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	<title>Comments on: Meet the Anti-Piracy Vigilantes</title>
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	<description>The latest gear, software, and techniques for electronic music production and performance</description>
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		<title>By: EMIT Radio .: blogmit &#187; Blog Archive &#187; BanPiracy sÃ³lo cuenta con Waves Audio en su cruzada</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/09/meet-the-anti-piracy-vigilantes/comment-page-2/#comment-328600</link>
		<dc:creator>EMIT Radio .: blogmit &#187; Blog Archive &#187; BanPiracy sÃ³lo cuenta con Waves Audio en su cruzada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 16:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/09/meet-the-anti-piracy-vigilantes/#comment-328600</guid>
		<description>[...] Muchos criticaron estas formas de actuar. Entre ellos estaba nuestro amigo Peter Kirn -de Create Digital Music-, que las tildÃ³ de mafiosas, y desafiÃ³ a BanPiracy a demostrar que hay alguien mÃ¡s aparte de Waves detrÃ¡s de todo esto. La respuesta de BanPiracy ha llegado a travÃ©s de la firma de relaciones pÃºblicas Strick and Company, especializada en defender a compaÃ±Ã­as en crisis como Halliburton. Y la rÃ©plica de Peter Kirn tambiÃ©n, a travÃ©s de su propio blog. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Muchos criticaron estas formas de actuar. Entre ellos estaba nuestro amigo Peter Kirn -de Create Digital Music-, que las tildÃ³ de mafiosas, y desafiÃ³ a BanPiracy a demostrar que hay alguien mÃ¡s aparte de Waves detrÃ¡s de todo esto. La respuesta de BanPiracy ha llegado a travÃ©s de la firma de relaciones pÃºblicas Strick and Company, especializada en defender a compaÃ±Ã­as en crisis como Halliburton. Y la rÃ©plica de Peter Kirn tambiÃ©n, a travÃ©s de su propio blog. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: small studio owner</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/09/meet-the-anti-piracy-vigilantes/comment-page-2/#comment-324042</link>
		<dc:creator>small studio owner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 00:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/09/meet-the-anti-piracy-vigilantes/#comment-324042</guid>
		<description>i would be fuming mad if an undercover civilian came into my studio for such a reason. only police have the right to do such a thing, if even them. 

when i have a commercial studio, i will have a disclaimer for all clients:

 there is a $20,000 penalty if you book time for reasons other than we have agreed upon, specifically if you come to my studio to bust me for piracy, or are affiliated with ban piracy in any way. 

 ill put it in small print at the bottom of the forms you must sign to book studio time. that has to be legal, its what all the big companies do (&quot;hey you signed it&quot;). 

i dont agree with piracy, but this is effed, and i will never buy waves plug-ins because of this. there are plenty of great alternatives these days, like wave arts etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i would be fuming mad if an undercover civilian came into my studio for such a reason. only police have the right to do such a thing, if even them. </p>
<p>when i have a commercial studio, i will have a disclaimer for all clients:</p>
<p> there is a $20,000 penalty if you book time for reasons other than we have agreed upon, specifically if you come to my studio to bust me for piracy, or are affiliated with ban piracy in any way. </p>
<p> ill put it in small print at the bottom of the forms you must sign to book studio time. that has to be legal, its what all the big companies do (&#8220;hey you signed it&#8221;). </p>
<p>i dont agree with piracy, but this is effed, and i will never buy waves plug-ins because of this. there are plenty of great alternatives these days, like wave arts etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Create Digital Music &#187; Studio Busted by Waves Anti-Piracy Police Shares Experience</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/09/meet-the-anti-piracy-vigilantes/comment-page-2/#comment-316256</link>
		<dc:creator>Create Digital Music &#187; Studio Busted by Waves Anti-Piracy Police Shares Experience</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/09/meet-the-anti-piracy-vigilantes/#comment-316256</guid>
		<description>[...] We asked to hear from some actual studios targeted by plug-in maker Waves&#8217; anti-piracy police (aka &#8220;banpiracy.com&#8221;). Here&#8217;s one report from Nick Buxton, via comments: I havenâ€™t read all the comments but wanted to add our experience; all our recording software is legal, we use uad plugs but wanted to see how waves worked; couldnâ€™t get a demo version, so tried out a â€œcopyâ€ on personal projects; decided what we already had was better so decided not to buy; but didnâ€™t erase the â€œcopyâ€; stupid; now maybe we were denounced, although since we didnâ€™t use it on any commercial projects, this is not likely; whoever is behind this, got a court order by claiming that we advertised wavelab on our website, which was true, and that wavelab belonged to Waves, which is not; result, visit from a court officer, examination of our computer, legal proceedings; now we could fight this; false information for a court order, no proof we used the software, we are a tiny company; etc etcâ€¦ but this costs legal fees, time, stress; so we are considering taking up the offered â€œsolutionâ€, ie buy the plugs, probably have to pay some legal fees, but end of story; i am making no excuses; we were wrong; but this does not seem to me the best way to sell your product [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] We asked to hear from some actual studios targeted by plug-in maker Waves&#8217; anti-piracy police (aka &#8220;banpiracy.com&#8221;). Here&#8217;s one report from Nick Buxton, via comments: I havenâ€™t read all the comments but wanted to add our experience; all our recording software is legal, we use uad plugs but wanted to see how waves worked; couldnâ€™t get a demo version, so tried out a â€œcopyâ€ on personal projects; decided what we already had was better so decided not to buy; but didnâ€™t erase the â€œcopyâ€; stupid; now maybe we were denounced, although since we didnâ€™t use it on any commercial projects, this is not likely; whoever is behind this, got a court order by claiming that we advertised wavelab on our website, which was true, and that wavelab belonged to Waves, which is not; result, visit from a court officer, examination of our computer, legal proceedings; now we could fight this; false information for a court order, no proof we used the software, we are a tiny company; etc etcâ€¦ but this costs legal fees, time, stress; so we are considering taking up the offered â€œsolutionâ€, ie buy the plugs, probably have to pay some legal fees, but end of story; i am making no excuses; we were wrong; but this does not seem to me the best way to sell your product [...]</p>
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		<title>By: nick buxton</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/09/meet-the-anti-piracy-vigilantes/comment-page-2/#comment-312793</link>
		<dc:creator>nick buxton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 16:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/09/meet-the-anti-piracy-vigilantes/#comment-312793</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t read all the comments but wanted to add our experience; all our recording software is legal, we use uad plugs but wanted to see how waves worked; couldn&#039;t get a demo version, so tried out a &quot;copy&quot; on personal projects; decided what we already had was better so decided not to buy; but didn&#039;t erase the &quot;copy&quot;; stupid; now maybe we were denounced, although since we didn&#039;t use it on any commercial projects, this is not likely; whoever is behind this, got a court order by claiming that we advertised wavelab on our website, which was true, and that wavelab belonged to Waves, which is not; result, visit from a court officer, examination of our computer, legal proceedings; now we could fight this; false information for a court order, no proof we used the software, we are a tiny company; etc etc... but this costs legal fees, time, stress; so we are considering taking up the offered &quot;solution&quot;, ie buy the plugs, probably have to pay some legal fees, but end of story; i am making no excuses; we were wrong; but this does not seem to me the best way to sell your product;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read all the comments but wanted to add our experience; all our recording software is legal, we use uad plugs but wanted to see how waves worked; couldn&#8217;t get a demo version, so tried out a &#8220;copy&#8221; on personal projects; decided what we already had was better so decided not to buy; but didn&#8217;t erase the &#8220;copy&#8221;; stupid; now maybe we were denounced, although since we didn&#8217;t use it on any commercial projects, this is not likely; whoever is behind this, got a court order by claiming that we advertised wavelab on our website, which was true, and that wavelab belonged to Waves, which is not; result, visit from a court officer, examination of our computer, legal proceedings; now we could fight this; false information for a court order, no proof we used the software, we are a tiny company; etc etc&#8230; but this costs legal fees, time, stress; so we are considering taking up the offered &#8220;solution&#8221;, ie buy the plugs, probably have to pay some legal fees, but end of story; i am making no excuses; we were wrong; but this does not seem to me the best way to sell your product;</p>
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		<title>By: Hawthorn</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/09/meet-the-anti-piracy-vigilantes/comment-page-2/#comment-299389</link>
		<dc:creator>Hawthorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Nov 2007 04:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/09/meet-the-anti-piracy-vigilantes/#comment-299389</guid>
		<description>I would expect several things to happen, some good, some not so good.

There will probably be a slight uptick in the use of legitimate software instead of pirated software, mostly just due to public awareness from this news issue, which is a good thing.

People who switch software will mostly likely choose any product on the market BUT Waves, losing that company far more money than they will ever gain from their handful of lawsuits.

Studios are businesses too, as it turns out, and they do not take industrial espionage lightly.  The days of the casual studio tour showing &quot;the works&quot; will come to a close.  Prospective clients will be vetted before the day of their appointment, or kept in the reception room and shown some gold records.

Enlightened, intelligent companies with good customer relationships and fair pricing will continue to gain market share, while the litigious rear guard fights its twilight war against a dwindling pool of users.

BanPiracy will eventually pick the wrong victim or push their tactics too far, and find themselves in a world of trouble with the courts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would expect several things to happen, some good, some not so good.</p>
<p>There will probably be a slight uptick in the use of legitimate software instead of pirated software, mostly just due to public awareness from this news issue, which is a good thing.</p>
<p>People who switch software will mostly likely choose any product on the market BUT Waves, losing that company far more money than they will ever gain from their handful of lawsuits.</p>
<p>Studios are businesses too, as it turns out, and they do not take industrial espionage lightly.  The days of the casual studio tour showing &#8220;the works&#8221; will come to a close.  Prospective clients will be vetted before the day of their appointment, or kept in the reception room and shown some gold records.</p>
<p>Enlightened, intelligent companies with good customer relationships and fair pricing will continue to gain market share, while the litigious rear guard fights its twilight war against a dwindling pool of users.</p>
<p>BanPiracy will eventually pick the wrong victim or push their tactics too far, and find themselves in a world of trouble with the courts.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/09/meet-the-anti-piracy-vigilantes/comment-page-2/#comment-297574</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 23:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/09/meet-the-anti-piracy-vigilantes/#comment-297574</guid>
		<description>I think it is important to understand that banpiracy.com is being paid on settled cases (at least that is what I heard in the video).  That is exactly how a collections agency operates.  They have an incentive to settle cases, be they through a settlement or legal actions.  

Now there seems to be no information regarding the number of successfully prosecuted cases, so I don&#039;t know if they have actually had any.  My guess is they are relying heavily on settlements to bankroll any litigation they may have to deal with.  I would think that they are making the settlements &quot;affordable&quot; meaning slightly cheaper than having to go to litigation.  This is a tactic I see commonly used in other IP cases.  The defendant would rather pay a small licensing fee, and penalties, rather than pay legal fees, and possibly face loosing the case.

Now with having said that, there is no reason that banpiracy.com has any real onus to take care in building a good case.  The mere threat of pending litigation could be enough to scare a studio into paying up, even if no crime were committed.  Once a small number of studios decides to stand up to them, they will need to start fabricating cases, and result to extortion to stay in business.

So while what banpricay.com is doing is not illegal, it opens up the strong possibility for abuse.  Any evidence they collect would probably not be admissible in court, but since they probably never get to court, it really doesn&#039;t matter.

I&#039;ve seen companies like banpiracy.com in many other industries.  In the end, they cause some harm, make some money for themselves, and eventually go away when their business model no longer is profitable (which isn&#039;t usually very long).  Most companies in most industries would rather have strong PR, than deal in seedy ventures like these.  

Keep in mind, while piracy is a problem, most software companies do not want to resort to extreme measures like this, and risk loosing potential customers.

In the end banpiracy.com will fade away.  If they are smart they will do so before they start bring false accusations, but only time will tell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is important to understand that banpiracy.com is being paid on settled cases (at least that is what I heard in the video).  That is exactly how a collections agency operates.  They have an incentive to settle cases, be they through a settlement or legal actions.  </p>
<p>Now there seems to be no information regarding the number of successfully prosecuted cases, so I don&#8217;t know if they have actually had any.  My guess is they are relying heavily on settlements to bankroll any litigation they may have to deal with.  I would think that they are making the settlements &#8220;affordable&#8221; meaning slightly cheaper than having to go to litigation.  This is a tactic I see commonly used in other IP cases.  The defendant would rather pay a small licensing fee, and penalties, rather than pay legal fees, and possibly face loosing the case.</p>
<p>Now with having said that, there is no reason that banpiracy.com has any real onus to take care in building a good case.  The mere threat of pending litigation could be enough to scare a studio into paying up, even if no crime were committed.  Once a small number of studios decides to stand up to them, they will need to start fabricating cases, and result to extortion to stay in business.</p>
<p>So while what banpricay.com is doing is not illegal, it opens up the strong possibility for abuse.  Any evidence they collect would probably not be admissible in court, but since they probably never get to court, it really doesn&#8217;t matter.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen companies like banpiracy.com in many other industries.  In the end, they cause some harm, make some money for themselves, and eventually go away when their business model no longer is profitable (which isn&#8217;t usually very long).  Most companies in most industries would rather have strong PR, than deal in seedy ventures like these.  </p>
<p>Keep in mind, while piracy is a problem, most software companies do not want to resort to extreme measures like this, and risk loosing potential customers.</p>
<p>In the end banpiracy.com will fade away.  If they are smart they will do so before they start bring false accusations, but only time will tell.</p>
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		<title>By: Current</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/09/meet-the-anti-piracy-vigilantes/comment-page-2/#comment-289678</link>
		<dc:creator>Current</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 05:55:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/09/meet-the-anti-piracy-vigilantes/#comment-289678</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d love to see how many artists come out and say HEY! Our tracks are only $.50 instead of .99 because the studio we selected used crackd warez for our final mix.

Organizations like this exist to protect...
I guess you think b2b is bad too huh?

The way a lot of you are talking is similar to a Chinese company crying because there are watchdogs who noticed the lead in the toys you manufacture and now they are CSI:Mattel??

please get the fuck off the net</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d love to see how many artists come out and say HEY! Our tracks are only $.50 instead of .99 because the studio we selected used crackd warez for our final mix.</p>
<p>Organizations like this exist to protect&#8230;<br />
I guess you think b2b is bad too huh?</p>
<p>The way a lot of you are talking is similar to a Chinese company crying because there are watchdogs who noticed the lead in the toys you manufacture and now they are CSI:Mattel??</p>
<p>please get the fuck off the net</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Dri</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/09/meet-the-anti-piracy-vigilantes/comment-page-2/#comment-289066</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Dri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 07:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/09/meet-the-anti-piracy-vigilantes/#comment-289066</guid>
		<description>PS, i love that video. Mike David is such an easy target. Public spokes-people should actually be able to communicate. What an awkward bundle of out of place cliche and buzzword assembly. I was half expecting his little friend, who kept staring into the camera, to start rapping.

We have a War On Terror, and a Ban on Piracy. What next, a caution on infringement? A stern finger waggle on file sharing? Are these wannabe Bobba Fett of Copyright going to get cool uniforms? Is Jerry Bruckheimer writing a new crime show for them as we speak? CSI: VST??? What about Law &amp; Order: Software Division???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS, i love that video. Mike David is such an easy target. Public spokes-people should actually be able to communicate. What an awkward bundle of out of place cliche and buzzword assembly. I was half expecting his little friend, who kept staring into the camera, to start rapping.</p>
<p>We have a War On Terror, and a Ban on Piracy. What next, a caution on infringement? A stern finger waggle on file sharing? Are these wannabe Bobba Fett of Copyright going to get cool uniforms? Is Jerry Bruckheimer writing a new crime show for them as we speak? CSI: VST??? What about Law &amp; Order: Software Division???</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Dri</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/09/meet-the-anti-piracy-vigilantes/comment-page-2/#comment-289043</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Dri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 06:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/09/meet-the-anti-piracy-vigilantes/#comment-289043</guid>
		<description>Peter Kearney made some interesting points above about the validity of that whole &quot;you wouldn&#039;t steal a car&quot; analogy per the replication of the end product, and the main cost of software is development. Its a different business model and im quite tired of such unimaginative analogies delivered with almost Gospel fury. 

Also, i think we can all at least meet on common ground to consider that people who WILL buy and people who WILL NOT buy are quite strong demographics. The people who MIGHT buy are the ones that need to be encouraged. For me, I cant even IMAGINE pirating Ableton, i quite simply buy it and rely on it to do what it should, occasionally dialing home to check for upgrades, but i would consider moving to Cubase if they suddenly hired storm troopers and made people feel like they are being watched. 

PS, Im getting rid of the couple of Waves plugins i own, and am moving to the excellent TC suite of plugins. Its not much, but i think in a market where everyone is making relatively equivalent quality software, i can put my money on the side of companies i like more. See ya waves! Never did much like your Rverb anyway :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter Kearney made some interesting points above about the validity of that whole &#8220;you wouldn&#8217;t steal a car&#8221; analogy per the replication of the end product, and the main cost of software is development. Its a different business model and im quite tired of such unimaginative analogies delivered with almost Gospel fury. </p>
<p>Also, i think we can all at least meet on common ground to consider that people who WILL buy and people who WILL NOT buy are quite strong demographics. The people who MIGHT buy are the ones that need to be encouraged. For me, I cant even IMAGINE pirating Ableton, i quite simply buy it and rely on it to do what it should, occasionally dialing home to check for upgrades, but i would consider moving to Cubase if they suddenly hired storm troopers and made people feel like they are being watched. </p>
<p>PS, Im getting rid of the couple of Waves plugins i own, and am moving to the excellent TC suite of plugins. Its not much, but i think in a market where everyone is making relatively equivalent quality software, i can put my money on the side of companies i like more. See ya waves! Never did much like your Rverb anyway :P</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Music News &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Meet the Anti-Piracy Vigilantes</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/09/meet-the-anti-piracy-vigilantes/comment-page-2/#comment-288083</link>
		<dc:creator>Music News &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Meet the Anti-Piracy Vigilantes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/09/meet-the-anti-piracy-vigilantes/#comment-288083</guid>
		<description>[...] Check it out here [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Check it out here [...]</p>
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