Two years of this and at the time improving product somehow ended in 1998 with V/Vm on the cover of The Wire magazine. Just combinations of hard work and determination coupled with finding some good music at the time really got me in the position i am in today which really is nowhere but able to just about survive.

If the audio is different enough and also progressive in terms of style it will be noticed and people will be interested in output even if it is promoted on just myspace, your own site, facebook or any other media rich provider.

Filters right now are poor online, this will be one area where it will improve as time goes on you can bet your bottom dollar on that as the amount of audio/video/art created online is massive. Slowly a new network will appear but this will be personal to you (via blogs/sites you trust) and that network will provide what in the past traditional print media provided.

For now the important thing is content and making good (or in my case bad) audio and getting it out there or certainly ready to be made available out there.

It’s a strange question for me to ask myself would i rather be starting out back in 1996 with only traditional forms of ditribution or now where really anything is possible from a bedroom and everything is immediate ?

It’s a question i find tough to answer as now i have the advantages of today on the back of all the hard work i did in the past and the experience of those days which were very hard but also rewarding of course.

It’s exciting times for us all right now and no-one really can say where everything is headed.

i do think it’s a bit idealistic/naive to think that other artists can achieve the same success that you have right now if they just started out that way. i generally agree with your comments about where we’re headed, however there is simply way too much music being made/self-released to be able to sift through it all without SOME sort of filter. i’m not saying that filter necessarily needs to cost any money, but i don’t think any new artist should expect to maintain a living just by making a website and assuming it will reach people without any additional effort.

@V/Vm: as for Nine Inch Nails they did what they did with this release and should be applauded for this, but still these big artists could do more. I mean $300 for a boxset. this is ridiculous and alienates so many people who cannot afford to pay. It’s not like Trent needs the cash at the end of the day, but top end musicians sadly are only motivated by big $$$$ no matter what codswallop they say in interviews.

I’m not a major NIN fan, but I really don’t think their $300 box set is alienating anyone. There are plenty of packages that they are making available to people so everyone can listen to the music. If you’re a hardcore fan who’s got 300 bones to drop on a box set with some cool artwork and a book, that’s an awesome option to have. For those of us casuals who just want to check it out, we can stream the first part for free. I don’t see a problem with any of that or how it “fails” in any sense of the word.

My only point in posts above is that it is possible if you make a website to survive on your own with the help of people who support that independent attitude.

I get 1000 hits a day with no advertising and only word of mouth as promotion and existing releases maybe out of the 1000 just 1 person is interested enough to buy something or donate some cash, so in that sense the more i can do and give away the more likely i am to get some kind of revenue.

as for Nine Inch Nails they did what they did with this release and should be applauded for this, but still these big artists could do more. I mean $300 for a boxset. this is ridiculous and alienates so many people who cannot afford to pay. It’s not like Trent needs the cash at the end of the day, but top end musicians sadly are only motivated by big $$$$ no matter what codswallop they say in interviews.

One great thing i have noticed over the years though about giving a lot of free audio away is the attention you get from places like Russia, Poland and also increasingly more developing countries who are getting a bigger online presence. Traditionally you could never really sell to these people and it’s great to be able to reach out online to people who otherwise would be alienated.

It’s a great time right now.

@V/Vm- “Nine Inch Fails”? I’m not a big fan, and I fournd the method for this release to be a bit confusing for the average listener, but they sold 2500 of those $300 box sets in a day and probably could have easiyl doubled that. A respectable $750,000. No label to pay off, no physical promotion to pay for, only 10 weeks in a studio that he owns, and he didn’t even have to write any lyrics (thank god!!) !!!! On top of that, the other versions have no doubt been selling. I want to make that kind of money and just kick it with modular synths all day dicking around in the studio!!!
Right now I’ll settle for editing and net-readying songs for the internet for my neighbors label. Could be worse.
-b

But, you know, as hard as we are on musicians, the nature of a lot of freelance businesses is putting together more than one revenue stream. I think quite a few of my all-time favorite artists have other gigs or even day jobs. So I don’t see any shame in that. And naturally, to *whatever* extent we can support our art, it’s a good thing. There’s no reason to have to assume you have to do it entirely for free.

Your 6-CD set sounds great. Do you think it’s practical to produce a 6-CD set every year? Did you do one in 2007? And in 2008? That seems to be to point of the original article - that a sustainable life can come from 1000 fans.

I know it’s possible to make a life as an indy artist. 1000 people, each spending $100 to net $100,000 seems out of step from reality. That’s all I’m saying. 2000 mediocre fans spending $20 each netting $40,000 is much closer to the reality of every successful indy artist that I know.

If i had 1000 people buying everything i made i would be very well off these days. Don’t even think as well for one minute what i make is substandard. For instance in 2006 i made a 6CD box set which i sold for £15 including postage anywhere in the world and this set won an award of distinction at the ARS Technica awards.

The thing about that box-set was six months before its release i gave all the audio away. Yet i still presold enough to make the thing at no loss. Well before Thom Yorke and Radiodead and also Nine Inch Fails.

We are already ahead of these people, small networks of labels out there trying new things and not ball and chained to some dull desk job.

There’s nothing difficult to understand about making this work only that you cut out all the middle men.

Oh and i don’t tour anymore or send any kind of promo material out. Yet the label and operation i run is more future proof than those around me in a simillar niche who rely on traditional distribution and also iTunes as distribution is going to be gone in around 5-10 years and will take the majority of labels with it.

Quite why people are saying that this is an impossible idea is ridiculous. Come and talk to me about it and move into the here and now instead of all clinging onto old and outdated values about music production and consumption.

The main thing you all want is the ability to create each day with a modicum of financial pressure ideas like this come along too many of you are not open minded enough to accept todays challenge and go with it.

Remember not all created media is worth money.

Let’s say you put out one album a year. $15 bucks. And let’s say every fan buys an extra copy for a non-fan. $30. Two new t-shirts a year. $10×2+$30=$50. Two shows a month. 25% of $5 doorx24+$50=$70.

So busting your ass, putting out a new album and two t-shirts every year, plus a show every-other week, you get $70. You could play more shows, but you’ll quickly saturate your audience. Even true fans won’t see the same show every week. (Maybe 1000 true stalkers, but that’s another article.) You’d have to start touring.

None of this considers costs. You can shrink the cost of CDs by releasing online, but you can’t cut t-shirt or touring costs.

I like the idea that musicians don’t have to be superstars to be able to do it full time. I just think the 1000 true fans idea is a bit unrealistic.

But hey, that’s part of the job… like they say, if you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen. ;)