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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Loudness War&#8221;: Music Over-Compression, Demonstrated on YouTube</title>
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	<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/</link>
	<description>The latest gear, software, and techniques for electronic music production and performance</description>
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		<title>By: Tobias Anderson</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/comment-page-1/#comment-834669</link>
		<dc:creator>Tobias Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 03:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/#comment-834669</guid>
		<description>As a  mastering engineer, it has become increasingly disconcerting to both work on and listen back to much of todays&#039; music.  Distorted, compressed &amp; messy sounding to say the least!  However, 2 points I must make:  

Firstly,  compression and brick-wall limiting are NOT the only factors involved in making a record loud and / or distorted.  The clipping of the ME&#039;s ADC (analogue-to-digital-converter) is the most aggressive   form of distortion you will hear on todays&#039; loud records.  Digital limiters are generally (hopefully) not cranked too much (between 1-3db), but rather the load should be spread across more than 1 unit, making the effect less obvious than if the same amount of gain reduction had been employed with a single unit.  The signal is then fed back to the ADC, and &#039;clipped&#039; to achieve the final loudness increase.  The maximum peak level of digital audio is 0dbfs, however when clipped, the incoming audio exceeds this value (up to 6db, maybe more in ridiculous cases!) and the loudest peaks of the music are literally shaved, or &#039;squared&#039; off.  With the upper end ADC&#039;s, this process can be fairly transparent, if used &#039;sensibly&#039; (if that is possible..) however when abused, it sounds truly awful as you all can hear.  One example (many are available :) that springs to mind is the Foo Fighters&#039; Nothing Left To Lose album.  Every time the snare is hit, the digital distortion is unbearable, the high frequencies sound grainy and harsh ect ect.  However, audibly, the effect of clipping differs greatly from the effect of brick wall limiting, which can, as previously mentioned, and subjectively speaking, benefit or compliment a particular style or genre of music. Dance, hip-hop &amp; drum n bass coming to mind especially.  This processing DOES impart a certain sense of power to the sound which is very different than simply using compression alone on the mix buss or on the individual elements in the mix.  

Secondly, music is never &#039;cut&#039; or HPF&#039;d (high-pass filtered) at 80hz.  40-45hz maybe, a gradual roll-off from 80hz-20-30hz probable, but there is still a lot of important musical information below 80hz that is needed in modern music, even if it can&#039;t be reproduced by poor consumer listening equipment.  The 60hz(ish) peak in a hip-hop kick for example, would sound completely wrong and hollow if the fundamental frequency lived in the 100hz range for example. I can&#039;t think of a commercially released modern record that has been released with very little or no musical information below 80hz, not impossible, but certainly not the norm by any stretch.  Lastly,  having a &#039;pre -mastering&#039; chain is really not a good idea, and will probably do more harm than good in most situations, unless: the listening environment is very good and the engineer is very skilled.  Using a particular compressor for a desired character on the mix buss prior to mastering, is a very valid &#039;mix&#039; technique, but again the engineer must be very competent for this to be worthwhile.          

I hope this has shed some additional light on the loudness war for you all.  

If you would like to express your dislike for the practice, in hope of eventually stopping it, please visit and register for free at

www.dynamicrange.de

Toby Anderson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a  mastering engineer, it has become increasingly disconcerting to both work on and listen back to much of todays&#8217; music.  Distorted, compressed &amp; messy sounding to say the least!  However, 2 points I must make:  </p>
<p>Firstly,  compression and brick-wall limiting are NOT the only factors involved in making a record loud and / or distorted.  The clipping of the ME&#8217;s ADC (analogue-to-digital-converter) is the most aggressive   form of distortion you will hear on todays&#8217; loud records.  Digital limiters are generally (hopefully) not cranked too much (between 1-3db), but rather the load should be spread across more than 1 unit, making the effect less obvious than if the same amount of gain reduction had been employed with a single unit.  The signal is then fed back to the ADC, and &#8216;clipped&#8217; to achieve the final loudness increase.  The maximum peak level of digital audio is 0dbfs, however when clipped, the incoming audio exceeds this value (up to 6db, maybe more in ridiculous cases!) and the loudest peaks of the music are literally shaved, or &#8217;squared&#8217; off.  With the upper end ADC&#8217;s, this process can be fairly transparent, if used &#8217;sensibly&#8217; (if that is possible..) however when abused, it sounds truly awful as you all can hear.  One example (many are available :) that springs to mind is the Foo Fighters&#8217; Nothing Left To Lose album.  Every time the snare is hit, the digital distortion is unbearable, the high frequencies sound grainy and harsh ect ect.  However, audibly, the effect of clipping differs greatly from the effect of brick wall limiting, which can, as previously mentioned, and subjectively speaking, benefit or compliment a particular style or genre of music. Dance, hip-hop &amp; drum n bass coming to mind especially.  This processing DOES impart a certain sense of power to the sound which is very different than simply using compression alone on the mix buss or on the individual elements in the mix.  </p>
<p>Secondly, music is never &#8216;cut&#8217; or HPF&#8217;d (high-pass filtered) at 80hz.  40-45hz maybe, a gradual roll-off from 80hz-20-30hz probable, but there is still a lot of important musical information below 80hz that is needed in modern music, even if it can&#8217;t be reproduced by poor consumer listening equipment.  The 60hz(ish) peak in a hip-hop kick for example, would sound completely wrong and hollow if the fundamental frequency lived in the 100hz range for example. I can&#8217;t think of a commercially released modern record that has been released with very little or no musical information below 80hz, not impossible, but certainly not the norm by any stretch.  Lastly,  having a &#8216;pre -mastering&#8217; chain is really not a good idea, and will probably do more harm than good in most situations, unless: the listening environment is very good and the engineer is very skilled.  Using a particular compressor for a desired character on the mix buss prior to mastering, is a very valid &#8216;mix&#8217; technique, but again the engineer must be very competent for this to be worthwhile.          </p>
<p>I hope this has shed some additional light on the loudness war for you all.  </p>
<p>If you would like to express your dislike for the practice, in hope of eventually stopping it, please visit and register for free at</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dynamicrange.de" rel="nofollow">http://www.dynamicrange.de</a></p>
<p>Toby Anderson</p>
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		<title>By: tickle</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/comment-page-1/#comment-565800</link>
		<dc:creator>tickle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/#comment-565800</guid>
		<description>As far as im concerned,
compression is not the culprit, 
its a dynaamic aand creative techniqqque,
depending on your genre/instruments/implementation.
Yes everything is maxed.
But what isnt.
Its not just a trait in mastering/producing...
Have a look around.
Compression and limiting are great tecchniques when used right, the same as EQ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as im concerned,<br />
compression is not the culprit,<br />
its a dynaamic aand creative techniqqque,<br />
depending on your genre/instruments/implementation.<br />
Yes everything is maxed.<br />
But what isnt.<br />
Its not just a trait in mastering/producing&#8230;<br />
Have a look around.<br />
Compression and limiting are great tecchniques when used right, the same as EQ.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: bassnode</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/comment-page-1/#comment-398403</link>
		<dc:creator>bassnode</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2008 03:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/#comment-398403</guid>
		<description>Some sane people in The Industry trying to stop the madness: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.turnmeup.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;TurnMeUp&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some sane people in The Industry trying to stop the madness: <a href="http://www.turnmeup.org" rel="nofollow">TurnMeUp</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: James Sanders</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/comment-page-1/#comment-385104</link>
		<dc:creator>James Sanders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/#comment-385104</guid>
		<description>Let me start off by saying that I am but a babe in mixing/recording, and I am only doing home based stuff right now.  But I have found that my goal tends to be to first, recreate exactly what the musicians were playing...as they played it.  Then work with the musicians to get the exact sound that they want.  I&#039;ve had good results with a soft compression at a moderate to low thresholds.  The biggest problem I have is seperating sounds in the same range (electric guitar and crash/cymbals) but this is usually correctable with EQing.  I am doing all my spacialization in the mixing, is this the way to go or should I wait and do it during the mastering?  

The biggest thing to me the final product:  Have you created something that does justice to the musicians that created it and is in a format that someone else would want to listen to.  I yield to experience so feel free to correct my oversights and techniques.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me start off by saying that I am but a babe in mixing/recording, and I am only doing home based stuff right now.  But I have found that my goal tends to be to first, recreate exactly what the musicians were playing&#8230;as they played it.  Then work with the musicians to get the exact sound that they want.  I&#8217;ve had good results with a soft compression at a moderate to low thresholds.  The biggest problem I have is seperating sounds in the same range (electric guitar and crash/cymbals) but this is usually correctable with EQing.  I am doing all my spacialization in the mixing, is this the way to go or should I wait and do it during the mastering?  </p>
<p>The biggest thing to me the final product:  Have you created something that does justice to the musicians that created it and is in a format that someone else would want to listen to.  I yield to experience so feel free to correct my oversights and techniques.</p>
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		<title>By: Create Digital Music &#187; Elton John to World: Tear This Internet Down!</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/comment-page-1/#comment-316058</link>
		<dc:creator>Create Digital Music &#187; Elton John to World: Tear This Internet Down!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/#comment-316058</guid>
		<description>[...] While we&#8217;re at it, Bob Dylan turned out to be right, too &#8212; modern records do have sound all over them. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] While we&#8217;re at it, Bob Dylan turned out to be right, too &#8212; modern records do have sound all over them. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Patuch</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/comment-page-1/#comment-234717</link>
		<dc:creator>Patuch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 19:25:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/#comment-234717</guid>
		<description>I play and record and have done so for many years, strickly home base stuff. This started as cassette 4-track and now CuBase digital. I too fell victim of over compression thinking that is the proper technique in mixing. Actually, it was the stuff I&#039;ve done without the over compression which seemed to always have more life inside and coming out.
Noting the fact that this type of recording procedure has taken place in music today, I can only think about the certain people I know who listen to the style of music which is an incredibly nasty screeching bombardment of sounds they consider good music. This arrangement is then taken to the extreme with high decible, in your face energy. 
I suppose what I am saying is that there is a sector of market for this type of stuff. It sells to those people who know nothing about creating music, either from the instrument and certainly nothing known in the mixing field. It&#039;s all of what they DON&#039;T know which makes it to the record company&#039;s advantage to perform this style of production. As stated about fast food, this too is just that and some people eat it up. But is it wrong or is it a way of hiding what is truly lacking? And that just might be real human soul.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I play and record and have done so for many years, strickly home base stuff. This started as cassette 4-track and now CuBase digital. I too fell victim of over compression thinking that is the proper technique in mixing. Actually, it was the stuff I&#8217;ve done without the over compression which seemed to always have more life inside and coming out.<br />
Noting the fact that this type of recording procedure has taken place in music today, I can only think about the certain people I know who listen to the style of music which is an incredibly nasty screeching bombardment of sounds they consider good music. This arrangement is then taken to the extreme with high decible, in your face energy.<br />
I suppose what I am saying is that there is a sector of market for this type of stuff. It sells to those people who know nothing about creating music, either from the instrument and certainly nothing known in the mixing field. It&#8217;s all of what they DON&#8217;T know which makes it to the record company&#8217;s advantage to perform this style of production. As stated about fast food, this too is just that and some people eat it up. But is it wrong or is it a way of hiding what is truly lacking? And that just might be real human soul.</p>
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		<title>By: Pan Skeptic</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/comment-page-1/#comment-212468</link>
		<dc:creator>Pan Skeptic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/#comment-212468</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s beginning to filter through. A fight broke out on Amazon.com about over-compression on the SACD version of the Moody Blues&#039; &quot;Days of Future Passed.&quot; Some can hear it, some can&#039;t. But at least they&#039;re talking about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s beginning to filter through. A fight broke out on Amazon.com about over-compression on the SACD version of the Moody Blues&#8217; &#8220;Days of Future Passed.&#8221; Some can hear it, some can&#8217;t. But at least they&#8217;re talking about it.</p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/comment-page-1/#comment-182380</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 11:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/#comment-182380</guid>
		<description>Recordings are probably over compressed in mixing not mastering so you can&#039;t do a thing about this as a mastering engineer</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recordings are probably over compressed in mixing not mastering so you can&#8217;t do a thing about this as a mastering engineer</p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/comment-page-1/#comment-182358</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 10:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/#comment-182358</guid>
		<description>I think this over compression has come from people wanting big sounding crunchy sustaining drums.
   Old motown and soul recordings have very compressed drums like this, but just the drums not the whole record.
    
    Today digital sound with sampled and plug-in instruments and les live recording of real instruments, everything can sound sterile and flat.

 So people over compress to get some life into the recording. But this is trying to bring out something that is not there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this over compression has come from people wanting big sounding crunchy sustaining drums.<br />
   Old motown and soul recordings have very compressed drums like this, but just the drums not the whole record.</p>
<p>    Today digital sound with sampled and plug-in instruments and les live recording of real instruments, everything can sound sterile and flat.</p>
<p> So people over compress to get some life into the recording. But this is trying to bring out something that is not there.</p>
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		<title>By: The Audio Fool : Youtube on the Loudness War</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/comment-page-1/#comment-181082</link>
		<dc:creator>The Audio Fool : Youtube on the Loudness War</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 19:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/#comment-181082</guid>
		<description>[...] http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/" rel="nofollow">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/</a> [...]</p>
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