Tacky Rip-Off of Lemur Touch Interface in Software
That didn’t take long. A developer named Pablo Martin has shamelessly ripped off the screen design of JazzMutant’s Lemur multi-touch interface (distributed by Cycling ‘74):
Mono Touch Live
Via: Nice looking Lemur software clone - just $34 [Music thing]
The basic idea here is decent. Single-touch conventional touchscreens are extremely affordable these days; you can buy separate screens or add-ons that fit on your existing display starting at just a few hundred dollars, and it’d be a safe bet to say these displays will only get more plentiful. The Lemur touchscreen offers significantly higher-accuracy tracking of your fingers and lets you use multiple fingers at once, but that far higher level of expressivity comes at a much higher price.
But you can use a touchscreen with your existing software, or custom setups in software like Pd, Processing, Max/MSP, or Reaktor. Mono Touch Live has a fixed layout configured for routing MIDI to Ableton Live, with none of the flexibility of Lemur. (For a fixed layout, why not just use a traditional hardware box?)
Worst, though, this is a blatant (if poor) rip-off of every detail of the Lemur’s interface. And that’s just outright theft of intellectual property, even if a small business like JazzMutant is unable to sue. It’s wrong — and, frankly, it’s boring and uncreative. Charging money, even if it’s a small amount like US$35-55 as here, is totally ridiculous, as is the claim that this design is “patent pending.”
Do yourself a favor: get a touch screen if you want one, then set up an interface that works well for you, and don’t send a penny to this developer.
For an examination of the original Lemur, see my review for Keyboard, in which I talk both about the unique potential of the device and some of its shortcomings:
Lemur Review [Keyboard, March 2006]
21 Comments
Leave a CommentJohnny
but it’s ok to d/l music for free….
September 11, 2006 @ 11:45 am
Peter Kirn
Well, there are rip-offs, and there are rip-offs. He didn’t change the design at all. It sort of crosses that “sincerest form of flattery” line, particularly when he then tries to make money on it.
September 11, 2006 @ 11:58 am
Ed
Peter, do you own any Behringer gear?
September 11, 2006 @ 12:36 pm
cyphunk
Peter:
How unique can knob design be that you would look at the similarity in color tone and call it a ripoff? Having countrollers via touchscreen nothing new and calling it a rip-off is absurd, unless you are referring to the price of the lemur device.
September 11, 2006 @ 1:36 pm
Tom
I say good for him - he obviously fell in love with the Lemur but didn’t have €€€€€€, so made his own. It’s hardly like Behringer seeing an affordable £80 Boss effects pedal and making a £15 copy (which obviously they didn’t do, because the designs are so completely different…)
Perhaps Lemur could do a demo version which is mono-touch, much like the Nord G2 demo software?
September 11, 2006 @ 1:38 pm
Peter Kirn
It’s more than “similarity in color tone”. The controller choices, the shapes, the colors, the distinctive fills — basically everything you *could* copy, he did. And it is similar to some of the Behringer hardware rip-offs.
Look, if someone wants to clone the Lemur for their own purposes, more power to them. But they shouldn’t charge money for the results and expect us not to call them on it, the way a number of people called Behringer on it. (And in the case of Behringer, even, I think the situation is different … at least some of the hardware is basically the same to begin with. This is a direct clone of a *very* distinctive interface, so the fake Gucci bags on Canal Street are probably a more apt comparison.)
September 11, 2006 @ 2:12 pm
Senor Pantalones
i disagree — basic vector art interface styles like ableton or lemur aren’t novel at all. you can’t make a ui with such a minimal visual element set and call it your own “style.” it’s been done for years in all kinds of software.
your comparison of gucci bags completely misses the point. gucci (usually) produces an extremely stylized “skin” on an established functional design, the handbag. they add custom fabrics, logos, stitchwork, metals, etc. the bag design still consists of a folded pouch with fastener and a strap. those ripping it off are focusing on those elements.
ableton and lemur are using the ui equivalents of folded pouches with straps (e.g., no simulated depth, no rendered knobs or shadows). there’s no “ripping off” that design. it’s an established design pattern. you can say that they both have bright vibrant colors and transparent shapes, but the effective use of the device (low light, maximum visual information from a standing position) nearly dictates that.
anyway, thanks for posting, because you’ve given this guy and his great product some press, and now we all know about it :)
September 11, 2006 @ 4:01 pm
bathyscaaf
Low class. The Lemur designer must be ripping his/her hair out. All that work, and someone grabs it and signs their name on it. And wants money for it.
As far as the concept — competition, cheaper, etc — those are all good things. The execution, however, is foul. Would it be that hard change the look even a little bit? This isn’t downloading free songs — this is finding out someone is selling your songs and taking credit for writing the music.
September 11, 2006 @ 4:01 pm
Peter Kirn
Pantalones, I might agree on Ableton … indeed, Live resembles some earlier simple 2D interfaces. But this is another case. Take a look here:
http://cycling74.com/products/lemur
I think this is a surface-level rip-off, with none of the actual functional sophistication and absolutely nothing unique or valuable to add. Look at the radius on the rounded rectangles, the translucent fills, the bars to show level on the mixer, and even the function of the pads.
There are countless other ways to do this with basic vector art that look different. And, honestly, I’m not convinced the Lemur is the best solution, meaning I’m all the more keen to see some alternative designs.
September 11, 2006 @ 4:11 pm
David Cross
Here’s an A/B of the Mono Touch Live interface vs. an Ableton Live Lemur layout:
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=333970&highlight=#333970
September 11, 2006 @ 4:26 pm
Create Digital Music » Apple Sculpture, Lemur Touchscreen Ripped Off: Visual Comparisons of “Sincerest Form of Flattery”
[...] In the case of Lemur touchscreen versus Mono Touch, it’s pretty obvious the creator of the Mono Touch software just worked on cloning the exact layout of the Ableton Live template on the Lemur. David Cross points us to this comparison from the Ableton forums, as created by axou: [...]
September 11, 2006 @ 4:56 pm
velocipede
It’s too bad that the designer made the design so similar. The history of technological progress has often been about imitating a great invention at a lower price and making it available to the wider public. Innovators are frequently poor entrepreneurs.
Lemur should sue if their patents are violated. Many law firms will work for nothing until they win the case, in which case they take a large share of the proceeds. Lemur could end up owning this software.
Personally, though, I think the designer should take this cue to revamp and revise the software to get it out of intellectual property infringement territory.
September 11, 2006 @ 8:03 pm
Adrian Anders
Peter, you can’t protect a UI design. Perhaps if they violated one of JazzMutant’s software patents (which I personally don’t think SHOULD be protected), they would have something to get angry about. As is, I don’t think anyone would confuse their software product with the hardware/software combo that is Lemur. Honestly, a little competition would help spur JazzMutant to come up with ways of lowering costs (perhaps with a smaller feature set) in future products, as well as encourage further development of their UI to stay one step ahead of the biters.
Peter, I honestly doubt you would be that angry with some kid who rips of the UI of a moog or ARP synth for his SE creation. Likewise, this is a cheap software product styled after a very expensive hardware/software one and is nothing to get all up in arms about. Chill.
ATA
September 12, 2006 @ 1:17 am
DJ-GROBE
Hey boys, the intention no its ripoff the design of the greatlemur, on lemur you can create any layout you want. The layout i create its based of things i need for djing with ableton, and that are common to lemur and to djs users need.
About the design, on the pictures taked in the lcd, pictures show some thing very indentical but the things are different.
The original project born for just smple reason, the only way i can create cheap system with the layout i need its using software + touchscreen.Aditonal to that you have very portable controller, and very durable!
The concpet of use touch screen for control things not its new. Lemur show 2 things new, multitouchscreen and lego custom layout system.
The original intention no is make money, some guys tellmemonths ago when i show this for first time……..wow! well this can be profitable why not sell? and i follow that way, and now see this is a big error, for that reason i turn the project to free, you can see the site now.
Anyway i stay thing in the last day if continue with the project just for me or day 20 october make public.
I now want recive rowses, but i no want see mor ecomplaints about this………..so its very possible i colse the project like public project…..
I are the first after lemur to try create midi controller touchscreen…. practical controller, and se the price to pay for that is very high.
If somebody think the design its copy of lemur, that its wrong, you can see detailed picture here:
http://www.monotouchlive.com/screenx.jpg
My design can be compared more with TETRIS and no with lemur.
Anyway any button created with nice look, and showed on touch screen, be compared inmediatly with lemur.
Any layout created for ableton can be inmediatly compared with lemur…its simple reason for that, the way to djing with ableton its only one or possible 2, and controlls needed are the same.
Like mixers, have sliders and eqs etc etc
Or all tcs have common things, or all cd players have common things, or all computers, or allpencils or any uisefull think created by any man.
Bets regards
DJ-Grobe
September 16, 2006 @ 4:07 am
DJ-GROBE
OH SORRY FOR MY BAD ENGLISH !! :)
An typo errors, i write this after long night playing on club iwth ableton + my monotuchlive : )
Best regards.
September 16, 2006 @ 4:08 am
cyphunk
“Look at the radius on the rounded rectangles, the translucent fills”
lol. okay, this language would work when arguing about trademark ripoffs but imo ui design can not or should not be trademarked.
September 17, 2006 @ 8:14 pm
Create Digital Music » Mono Touch Live Lemur Clone Now Free
[...] You can read DJ Grobe’s comments on the original story. Basically, he says he didn’t originally intend to make money off of it and has removed the price. He then goes on to make a very strange argument, that his interface is closer to Tetris than Lemur. That’s just silly; as others have pointed out the button-for-button layout of the Lemur template, down to the color of individual buttons, was translated into his design. You can see for yourself, side by side. But I am happy that he’s making this free. [...]
September 17, 2006 @ 9:31 pm
happyjourney
why don’t yall get off the man’s back. he’s giving away a free program that looks kick a*& to me. yet all i see is people jumping allover how it looks the same as lemur. so what. It’s beautiful. I can’t wait to get a touch screen and hook this thing up to live and turn out the lights in my shack. it’s gonna look like i’m playing with a lite brite!
October 6, 2006 @ 12:36 am
ITP Blogs » reprise
[...] I had previously discussed the interface and a lot of things I would like the instrument to have. I thought I should mention a few existing products. We can have the reason model in which it recreated the physical interface or the or you can have lemur touch interface: [...]
October 10, 2007 @ 9:32 am
Michael
Hey Peter !! before write about somthing, you should test, just test before write.
MonoTouchLIve its really awesome tool !!
Thakyou Dj Grobe
October 22, 2007 @ 10:27 am
MidiMeek
midimeek.blogspot.com
Fully customizable DIY lemur for under $40 and includes a virtual monome. All you need is a wiimote, infrared light source, and max/msp.
Currently working on a version that uses TUIO for multitouch support and a plexiglass overlay with an infrared led array. This would make a true customizable multitouch lemur without the need for a glove.
March 27, 2008 @ 5:01 pm
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