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	<title>Comments on: OLPC&#8217;s Sugar and Music Learning: Education, Not OS, is the Point</title>
	<atom:link href="http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/</link>
	<description>The latest gear, software, and techniques for electronic music production and performance</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 02:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/#comment-475055</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 04:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/#comment-475055</guid>
		<description>To take a slight breather from all the economic and political logistics, I'd just like to heap praise on the OLPC for platforming something like TAM-TAM. We have two XO units in our research lab, and the TAM-TAM program offers great promise/salvation to digital music as I know it. Let me explain. I remember back when Photoshop was new, and a bunch of the rich kids who's parents could afford to buy/run it would brag about becoming "photoshop digital graphic aritsts." Well, over time, such image-manipulation software has both refined into more powerful tools (like photoshop suite), as well as idiot-proof tools for casual usage (like the Kodak EZ-photo programs that let my grandma enjoy removing red-eye from photos).
Well, nowadays, it's digital music software that's on the cusp between pro-level and casual/toy apps, especially when it comes to youth appeal (...I should know, I teach high-schoolers about GarageBand and PureData).
I yearn for the day when second- and third-world kids around the globe can use programs like TAM-TAM to digitize their musical inspiration and heritage. And the modern (urban) culture of "making beats" will no longer be such a hip and/or acculterated thing.
(...wow, where'd this soap box come from?).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To take a slight breather from all the economic and political logistics, I&#8217;d just like to heap praise on the OLPC for platforming something like TAM-TAM. We have two XO units in our research lab, and the TAM-TAM program offers great promise/salvation to digital music as I know it. Let me explain. I remember back when Photoshop was new, and a bunch of the rich kids who&#8217;s parents could afford to buy/run it would brag about becoming &#8220;photoshop digital graphic aritsts.&#8221; Well, over time, such image-manipulation software has both refined into more powerful tools (like photoshop suite), as well as idiot-proof tools for casual usage (like the Kodak EZ-photo programs that let my grandma enjoy removing red-eye from photos).<br />
Well, nowadays, it&#8217;s digital music software that&#8217;s on the cusp between pro-level and casual/toy apps, especially when it comes to youth appeal (&#8230;I should know, I teach high-schoolers about GarageBand and PureData).<br />
I yearn for the day when second- and third-world kids around the globe can use programs like TAM-TAM to digitize their musical inspiration and heritage. And the modern (urban) culture of &#8220;making beats&#8221; will no longer be such a hip and/or acculterated thing.<br />
(&#8230;wow, where&#8217;d this soap box come from?).</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Kirn</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/#comment-474523</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kirn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 17:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/#comment-474523</guid>
		<description>Also, I'd point out the Give 1 / Get 1 program -- that's a case of people funding the OLPC in which no money comes from the receiving user's country. So there are opportunities and alternatives here; it'd be great to continue the spectrum of what's available, even with a healthy dose of skepticism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, I&#8217;d point out the Give 1 / Get 1 program &#8212; that&#8217;s a case of people funding the OLPC in which no money comes from the receiving user&#8217;s country. So there are opportunities and alternatives here; it&#8217;d be great to continue the spectrum of what&#8217;s available, even with a healthy dose of skepticism.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Kirn</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/#comment-474480</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kirn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 16:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/#comment-474480</guid>
		<description>There are completely different economic questions here that we're conflating.

1. Mass-purchased hardware: costs money. Even if the per-unit cost of the OLPC is less, I agree with commenters here that having a government buy up a whole bunch of XO laptops costs taxpayer money, and that it could be spent elsewhere. As for whether that's damaging or not, to me it would depend on the government buying the laptop and the specific case of that country, but I also have reservations. The obvious flipside of this, though, is that you can erase the divide between those with money to buy a laptop on their own and those who can't. And it's not a zero sum game, either; computer investment could be a part of investment in other essential infrastructure, like classroom facilities (which, again, are an issue right here in NYC -- so this is not an elite US vs. the rest of the world situation; everyone has needs, the US just happens to have more means at its disposal).

2. Cheaper commodity laptops: save money -- for those who can afford buying them. We're seeing lower-power, lower-cost computers all over the planet. And, incidentally, you don't have to have an imaginary distinction about the "third world" or "developing world." Have you ever been to the rural US? Or poorer urban communities? Talked to Aboriginal communities in Australia? These are supposedly "first world" countries, and we face a lot of the same challenges. (ironically, the difference is that our "first world" governments have the money to spend on these problems and often don't.) It's a global question. And, for better or worse, electronics makers see this as an opportunity. It'll be up to consumers in these markets whether or not to buy them. I'm not necessarily saying this is better or worse than the OLPC model, but it's out there, and we'll see what the benefit of this is. But the decision, at least, is in the hands of the consumer rather than the government. (Railing against capitalism to me misses some of the real damage of the lending regime of the past decades. It's involved the so-called "developed" world funding massive socialist projects like dams and such, ultimately to the detriment of the people affected and the finances of the country "we" loaned the money to. I'm all for a discussion of economic ideology, but in this case it's just plain abuse by certain world powers, and in the long run has hurt everyone.) 

3. Open source software: costs nothing. So, as far as Sugar, Python, all the software that we're discussing, it's simply NOT stealing resources from, say, water programs. It's quite the opposite -- open source software is replacing either pirated software, or expensive licenses. In other words, it's saving money. (I don't encourage throwing eggs at Microsoft, because I don't like getting things thrown at me, but this was the point of a Hungarian student angry about money spent on Microsoft licenses in the education system there.)

To me, #3 is a no-brainer. It costs nothing. It's volunteer sweat going into these projects, and the reason is that the people involved with work on Linux, OpenOffice, open source software, etc. believe there's benefit for them and others. Anyway, since every country in the world has *some* computer infrastructure, saying that open source, you can't say the *software* side of this project is stealing money from other places. 

As far as whether the government-purchase model of the OLPC or the free-market model of the independent electronics companies is better, we'll see. But ironically, I think a lot of the "free-market" companies may go Linux and not Windows.

Oh, and I didn't say the Linux vs. Windows question was unimportant -- I said it was tragic to me that the discussion was OS and not education. If you follow the education argument, then there are terrific reasons to use Linux over Windows in this case (not least being, Windows appears to *break* the OLPC and make it harder for kids to use). 

But that's my whole point: the end should be learning. And speaking as a teacher and someone who works with a lot of teachers, that's not an academic question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are completely different economic questions here that we&#8217;re conflating.</p>
<p>1. Mass-purchased hardware: costs money. Even if the per-unit cost of the OLPC is less, I agree with commenters here that having a government buy up a whole bunch of XO laptops costs taxpayer money, and that it could be spent elsewhere. As for whether that&#8217;s damaging or not, to me it would depend on the government buying the laptop and the specific case of that country, but I also have reservations. The obvious flipside of this, though, is that you can erase the divide between those with money to buy a laptop on their own and those who can&#8217;t. And it&#8217;s not a zero sum game, either; computer investment could be a part of investment in other essential infrastructure, like classroom facilities (which, again, are an issue right here in NYC &#8212; so this is not an elite US vs. the rest of the world situation; everyone has needs, the US just happens to have more means at its disposal).</p>
<p>2. Cheaper commodity laptops: save money &#8212; for those who can afford buying them. We&#8217;re seeing lower-power, lower-cost computers all over the planet. And, incidentally, you don&#8217;t have to have an imaginary distinction about the &#8220;third world&#8221; or &#8220;developing world.&#8221; Have you ever been to the rural US? Or poorer urban communities? Talked to Aboriginal communities in Australia? These are supposedly &#8220;first world&#8221; countries, and we face a lot of the same challenges. (ironically, the difference is that our &#8220;first world&#8221; governments have the money to spend on these problems and often don&#8217;t.) It&#8217;s a global question. And, for better or worse, electronics makers see this as an opportunity. It&#8217;ll be up to consumers in these markets whether or not to buy them. I&#8217;m not necessarily saying this is better or worse than the OLPC model, but it&#8217;s out there, and we&#8217;ll see what the benefit of this is. But the decision, at least, is in the hands of the consumer rather than the government. (Railing against capitalism to me misses some of the real damage of the lending regime of the past decades. It&#8217;s involved the so-called &#8220;developed&#8221; world funding massive socialist projects like dams and such, ultimately to the detriment of the people affected and the finances of the country &#8220;we&#8221; loaned the money to. I&#8217;m all for a discussion of economic ideology, but in this case it&#8217;s just plain abuse by certain world powers, and in the long run has hurt everyone.) </p>
<p>3. Open source software: costs nothing. So, as far as Sugar, Python, all the software that we&#8217;re discussing, it&#8217;s simply NOT stealing resources from, say, water programs. It&#8217;s quite the opposite &#8212; open source software is replacing either pirated software, or expensive licenses. In other words, it&#8217;s saving money. (I don&#8217;t encourage throwing eggs at Microsoft, because I don&#8217;t like getting things thrown at me, but this was the point of a Hungarian student angry about money spent on Microsoft licenses in the education system there.)</p>
<p>To me, #3 is a no-brainer. It costs nothing. It&#8217;s volunteer sweat going into these projects, and the reason is that the people involved with work on Linux, OpenOffice, open source software, etc. believe there&#8217;s benefit for them and others. Anyway, since every country in the world has *some* computer infrastructure, saying that open source, you can&#8217;t say the *software* side of this project is stealing money from other places. </p>
<p>As far as whether the government-purchase model of the OLPC or the free-market model of the independent electronics companies is better, we&#8217;ll see. But ironically, I think a lot of the &#8220;free-market&#8221; companies may go Linux and not Windows.</p>
<p>Oh, and I didn&#8217;t say the Linux vs. Windows question was unimportant &#8212; I said it was tragic to me that the discussion was OS and not education. If you follow the education argument, then there are terrific reasons to use Linux over Windows in this case (not least being, Windows appears to *break* the OLPC and make it harder for kids to use). </p>
<p>But that&#8217;s my whole point: the end should be learning. And speaking as a teacher and someone who works with a lot of teachers, that&#8217;s not an academic question.</p>
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		<title>By: cooptrol</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/#comment-474421</link>
		<dc:creator>cooptrol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 15:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/#comment-474421</guid>
		<description>Hey wait a minute! who told you the kids using OLPC are hungry or badly fed? they are humble working class children but thats it! they watch TV, they go to the cyber coffe shop and are very very aware of the global world. much more than most adults! I don't know if this is bad or good for them, but what I'm sure is that it is the way the world is today, and we must be able to deal with it. They are 1000 times more capable of adapting to ANY OS than us, the regular grown ups. Some opinions in this thread really show a typical 1st world ignorance of how a country like this actually works. I live here and I can clearly see that the OLPC is doing good to our children, without any discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey wait a minute! who told you the kids using OLPC are hungry or badly fed? they are humble working class children but thats it! they watch TV, they go to the cyber coffe shop and are very very aware of the global world. much more than most adults! I don&#8217;t know if this is bad or good for them, but what I&#8217;m sure is that it is the way the world is today, and we must be able to deal with it. They are 1000 times more capable of adapting to ANY OS than us, the regular grown ups. Some opinions in this thread really show a typical 1st world ignorance of how a country like this actually works. I live here and I can clearly see that the OLPC is doing good to our children, without any discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: lematt</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/#comment-474227</link>
		<dc:creator>lematt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 11:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/#comment-474227</guid>
		<description>"Overall, I just can’t help feeling that funds in a developing nation could be better spent on additional teachers or school infrastructure. After all, in ten years these things will be a pile of outdated broken plastic."

i totally agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Overall, I just can’t help feeling that funds in a developing nation could be better spent on additional teachers or school infrastructure. After all, in ten years these things will be a pile of outdated broken plastic.&#8221;</p>
<p>i totally agree.</p>
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		<title>By: Malte Steiner</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/#comment-474211</link>
		<dc:creator>Malte Steiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 11:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/#comment-474211</guid>
		<description>I have to disagree with the article. Linux vs. Windows is not a question you can't put aside easily and ignore. First with Windows the software is not free, Microsoft get 3$ for each laptop. Remember that Apple offered a special OSX version for free?
And while it might be right that the kids don't get Kernel hackers but at least a lot of potential is there plus the extreme costumizability. I think you don't get the idea of open source. On Windows there are always barriers and obstacles, you are not allowed to do this, your computer is in danger etc. I am happy that I didn't grow up with Windows.

Microsoft fight for sustaining mindshare, one big problem for them is when people recognize that they could do their stuff like browsing, writing a letter or a casual game not only with free open source but also on alternative operating systems.
And I fear the day when Windows with its endless security problems is out there on millions laptops. With XP soon to be ceased don't expect them to do any support. Say hello to the next big botnet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to disagree with the article. Linux vs. Windows is not a question you can&#8217;t put aside easily and ignore. First with Windows the software is not free, Microsoft get 3$ for each laptop. Remember that Apple offered a special OSX version for free?<br />
And while it might be right that the kids don&#8217;t get Kernel hackers but at least a lot of potential is there plus the extreme costumizability. I think you don&#8217;t get the idea of open source. On Windows there are always barriers and obstacles, you are not allowed to do this, your computer is in danger etc. I am happy that I didn&#8217;t grow up with Windows.</p>
<p>Microsoft fight for sustaining mindshare, one big problem for them is when people recognize that they could do their stuff like browsing, writing a letter or a casual game not only with free open source but also on alternative operating systems.<br />
And I fear the day when Windows with its endless security problems is out there on millions laptops. With XP soon to be ceased don&#8217;t expect them to do any support. Say hello to the next big botnet.</p>
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		<title>By: M-.-n</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/#comment-474122</link>
		<dc:creator>M-.-n</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 09:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/#comment-474122</guid>
		<description>OMG. Fail.

I never trusted negroponte. Great article Peter, as always.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OMG. Fail.</p>
<p>I never trusted negroponte. Great article Peter, as always.</p>
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		<title>By: lematt</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/#comment-474093</link>
		<dc:creator>lematt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 08:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/#comment-474093</guid>
		<description>i think this OLPC project is pointless. why would a poor kid who is hungry and thirsty want to geek out some python ???!!! 

it's crazy. for me: this project is made by nerds who hide themselves behind the education and learning thing to realize their technological fantasies.

by the way: learning with/on a computer is good ... when you end up in science, business or working for the "computer nerds using" industry: IT, games, software,... if not: it most of the time makes you only a consumer, eating western imperialist culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think this OLPC project is pointless. why would a poor kid who is hungry and thirsty want to geek out some python ???!!! </p>
<p>it&#8217;s crazy. for me: this project is made by nerds who hide themselves behind the education and learning thing to realize their technological fantasies.</p>
<p>by the way: learning with/on a computer is good &#8230; when you end up in science, business or working for the &#8220;computer nerds using&#8221; industry: IT, games, software,&#8230; if not: it most of the time makes you only a consumer, eating western imperialist culture.</p>
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		<title>By: OLPC Linkfest &#171; Disparate</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/#comment-474004</link>
		<dc:creator>OLPC Linkfest &#171; Disparate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 06:25:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/#comment-474004</guid>
		<description>[...] Create Digital Music » OLPC’s Sugar and Music Learning: Education, Not OS, is the Point [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Create Digital Music » OLPC’s Sugar and Music Learning: Education, Not OS, is the Point [...]</p>
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		<title>By: OLPC Linkfest &#171; Disparate</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/#comment-473956</link>
		<dc:creator>OLPC Linkfest &#171; Disparate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 05:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/19/olpcs-sugar-and-music-learning-education-not-os-is-the-point/#comment-473956</guid>
		<description>[...] Create Digital Music &#187; OLPC&#8217;s Sugar and Music Learning: Education, Not OS, is the Point [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Create Digital Music &raquo; OLPC&rsquo;s Sugar and Music Learning: Education, Not OS, is the Point [...]</p>
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