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	<title>Comments on: Beyond The Apple - Wal-Mart Music Landscape</title>
	<atom:link href="http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/</link>
	<description>The latest gear, software, and techniques for electronic music production and performance</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 21:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: clydicus</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/#comment-409254</link>
		<dc:creator>clydicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/#comment-409254</guid>
		<description>What about "iTunes Exclusives"?  To me, the idea of artists releasing tracks as exclusively available to one hardware platform or another is "really bad for consumers*, and in the long run bad for artists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about &#8220;iTunes Exclusives&#8221;?  To me, the idea of artists releasing tracks as exclusively available to one hardware platform or another is &#8220;really bad for consumers*, and in the long run bad for artists.</p>
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		<title>By: J-chot</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/#comment-407649</link>
		<dc:creator>J-chot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 08:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/#comment-407649</guid>
		<description>hey robin perry, your paradigm sucks.
techno is alot like jazz, large amounts of both sound the same when taken lightly.

"a track isnt music or art unless there is an audience present!"

you mean to tell me that my be-mulletted iron maiden coverband isn't art!!

there will ALWAYS be copycats. they will be cast aside with time just like all those beatles imitation bands that no-one even remembers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey robin perry, your paradigm sucks.<br />
techno is alot like jazz, large amounts of both sound the same when taken lightly.</p>
<p>&#8220;a track isnt music or art unless there is an audience present!&#8221;</p>
<p>you mean to tell me that my be-mulletted iron maiden coverband isn&#8217;t art!!</p>
<p>there will ALWAYS be copycats. they will be cast aside with time just like all those beatles imitation bands that no-one even remembers</p>
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		<title>By: J-chot</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/#comment-407646</link>
		<dc:creator>J-chot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 08:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/#comment-407646</guid>
		<description>ok here goes:

VINYL:
-doesn't work in the car
-hard to hand out at a show/expensive to produce.
-degrades with use and requires special care.
-the absolutely astounding and staggeringly gigantic variety of discoverible treasure at prices cheaper than conaco/AMPM hotdogs at more places than you can shake a stick at.

TAPES:
-horrible, but novel quality.
-CHEAP!!! 
-a vast untapped sampleing source.
-indie rock irony bonus points.

MP3s
-can be free 
-easy to swap/dupe/distribute online.
-hard to hand out at shows.
-those car stereos that can play thumb drives are the greatest inventions ever. no more spindles in the car.
-no one will find my, or anyone elses mp3s at a thiftstore years from now/no second hand sales.
-mp3s are like buttholes and myspace accounts.
everyone's got em. you spent 200 hrs on your tracks, but you're on the same level of "johnny the mash-up kid" who pirated an old copy of cool edit pro.
- you can't hustle mp3s..seriously.

cds:
-easy/cheap to hand out
-cheapest physical medium to mass produce.
-gets damaged more easily than any other medium
-way harder to ignore than mp3s
-totally 10 years ago...I mean really. cds are the new tapes.(wink)

I think there's enough room for everyone here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ok here goes:</p>
<p>VINYL:<br />
-doesn&#8217;t work in the car<br />
-hard to hand out at a show/expensive to produce.<br />
-degrades with use and requires special care.<br />
-the absolutely astounding and staggeringly gigantic variety of discoverible treasure at prices cheaper than conaco/AMPM hotdogs at more places than you can shake a stick at.</p>
<p>TAPES:<br />
-horrible, but novel quality.<br />
-CHEAP!!!<br />
-a vast untapped sampleing source.<br />
-indie rock irony bonus points.</p>
<p>MP3s<br />
-can be free<br />
-easy to swap/dupe/distribute online.<br />
-hard to hand out at shows.<br />
-those car stereos that can play thumb drives are the greatest inventions ever. no more spindles in the car.<br />
-no one will find my, or anyone elses mp3s at a thiftstore years from now/no second hand sales.<br />
-mp3s are like buttholes and myspace accounts.<br />
everyone&#8217;s got em. you spent 200 hrs on your tracks, but you&#8217;re on the same level of &#8220;johnny the mash-up kid&#8221; who pirated an old copy of cool edit pro.<br />
- you can&#8217;t hustle mp3s..seriously.</p>
<p>cds:<br />
-easy/cheap to hand out<br />
-cheapest physical medium to mass produce.<br />
-gets damaged more easily than any other medium<br />
-way harder to ignore than mp3s<br />
-totally 10 years ago&#8230;I mean really. cds are the new tapes.(wink)</p>
<p>I think there&#8217;s enough room for everyone here.</p>
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		<title>By: robin parry</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/#comment-406430</link>
		<dc:creator>robin parry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 01:16:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/#comment-406430</guid>
		<description>as a music lover and a musician for 35 years, either way being paid for the music you slave over is now a vanishing possibility, so to appears ANY originality, come on, with all this amazing software, why does it all sound sooooooo unoriginal,  techno ended itself in a cul de sac, whats next? something original, a new aphex perhaps, but please stop the really bad clones, a track isnt music or art unless there is an audience present! and it appears that most dont even know who their listening to ON THEIR OWN IPODS. music has been turned into a commodity to help sell things, trigger emotional hitpoints, no more something to inspire, anger, critisize or even spur us to do better, just wallow in the effluent of our own sick cultre's triviallity,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as a music lover and a musician for 35 years, either way being paid for the music you slave over is now a vanishing possibility, so to appears ANY originality, come on, with all this amazing software, why does it all sound sooooooo unoriginal,  techno ended itself in a cul de sac, whats next? something original, a new aphex perhaps, but please stop the really bad clones, a track isnt music or art unless there is an audience present! and it appears that most dont even know who their listening to ON THEIR OWN IPODS. music has been turned into a commodity to help sell things, trigger emotional hitpoints, no more something to inspire, anger, critisize or even spur us to do better, just wallow in the effluent of our own sick cultre&#8217;s triviallity,</p>
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		<title>By: Eliakim</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/#comment-406329</link>
		<dc:creator>Eliakim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/#comment-406329</guid>
		<description>Apple never wanted DRM in the first place. It was the big labels that wanted it. And now they find that what they wanted turned into a big millstone around their neck... LOL! It serves them right. So, they are trying to "backtrack" as fast as they can (giving limited amounts of DRM-free music to others) and trying to regain some control *over* the consumer market, instead of listening to what consumers want. They simply want to control the consumer market in order to practice their extortion on the consumer, as they are used to from the past. They're unhappy Apple has broken that stranglehold that they've had.

So, I don't trust the big labels in that they somehow have the consumer's interest at heart and they want to help the consumer and break down the "big bad Apple" who is causing all this trouble! LOL...

Nope, if they ever gain any amount of control over the market, once again, they'll simply slap on more draconian DRM and make sure that no one ever caters to the consumer -- ever again. So, don't let them do that.

Apple is the one who has the consumer's best interest at heart, simply because they make the best products in that they try to figure out what benefits the consumer the most, while (at the same time), Apple is going to make money at doing that. Both win!

The "proof" that Apple is good at catering to the consumer is simply their overwhelming market share in this segment. It doesn't happen that way simply from glitzy products or lots of advertising or the "cool factor" alone. It's something that the consumer sees as a definite benefit to them, over and against the big music labels.

I hope the big labels go down the tube and the artists start going direct, through intermediaries like Apple (and bypass the labels) and get a bigger share themselves, along with Apple keeping on making better products for the consumer and the labels lamenting that they lost control of an extortion market that they used to rake in the dough with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apple never wanted DRM in the first place. It was the big labels that wanted it. And now they find that what they wanted turned into a big millstone around their neck&#8230; LOL! It serves them right. So, they are trying to &#8220;backtrack&#8221; as fast as they can (giving limited amounts of DRM-free music to others) and trying to regain some control *over* the consumer market, instead of listening to what consumers want. They simply want to control the consumer market in order to practice their extortion on the consumer, as they are used to from the past. They&#8217;re unhappy Apple has broken that stranglehold that they&#8217;ve had.</p>
<p>So, I don&#8217;t trust the big labels in that they somehow have the consumer&#8217;s interest at heart and they want to help the consumer and break down the &#8220;big bad Apple&#8221; who is causing all this trouble! LOL&#8230;</p>
<p>Nope, if they ever gain any amount of control over the market, once again, they&#8217;ll simply slap on more draconian DRM and make sure that no one ever caters to the consumer &#8212; ever again. So, don&#8217;t let them do that.</p>
<p>Apple is the one who has the consumer&#8217;s best interest at heart, simply because they make the best products in that they try to figure out what benefits the consumer the most, while (at the same time), Apple is going to make money at doing that. Both win!</p>
<p>The &#8220;proof&#8221; that Apple is good at catering to the consumer is simply their overwhelming market share in this segment. It doesn&#8217;t happen that way simply from glitzy products or lots of advertising or the &#8220;cool factor&#8221; alone. It&#8217;s something that the consumer sees as a definite benefit to them, over and against the big music labels.</p>
<p>I hope the big labels go down the tube and the artists start going direct, through intermediaries like Apple (and bypass the labels) and get a bigger share themselves, along with Apple keeping on making better products for the consumer and the labels lamenting that they lost control of an extortion market that they used to rake in the dough with.</p>
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		<title>By: AdamC</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/#comment-406220</link>
		<dc:creator>AdamC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/#comment-406220</guid>
		<description>My 2¢ worth, at the end of the day the most popular seller is the one that offers the most convenience.

There will always be die hard vinyl fans, cd fans but when it comes to MP3s you can store 2000 songs in whichever favourite players of yours and let it run through the full collection of yours without having to get up from where you are sitting and change the cd or vinyl.

The same with Apple TV it is the apple of the future where you can store all your movies and watch the one that you fancy at that moment. Try front row and you will never look back but if you want to watch your movies six inches from the screen then i would strongly recommend blu-ray. (Front Row works with VLC too)

I wonder if 99¢ is not a good price then what is? or you would prefer the labels to charge at whatever they want. 

Confession - I don't buy cds because i can't afford them nor vinyl because I can't afford to own a Macintosh sound system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My 2¢ worth, at the end of the day the most popular seller is the one that offers the most convenience.</p>
<p>There will always be die hard vinyl fans, cd fans but when it comes to MP3s you can store 2000 songs in whichever favourite players of yours and let it run through the full collection of yours without having to get up from where you are sitting and change the cd or vinyl.</p>
<p>The same with Apple TV it is the apple of the future where you can store all your movies and watch the one that you fancy at that moment. Try front row and you will never look back but if you want to watch your movies six inches from the screen then i would strongly recommend blu-ray. (Front Row works with VLC too)</p>
<p>I wonder if 99¢ is not a good price then what is? or you would prefer the labels to charge at whatever they want. </p>
<p>Confession - I don&#8217;t buy cds because i can&#8217;t afford them nor vinyl because I can&#8217;t afford to own a Macintosh sound system.</p>
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		<title>By: Downpressor</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/#comment-405950</link>
		<dc:creator>Downpressor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 06:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/#comment-405950</guid>
		<description>This thread is pretty sad. There is in fact a great variety of online music vendors nowadays catering to all sorts of tastes and technical preferences. There are plenty of stores outside the US that never make it into the scope of these discussions. 

There are at least 5 different digital tunes vendors selling my work in Japan and iTunes sells my stuff worldwide. If it wasnt for them, I wouldnt have the resources, time or knowledge to contract with mobile carriers, local ISPs or any other resselers in places I cant speak the language, etc.

Theres no threat of monopoly here, theres nothing forcing me or any other small fish to deal with Apple. I can at any time go back to selling vinyl only.

As a customer I find all kinds of neat stuff on iTunes. Just last night I got an album from a band called Yidcore that I'd never heard before but found doing a search for "If I Were A Rich Man" (Fiddler on the Roof). Been plenty of cases like that where I go looking for one thing and end up finding and buying something I had no idea existed but it turns out I like. 

In short I see no threat at all to musical variety here and as a customer I find lots of benefit.

All you folks bitching about WalMart? Come live some place without big box discounters and see how much you enjoy paying Everyday High Prices for stuff you need.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This thread is pretty sad. There is in fact a great variety of online music vendors nowadays catering to all sorts of tastes and technical preferences. There are plenty of stores outside the US that never make it into the scope of these discussions. </p>
<p>There are at least 5 different digital tunes vendors selling my work in Japan and iTunes sells my stuff worldwide. If it wasnt for them, I wouldnt have the resources, time or knowledge to contract with mobile carriers, local ISPs or any other resselers in places I cant speak the language, etc.</p>
<p>Theres no threat of monopoly here, theres nothing forcing me or any other small fish to deal with Apple. I can at any time go back to selling vinyl only.</p>
<p>As a customer I find all kinds of neat stuff on iTunes. Just last night I got an album from a band called Yidcore that I&#8217;d never heard before but found doing a search for &#8220;If I Were A Rich Man&#8221; (Fiddler on the Roof). Been plenty of cases like that where I go looking for one thing and end up finding and buying something I had no idea existed but it turns out I like. </p>
<p>In short I see no threat at all to musical variety here and as a customer I find lots of benefit.</p>
<p>All you folks bitching about WalMart? Come live some place without big box discounters and see how much you enjoy paying Everyday High Prices for stuff you need.</p>
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		<title>By: ryan j</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/#comment-405773</link>
		<dc:creator>ryan j</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 00:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/#comment-405773</guid>
		<description>I refuse to buy an album that is not a CD or Flac. Of course I can't find any of the music I like in stores these days and a lot of the retailers don't offer, or don't want to offer Flac yet...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I refuse to buy an album that is not a CD or Flac. Of course I can&#8217;t find any of the music I like in stores these days and a lot of the retailers don&#8217;t offer, or don&#8217;t want to offer Flac yet&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Kirn</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/#comment-405735</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kirn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 23:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/#comment-405735</guid>
		<description>Actually, amoeba, I pretty much agree with everything you're saying there!

My only concern is, I haven't seen numbers lately, but if Apple continues to push 70-90% of the online download sales, that seems to me to be an unhealthy number. So by "nowhere to go but down," I mean in share ... I'd hope that other players, big and small, take a bit of that share as the overall market grows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, amoeba, I pretty much agree with everything you&#8217;re saying there!</p>
<p>My only concern is, I haven&#8217;t seen numbers lately, but if Apple continues to push 70-90% of the online download sales, that seems to me to be an unhealthy number. So by &#8220;nowhere to go but down,&#8221; I mean in share &#8230; I&#8217;d hope that other players, big and small, take a bit of that share as the overall market grows.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/#comment-405734</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 23:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/27/beyond-the-apple-wal-mart-music-landscape/#comment-405734</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;"iTunes has itself become a kind of Wal-Mart for music: a retailer so large, it starts to impact the rest of the business and stifles variety."&lt;/I&gt;

Ah, but that's the beauty of the digital realm.

Large retailers must carry physical inventory.  You need to have a place to put that inventory, like a warehouse.  Warehouses cost money.  You don't want something that isn't going to sell taking up valuable space sitting in a warehouse that could be used for storing something that IS selling.

So Walmart wants to only stock stuff that is going to sell--and sell fast.  They don't want to buy 50 CDs if it's' going to take a year to sell them all.  They want to buy 5,000 CDs that will sell in one quarter.

Unlike Walmart, Apple has no physical inventory.  Because their inventory is digital, they can store more of it in a given amount of space (how much can you store on a hard drive?  How much space does it take up?  Compare that to the amount of space taken up by the same amount of music on CDs).

So Apple can afford a much larger "inventory" of music than Walmart because it's much cheaper to keep around and there's less risk in music which doesn't sell in large volumes--It costs Apple as much to keep a copy of the #1 selling song as it does to keep the #1,000,000 selling song.

So I don't think you need to be concerned about Apple's "variety" of music.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;iTunes has itself become a kind of Wal-Mart for music: a retailer so large, it starts to impact the rest of the business and stifles variety.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Ah, but that&#8217;s the beauty of the digital realm.</p>
<p>Large retailers must carry physical inventory.  You need to have a place to put that inventory, like a warehouse.  Warehouses cost money.  You don&#8217;t want something that isn&#8217;t going to sell taking up valuable space sitting in a warehouse that could be used for storing something that IS selling.</p>
<p>So Walmart wants to only stock stuff that is going to sell&#8211;and sell fast.  They don&#8217;t want to buy 50 CDs if it&#8217;s&#8217; going to take a year to sell them all.  They want to buy 5,000 CDs that will sell in one quarter.</p>
<p>Unlike Walmart, Apple has no physical inventory.  Because their inventory is digital, they can store more of it in a given amount of space (how much can you store on a hard drive?  How much space does it take up?  Compare that to the amount of space taken up by the same amount of music on CDs).</p>
<p>So Apple can afford a much larger &#8220;inventory&#8221; of music than Walmart because it&#8217;s much cheaper to keep around and there&#8217;s less risk in music which doesn&#8217;t sell in large volumes&#8211;It costs Apple as much to keep a copy of the #1 selling song as it does to keep the #1,000,000 selling song.</p>
<p>So I don&#8217;t think you need to be concerned about Apple&#8217;s &#8220;variety&#8221; of music.</p>
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