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	<title>Comments on: Microsoft and Proprietary Windows Media Players: Cory Doctorow Responds</title>
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	<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/</link>
	<description>The latest gear, software, and techniques for electronic music production and performance</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/#comment-13696</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/#comment-13696</guid>
		<description>The thing is, Apple MP3 players look nice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing is, Apple MP3 players look nice.</p>
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		<title>By: Create Digital Music &#187; Liberate Portable Music Players: UMS, MTP, and Platform-Agnostic Drag-and-Drop Music Listening</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/#comment-13600</link>
		<dc:creator>Create Digital Music &#187; Liberate Portable Music Players: UMS, MTP, and Platform-Agnostic Drag-and-Drop Music Listening</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 04:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/#comment-13600</guid>
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		<title>By: Create Digital Music &#187; Alternative Music Distribution: Music on Sticks, Music on Mozilla, and Escaping iTunes Lock-in</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/#comment-13440</link>
		<dc:creator>Create Digital Music &#187; Alternative Music Distribution: Music on Sticks, Music on Mozilla, and Escaping iTunes Lock-in</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/#comment-13440</guid>
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	<item>
		<title>By: valis</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/#comment-13381</link>
		<dc:creator>valis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/#comment-13381</guid>
		<description>I think that with the  iTMS+iPod combination allowing the store to operate at very low profitability pretty much establishes  the terms that Jobs negotiated with the major labels (and their 'representatives') for any other online storefront seeking to enter the same business, at least for the near future.  The iTunes division can take this combination to the bank on iPod sales, but what is any other company to do with the same low margins? In the long run Amazon.com 'digital downloads' &#38; Google 'music' might actually be able to compete with iTMS profit margins based on the breadth of their business but I really don't see that as a compelling alternative.  Show me a large 'mainstream' online music shop where the niche material that they might offer isn't buried among all the other stuff in their database, or served up into a sidebar semi-randomly.  Relying on the iTunes search function, google &#38; yahoo for my future musical exporations doesn't exactly thrill me.  

In the physical world smaller businesses could offer music from a mainstream label just as easily as any Tower records just by ordering from a distributor, even if the small shop can't hit the same pricepoint based on volume.  The HUGE mainstream store often fails for the odd obscure side project of a band member or a specific soundtrack request that just happens to be on a major label, so small shops in the local area were there to help, often with someone who could build connections from that request into obscure independant music.  Independant releases are the small shop's bread &#38; butter, but where's Peter Gabriel's Passion on Beatport or Bleep?  Smaller online shops that tend to target ONLY their niche are great only if you're already looking for something they offer, as otherwise how do you find them?  

To a certain degree surfing XM and Online radio helps, but I have CD's in my collection I'd never have found if I had to sit &#38; listen through everything else in the same genre.  And since many of the smaller 'physical' shops have disappeared over the last 5-10 years it's not necessarily as easy to bump into that CD these days.  5 years ago Apple was still posturing themselves as the anti-DRM 'good guy' in the face of the evil MS 'longhorn' DRM that was making headlines.  Funny that Apple happens to be in the driver seat now, and is also using DRM to slave their OS to Intel hardware to boot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that with the  iTMS+iPod combination allowing the store to operate at very low profitability pretty much establishes  the terms that Jobs negotiated with the major labels (and their &#8216;representatives&#8217;) for any other online storefront seeking to enter the same business, at least for the near future.  The iTunes division can take this combination to the bank on iPod sales, but what is any other company to do with the same low margins? In the long run Amazon.com &#8216;digital downloads&#8217; &amp; Google &#8216;music&#8217; might actually be able to compete with iTMS profit margins based on the breadth of their business but I really don&#8217;t see that as a compelling alternative.  Show me a large &#8216;mainstream&#8217; online music shop where the niche material that they might offer isn&#8217;t buried among all the other stuff in their database, or served up into a sidebar semi-randomly.  Relying on the iTunes search function, google &amp; yahoo for my future musical exporations doesn&#8217;t exactly thrill me.  </p>
<p>In the physical world smaller businesses could offer music from a mainstream label just as easily as any Tower records just by ordering from a distributor, even if the small shop can&#8217;t hit the same pricepoint based on volume.  The HUGE mainstream store often fails for the odd obscure side project of a band member or a specific soundtrack request that just happens to be on a major label, so small shops in the local area were there to help, often with someone who could build connections from that request into obscure independant music.  Independant releases are the small shop&#8217;s bread &amp; butter, but where&#8217;s Peter Gabriel&#8217;s Passion on Beatport or Bleep?  Smaller online shops that tend to target ONLY their niche are great only if you&#8217;re already looking for something they offer, as otherwise how do you find them?  </p>
<p>To a certain degree surfing XM and Online radio helps, but I have CD&#8217;s in my collection I&#8217;d never have found if I had to sit &amp; listen through everything else in the same genre.  And since many of the smaller &#8216;physical&#8217; shops have disappeared over the last 5-10 years it&#8217;s not necessarily as easy to bump into that CD these days.  5 years ago Apple was still posturing themselves as the anti-DRM &#8216;good guy&#8217; in the face of the evil MS &#8216;longhorn&#8217; DRM that was making headlines.  Funny that Apple happens to be in the driver seat now, and is also using DRM to slave their OS to Intel hardware to boot.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Randall</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/#comment-13328</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Randall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/#comment-13328</guid>
		<description>I second that. 

"Hey, read my hack-ass sci-fi novella for free (now translated in to Pirate Speak!), look at these pretty mouse ears made out of bendy straws, then revel in the absolutely astonishing amount of misinformation I spout about copyright, a subject on which I know suprisingly little, but still manage to make a living with. Look! I made a pirate cape out of Mickey Mouse ears, and published it under a Creative Commons license!" 

Mr. Doctorow's opinion means pretty much nothing to me, and I've long ago given up trying to sift fact from fiction in his lengthy ramblings on copyright. I mean, like, shit. Peter, if you're gonna argue with someone, pick someone on your mental plane, at least. Picking a fight with Cory is like kicking a puppy. It's fun for a minute, but eventually the neighbors are gonna call the SPCA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I second that. </p>
<p>&#8220;Hey, read my hack-ass sci-fi novella for free (now translated in to Pirate Speak!), look at these pretty mouse ears made out of bendy straws, then revel in the absolutely astonishing amount of misinformation I spout about copyright, a subject on which I know suprisingly little, but still manage to make a living with. Look! I made a pirate cape out of Mickey Mouse ears, and published it under a Creative Commons license!&#8221; </p>
<p>Mr. Doctorow&#8217;s opinion means pretty much nothing to me, and I&#8217;ve long ago given up trying to sift fact from fiction in his lengthy ramblings on copyright. I mean, like, shit. Peter, if you&#8217;re gonna argue with someone, pick someone on your mental plane, at least. Picking a fight with Cory is like kicking a puppy. It&#8217;s fun for a minute, but eventually the neighbors are gonna call the SPCA.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Noich</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/#comment-13321</link>
		<dc:creator>Noich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 05:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/#comment-13321</guid>
		<description>"On a basic level, IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m not saying anything different than what Cory originally did"

I think the difference between you wrote and what Cory does is that you didn't reference something trivial and lame from Disney World or shamelessly plug your own books in your article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;On a basic level, IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m not saying anything different than what Cory originally did&#8221;</p>
<p>I think the difference between you wrote and what Cory does is that you didn&#8217;t reference something trivial and lame from Disney World or shamelessly plug your own books in your article.</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/#comment-13282</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 03:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/#comment-13282</guid>
		<description>I am anti-centralized control. Pro-open portable data formats. I will not buy into these DRM schemes. I am prepared to become a dinosaur and lose touch with the bulk of our unconscious unaware society. I'm tempted to throw everything away and go searching for a Buddhist temple in the Himalayas to sit and meditation or whatever it is they do.

I see no advantage to the consumer or average person to have some centralized authority locking up our culture in a tight container and extracting a toll (tomorrow your blood? or your first born?). It's called "The Totalitarian Tiptoe". They say if you slowly turn up the heat on a frog in water, it won't realize that it's getting cooked until it's too late. The name of the game is total control. Don't make any mistake about it. They are patient and they will say anything to get that control. Rev 1 is still open. Rev 2 is more restrictive but still open. Rev 3 even more restrictive. Add in favorable legislation to redefine customers as criminals. Now maybe in Revision #4 it's locked up tight and totally illegal. And now we have a few of the ingredients for tyranny and unrestricted abuse of monopoly power. Don't forget to add in a multimillion dollar smear campaign to redefine normal people and normal terms as terrorists and criminals.

Everyone has to make their own choice on these issues. They lost me and my dollars, and if they take away all the alternatives by hook and crook then I'll find another way to spend my time. You know right about now a long walk or bikeride in nature to reflect on the state of this world and society is sounding appealing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am anti-centralized control. Pro-open portable data formats. I will not buy into these DRM schemes. I am prepared to become a dinosaur and lose touch with the bulk of our unconscious unaware society. I&#8217;m tempted to throw everything away and go searching for a Buddhist temple in the Himalayas to sit and meditation or whatever it is they do.</p>
<p>I see no advantage to the consumer or average person to have some centralized authority locking up our culture in a tight container and extracting a toll (tomorrow your blood? or your first born?). It&#8217;s called &#8220;The Totalitarian Tiptoe&#8221;. They say if you slowly turn up the heat on a frog in water, it won&#8217;t realize that it&#8217;s getting cooked until it&#8217;s too late. The name of the game is total control. Don&#8217;t make any mistake about it. They are patient and they will say anything to get that control. Rev 1 is still open. Rev 2 is more restrictive but still open. Rev 3 even more restrictive. Add in favorable legislation to redefine customers as criminals. Now maybe in Revision #4 it&#8217;s locked up tight and totally illegal. And now we have a few of the ingredients for tyranny and unrestricted abuse of monopoly power. Don&#8217;t forget to add in a multimillion dollar smear campaign to redefine normal people and normal terms as terrorists and criminals.</p>
<p>Everyone has to make their own choice on these issues. They lost me and my dollars, and if they take away all the alternatives by hook and crook then I&#8217;ll find another way to spend my time. You know right about now a long walk or bikeride in nature to reflect on the state of this world and society is sounding appealing.</p>
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		<title>By: kokorozashi</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/#comment-13234</link>
		<dc:creator>kokorozashi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/#comment-13234</guid>
		<description>I agree the technical issues are vital... but not essential. They are symptoms and effects, not diseases and causes. Apple would be more than happy to sell unencumbered MP3 files if RIAA would allow it. Remember Apple doesn't make significant money from iTMS -- it's an iPod marketing exercise, not a revenue source. The proprietary file format is just an implementation detail of DRM in the age of DMCA. Is it good for musicians? Hell no. Customers will eventually be pissed off when they can't play the music they've bought, regardless of why. But, again, the root of the problem is RIAA, not Apple. I frankly don't think there is anything anyone can do about it. RIAA is too scared to do anything else but DRM no matter what anyone else says and customers haven't yet been burned massively. But when that happens, we'll see swift action, including the end of RIAA-as-we-know-it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree the technical issues are vital&#8230; but not essential. They are symptoms and effects, not diseases and causes. Apple would be more than happy to sell unencumbered MP3 files if RIAA would allow it. Remember Apple doesn&#8217;t make significant money from iTMS &#8212; it&#8217;s an iPod marketing exercise, not a revenue source. The proprietary file format is just an implementation detail of DRM in the age of DMCA. Is it good for musicians? Hell no. Customers will eventually be pissed off when they can&#8217;t play the music they&#8217;ve bought, regardless of why. But, again, the root of the problem is RIAA, not Apple. I frankly don&#8217;t think there is anything anyone can do about it. RIAA is too scared to do anything else but DRM no matter what anyone else says and customers haven&#8217;t yet been burned massively. But when that happens, we&#8217;ll see swift action, including the end of RIAA-as-we-know-it.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/#comment-13183</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/#comment-13183</guid>
		<description>It's worth noting that one of MS's standard tactics over the last decade has been to "adopt" an open or shared standard, add some proprietary spin to it, and thereby subvert and assert control over it. UMS/MTP isn't a picture-perfect case of this, but it's exactly the same mentality of coding "extensions" to a core technology which only work in Microsoft-land. While I agree there are many reasons to be suspicious of *both* Apple and MS in the evolving digital music world, Apple hasn't displayed such rapaciousness (at least more than sporadically) and in some small ways even works to mitigate it (at least outside of the music world).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s worth noting that one of MS&#8217;s standard tactics over the last decade has been to &#8220;adopt&#8221; an open or shared standard, add some proprietary spin to it, and thereby subvert and assert control over it. UMS/MTP isn&#8217;t a picture-perfect case of this, but it&#8217;s exactly the same mentality of coding &#8220;extensions&#8221; to a core technology which only work in Microsoft-land. While I agree there are many reasons to be suspicious of *both* Apple and MS in the evolving digital music world, Apple hasn&#8217;t displayed such rapaciousness (at least more than sporadically) and in some small ways even works to mitigate it (at least outside of the music world).</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Kirn</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/#comment-13165</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kirn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 18:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/06/19/microsoft-and-proprietary-windows-media-players-cory-doctorow-responds/#comment-13165</guid>
		<description>Well, Apple and Microsoft are smart enough to "coddle" in a way that directly benefits them. Without DRM, you could buy online music from any store for the iPod . . . and your music collection could come with you if you bought a new player from a new vendor. With Microsoft, you might be able to switch product vendors (from Creative Labs to Samsung, for instance), but you're still tied to Windows and Windows Media Player.

And the technical issues are really vital, because they determine to what extent users can choose between DRM'ed and non-DRM'ed music, whether they're locked into a player/delivery mechanism from a specific vendor, and how easy it is to choose non-DRM'ed music and alternative music vendors (online and off).

There was a time when the RIAA was the only part of the problem, but now I think it's fair to say that the RIAA *and* Apple *and* Microsoft have become a problem. And they're all benefiting from added control, whether or not music consumers and musicians are.

I don't think evangelizing MS and Apple will work, but I'm not sure evangelizing the RIAA is going to do much good, either. I think the advocacy window is musical consumers and the musicians themselves. Musicians aren't members of the RIAA, but they could, for instance, try to change the policies of groups that do represent musicians, like ASCAP. I think it should be possible to have strong copyright laws without handing over technological control to a few outlets, a move that's unlikely to benefit musicians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Apple and Microsoft are smart enough to &#8220;coddle&#8221; in a way that directly benefits them. Without DRM, you could buy online music from any store for the iPod . . . and your music collection could come with you if you bought a new player from a new vendor. With Microsoft, you might be able to switch product vendors (from Creative Labs to Samsung, for instance), but you&#8217;re still tied to Windows and Windows Media Player.</p>
<p>And the technical issues are really vital, because they determine to what extent users can choose between DRM&#8217;ed and non-DRM&#8217;ed music, whether they&#8217;re locked into a player/delivery mechanism from a specific vendor, and how easy it is to choose non-DRM&#8217;ed music and alternative music vendors (online and off).</p>
<p>There was a time when the RIAA was the only part of the problem, but now I think it&#8217;s fair to say that the RIAA *and* Apple *and* Microsoft have become a problem. And they&#8217;re all benefiting from added control, whether or not music consumers and musicians are.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think evangelizing MS and Apple will work, but I&#8217;m not sure evangelizing the RIAA is going to do much good, either. I think the advocacy window is musical consumers and the musicians themselves. Musicians aren&#8217;t members of the RIAA, but they could, for instance, try to change the policies of groups that do represent musicians, like ASCAP. I think it should be possible to have strong copyright laws without handing over technological control to a few outlets, a move that&#8217;s unlikely to benefit musicians.</p>
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