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	<title>Comments on: The Problem with Music Taxes: Where Does the Money Go, and How Much?</title>
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		<title>By: Create Digital Music &#187; Rhobbler: Connect Rhapsody to Last.FM</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/03/28/the-problem-with-music-taxes-where-does-the-money-go-and-how-much/comment-page-1/#comment-428002</link>
		<dc:creator>Create Digital Music &#187; Rhobbler: Connect Rhapsody to Last.FM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] crazy scheme in which you pay a monthly fee and get unlimited music, huh? Imagine [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] crazy scheme in which you pay a monthly fee and get unlimited music, huh? Imagine [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Kirn</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/03/28/the-problem-with-music-taxes-where-does-the-money-go-and-how-much/comment-page-1/#comment-427275</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kirn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 01:47:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It wasn&#039;t leaked. Griffin has been trumpeting these ideas, and he keeps telling them to anyone who will listen. And that could be a good thing, except he seems to be more enamored with ideas than with implementation details or balancing the needs of the people affected.

And sure, you wouldn&#039;t *turn down* the money if it happens -- and it does add up. I just don&#039;t think it&#039;s going to happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It wasn&#8217;t leaked. Griffin has been trumpeting these ideas, and he keeps telling them to anyone who will listen. And that could be a good thing, except he seems to be more enamored with ideas than with implementation details or balancing the needs of the people affected.</p>
<p>And sure, you wouldn&#8217;t *turn down* the money if it happens &#8212; and it does add up. I just don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s going to happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Downpressor</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/03/28/the-problem-with-music-taxes-where-does-the-money-go-and-how-much/comment-page-1/#comment-427274</link>
		<dc:creator>Downpressor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 01:39:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/03/28/the-problem-with-music-taxes-where-does-the-money-go-and-how-much/#comment-427274</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s what all this reveals to me:

1 People who know &lt;strong&gt;nothing&lt;/strong&gt; about the workings of a particular industry are the first to say how it should be run.

2 Good things rarely come out of leaked corporate memos. Warner and other large publishers probably run all sorts of ideas around internally. When one of these proposals gets out to the blogotwats everyone feels the need to offer their opinion (see point 1). OTOH, sometimes these things get leaked on purpose to gauge public reaction but that just brings us back to point 1 again.

Content publishing of any type is a very strange industry. Most product will never recoup costs, but the big sellers cover the rest. You get better odds in Vegas. When you know how much one solid gold hit can be worth you do &lt;i&gt;everything you can&lt;/i&gt; legal or not to get it in front of potential buyers. Oh and guess what? Running an indie/small publisher is really no different except your marketing budget is too small for hookers &amp; blow so you end up sending a few cases of beer and 10% of a product order to your distributor for free instead. 

As to a tax/surcharge/whathaveyou, this &lt;i&gt;can&lt;/i&gt; be good for a publisher &lt;i&gt;as long as you have good accountants and lawyers&lt;/i&gt; and thats why its good for the majors but not so much for the little guys. 

US$5/mo does not sound like much but it adds up quickly. But you can only get a slice of that pie if your lawyer is at the table to negotiate for you and your accountant can work up a statement of how big your slice should be. 

If this sort of thing goes through I am definitely going to see how much work it would take to get my microscopically small share I&#039;d be &quot;due&quot; for my own records and records I publish. If you are involved in this strange business with anything but the purist artistic motives (or you just sample other peoples stuff and dont have a musical/legal leg to stand on) you&#039;d be foolish not to want some of this revenue if it comes to pass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s what all this reveals to me:</p>
<p>1 People who know <strong>nothing</strong> about the workings of a particular industry are the first to say how it should be run.</p>
<p>2 Good things rarely come out of leaked corporate memos. Warner and other large publishers probably run all sorts of ideas around internally. When one of these proposals gets out to the blogotwats everyone feels the need to offer their opinion (see point 1). OTOH, sometimes these things get leaked on purpose to gauge public reaction but that just brings us back to point 1 again.</p>
<p>Content publishing of any type is a very strange industry. Most product will never recoup costs, but the big sellers cover the rest. You get better odds in Vegas. When you know how much one solid gold hit can be worth you do <i>everything you can</i> legal or not to get it in front of potential buyers. Oh and guess what? Running an indie/small publisher is really no different except your marketing budget is too small for hookers &amp; blow so you end up sending a few cases of beer and 10% of a product order to your distributor for free instead. </p>
<p>As to a tax/surcharge/whathaveyou, this <i>can</i> be good for a publisher <i>as long as you have good accountants and lawyers</i> and thats why its good for the majors but not so much for the little guys. </p>
<p>US$5/mo does not sound like much but it adds up quickly. But you can only get a slice of that pie if your lawyer is at the table to negotiate for you and your accountant can work up a statement of how big your slice should be. </p>
<p>If this sort of thing goes through I am definitely going to see how much work it would take to get my microscopically small share I&#8217;d be &#8220;due&#8221; for my own records and records I publish. If you are involved in this strange business with anything but the purist artistic motives (or you just sample other peoples stuff and dont have a musical/legal leg to stand on) you&#8217;d be foolish not to want some of this revenue if it comes to pass.</p>
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		<title>By: Case</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/03/28/the-problem-with-music-taxes-where-does-the-money-go-and-how-much/comment-page-1/#comment-426935</link>
		<dc:creator>Case</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:45:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/03/28/the-problem-with-music-taxes-where-does-the-money-go-and-how-much/#comment-426935</guid>
		<description>I think the music tax started here in Canada as they&#039;ve been talking about the $5/mo ISP tax for at least a year. The odd thing is it raised first by an organization of artists. You see, we already have a music tax [a levy actually] that is on blank CDRs to compensate artists for lost income from downloads. It is then distributed by record sales. A flawed system as i&#039;m sure Celine Dion isn&#039;t being pirated as much as NIN, but is sure selling more. BUT.. because of this tax/levy, the Supreme Court of Canada has ruled music downloads to be legal. Uploading [aka sharing] is still illegal tho, so that rules out Bit Torrent. But do to our strong privacy laws[ soon to be eroded by the Conservative Gov&#039;t] the CIAA [Canuk RIAA] can do fuck all... so far. They tried to extend this tax/levy to flash/HD based mp3 players but failed. They were looking for ~$30 per iPod.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the music tax started here in Canada as they&#8217;ve been talking about the $5/mo ISP tax for at least a year. The odd thing is it raised first by an organization of artists. You see, we already have a music tax [a levy actually] that is on blank CDRs to compensate artists for lost income from downloads. It is then distributed by record sales. A flawed system as i&#8217;m sure Celine Dion isn&#8217;t being pirated as much as NIN, but is sure selling more. BUT.. because of this tax/levy, the Supreme Court of Canada has ruled music downloads to be legal. Uploading [aka sharing] is still illegal tho, so that rules out Bit Torrent. But do to our strong privacy laws[ soon to be eroded by the Conservative Gov't] the CIAA [Canuk RIAA] can do fuck all&#8230; so far. They tried to extend this tax/levy to flash/HD based mp3 players but failed. They were looking for ~$30 per iPod.</p>
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		<title>By: James DS</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/03/28/the-problem-with-music-taxes-where-does-the-money-go-and-how-much/comment-page-1/#comment-426863</link>
		<dc:creator>James DS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 12:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/03/28/the-problem-with-music-taxes-where-does-the-money-go-and-how-much/#comment-426863</guid>
		<description>What I thought was interesting is the emphasis on &quot;collective management&quot; rather that individual control of rights. It appears that he is advocating a European style model in the manner of the collecting societies rather than a more US style fragmented rights landscape. 

Another problem that he will face is the US anti-trust and cartel laws. I&#039;m not an expert but I suspect that this is a major barrier...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I thought was interesting is the emphasis on &#8220;collective management&#8221; rather that individual control of rights. It appears that he is advocating a European style model in the manner of the collecting societies rather than a more US style fragmented rights landscape. </p>
<p>Another problem that he will face is the US anti-trust and cartel laws. I&#8217;m not an expert but I suspect that this is a major barrier&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Kirn</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/03/28/the-problem-with-music-taxes-where-does-the-money-go-and-how-much/comment-page-1/#comment-426436</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kirn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 05:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/03/28/the-problem-with-music-taxes-where-does-the-money-go-and-how-much/#comment-426436</guid>
		<description>Oh, and further supporting your argument, newmiracle:
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/25/interview-hank-shocklee-on-learning-musical-craft-music-industry/

Hank talked about ways in which the industry didn&#039;t really get selling *records*, either, because they don&#039;t know anything about music. Doh. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and further supporting your argument, newmiracle:<br />
<a href="http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/25/interview-hank-shocklee-on-learning-musical-craft-music-industry/" rel="nofollow">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/02/25/interview-hank-shocklee-on-learning-musical-craft-music-industry/</a></p>
<p>Hank talked about ways in which the industry didn&#8217;t really get selling *records*, either, because they don&#8217;t know anything about music. Doh. ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Kirn</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/03/28/the-problem-with-music-taxes-where-does-the-money-go-and-how-much/comment-page-1/#comment-426434</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kirn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 05:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/03/28/the-problem-with-music-taxes-where-does-the-money-go-and-how-much/#comment-426434</guid>
		<description>@newmiracle -- I agree, but I think this has already begun to change rapidly. Majors are dropping DRM. They&#039;re considering subscription models. Some are even flirting with P2P. And, yeah, Apple is in the tech business -- but still largely the hardware business, which means you see equally interesting stuff happening from the likes of Amazon, or Last.fm, or a number of other corners.

I think the majors got the &quot;adapt or die&quot; thing. The problem is Warner being so far off the mark with this particular adaptation. Oh, well -- I expect they got the message. And I think the majors now covet the kind of love (and money), say, NIN just got. 

In fact, to me the challenge is for the &quot;minors&quot; to make their play in a big way, before the majors catch on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@newmiracle &#8212; I agree, but I think this has already begun to change rapidly. Majors are dropping DRM. They&#8217;re considering subscription models. Some are even flirting with P2P. And, yeah, Apple is in the tech business &#8212; but still largely the hardware business, which means you see equally interesting stuff happening from the likes of Amazon, or Last.fm, or a number of other corners.</p>
<p>I think the majors got the &#8220;adapt or die&#8221; thing. The problem is Warner being so far off the mark with this particular adaptation. Oh, well &#8212; I expect they got the message. And I think the majors now covet the kind of love (and money), say, NIN just got. </p>
<p>In fact, to me the challenge is for the &#8220;minors&#8221; to make their play in a big way, before the majors catch on.</p>
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		<title>By: Create Digital Music &#187; Update: Warner Exec Just Brainstorming, Oddly Ignorant of Reality</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/03/28/the-problem-with-music-taxes-where-does-the-money-go-and-how-much/comment-page-1/#comment-426412</link>
		<dc:creator>Create Digital Music &#187; Update: Warner Exec Just Brainstorming, Oddly Ignorant of Reality</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 04:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/03/28/the-problem-with-music-taxes-where-does-the-money-go-and-how-much/#comment-426412</guid>
		<description>[...] Jim Griffin was unprepared for the rancor of the Interwebs, because he&#8217;s backpedaling on a proposal to create a blanket fee for ISPs on music. All of that was just part of a &#8220;dynamic conversation,&#8221; says Griffin in a statement, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jim Griffin was unprepared for the rancor of the Interwebs, because he&#8217;s backpedaling on a proposal to create a blanket fee for ISPs on music. All of that was just part of a &#8220;dynamic conversation,&#8221; says Griffin in a statement, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: newmiracle</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/03/28/the-problem-with-music-taxes-where-does-the-money-go-and-how-much/comment-page-1/#comment-426399</link>
		<dc:creator>newmiracle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 03:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/03/28/the-problem-with-music-taxes-where-does-the-money-go-and-how-much/#comment-426399</guid>
		<description>It seems that alot of us in the internet relm always like to say that the majors &quot;blew it&quot; somehow.

In a way, I don&#039;t think digital distribution was their&#039;s to blow in the first place.  That&#039;s why Apple stepped in with iTunes and shocked the hell out of the music industry.  It&#039;s because people in the music biz AREN&#039;T in the tech biz.  Apple IS.  I feel like it&#039;s the same thing in alot of other business sectors- where computers and digital technology just turned everything upside down.  Apple saw the potential because it&#039;s in that sector.

But with these big music labels- they aren&#039;t in the tech business, so they don&#039;t want to have to do tech things.  It&#039;s like someone having to learn a foreign language when they&#039;re in their 40s.  Sure there are alot of good reasons and insentives to &#039;make the transition&#039; or &#039;invest in the skills&#039;, but when it comes down to it people are lazy.  If the majors can just slap some taxes on some thing somewhere- they wind up getting theirs.  Industries are like large, lumbering dinosaurs.  They aren&#039;t fit for fast maneuvering and radical change.  They&#039;ll just go existinct, eventually.

Until then, they&#039;ll just grab at whatever quick fix or stopgap solution keeps the cash flowing.  This is why you see things like this, and other equally strange proposals like taxing CD-Rs or other blank media.  They&#039;ll throttle p2p traffic.  They&#039;ll implement half-baked and flawed DRM.  They&#039;ll do all this stuff because it&#039;s &lt;i&gt;easier&lt;/i&gt; for them.  Meanwhile, we all get screwed on the legitimate and fair uses for these things.  And the people working at major music and movie companies won&#039;t care that they are stifling genuine innovation and technological advancement of the human race because they still have their 6 figure salary.  It&#039;s just natural to follow the path of least resistance.  Eventually they will adapt or die.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that alot of us in the internet relm always like to say that the majors &#8220;blew it&#8221; somehow.</p>
<p>In a way, I don&#8217;t think digital distribution was their&#8217;s to blow in the first place.  That&#8217;s why Apple stepped in with iTunes and shocked the hell out of the music industry.  It&#8217;s because people in the music biz AREN&#8217;T in the tech biz.  Apple IS.  I feel like it&#8217;s the same thing in alot of other business sectors- where computers and digital technology just turned everything upside down.  Apple saw the potential because it&#8217;s in that sector.</p>
<p>But with these big music labels- they aren&#8217;t in the tech business, so they don&#8217;t want to have to do tech things.  It&#8217;s like someone having to learn a foreign language when they&#8217;re in their 40s.  Sure there are alot of good reasons and insentives to &#8216;make the transition&#8217; or &#8216;invest in the skills&#8217;, but when it comes down to it people are lazy.  If the majors can just slap some taxes on some thing somewhere- they wind up getting theirs.  Industries are like large, lumbering dinosaurs.  They aren&#8217;t fit for fast maneuvering and radical change.  They&#8217;ll just go existinct, eventually.</p>
<p>Until then, they&#8217;ll just grab at whatever quick fix or stopgap solution keeps the cash flowing.  This is why you see things like this, and other equally strange proposals like taxing CD-Rs or other blank media.  They&#8217;ll throttle p2p traffic.  They&#8217;ll implement half-baked and flawed DRM.  They&#8217;ll do all this stuff because it&#8217;s <i>easier</i> for them.  Meanwhile, we all get screwed on the legitimate and fair uses for these things.  And the people working at major music and movie companies won&#8217;t care that they are stifling genuine innovation and technological advancement of the human race because they still have their 6 figure salary.  It&#8217;s just natural to follow the path of least resistance.  Eventually they will adapt or die.</p>
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		<title>By: Fresh Freddy</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/03/28/the-problem-with-music-taxes-where-does-the-money-go-and-how-much/comment-page-1/#comment-426004</link>
		<dc:creator>Fresh Freddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 18:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/03/28/the-problem-with-music-taxes-where-does-the-money-go-and-how-much/#comment-426004</guid>
		<description>What irritates me about all this is that it has been going on for sooooo looooong.

The music industry has known for 15 years times were changing. The MP3 format has been around since 1993 and widely used for sharing music since 1995. Napster was shut after a lengthy court battle all the way back in 2001. The Microsoft Darknet paper was released 6 years ago in 2002.

What I&#039;m saying is the  music industry likes to paint themselves as blameless victims. All the time sueing Napster, sueing grannies,teenagers and dead people, sueing pirate bay, trying to block Russia&#039;s entrance to the WTO. 

All I can see is an industry that has not meet consumer needs and habits. An industry that has  consistently lost money for musicians for 15 years. An industry unwilling to change regardless of discomforting facts like those in the Darknet paper. An industry so lucky that its was given the means to generate profit from 50% of all homes and offices in the western world.... and they blew it.

I think the music industry knows they have lost the battle with MP3. I also think they know MP3 is only a transistional technology and the real future market is in streaming audio. I think that all this litagation and bluster is solely to strenghten their hand when it comes to negotiating streaming music rights. 

Either that or they really are that ineffectual and musicians and consumers have every right to be up in arms.

To J-Chot I do buy this &quot;digital revolution&quot; but I can&#039;t understand why your music is free either. Maybe you should talk to your record company and ask them to sort it out. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What irritates me about all this is that it has been going on for sooooo looooong.</p>
<p>The music industry has known for 15 years times were changing. The MP3 format has been around since 1993 and widely used for sharing music since 1995. Napster was shut after a lengthy court battle all the way back in 2001. The Microsoft Darknet paper was released 6 years ago in 2002.</p>
<p>What I&#8217;m saying is the  music industry likes to paint themselves as blameless victims. All the time sueing Napster, sueing grannies,teenagers and dead people, sueing pirate bay, trying to block Russia&#8217;s entrance to the WTO. </p>
<p>All I can see is an industry that has not meet consumer needs and habits. An industry that has  consistently lost money for musicians for 15 years. An industry unwilling to change regardless of discomforting facts like those in the Darknet paper. An industry so lucky that its was given the means to generate profit from 50% of all homes and offices in the western world&#8230;. and they blew it.</p>
<p>I think the music industry knows they have lost the battle with MP3. I also think they know MP3 is only a transistional technology and the real future market is in streaming audio. I think that all this litagation and bluster is solely to strenghten their hand when it comes to negotiating streaming music rights. </p>
<p>Either that or they really are that ineffectual and musicians and consumers have every right to be up in arms.</p>
<p>To J-Chot I do buy this &#8220;digital revolution&#8221; but I can&#8217;t understand why your music is free either. Maybe you should talk to your record company and ask them to sort it out. :)</p>
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