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	<title>Comments on: Making Music with Fractals</title>
	<atom:link href="http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/03/making-music-with-fractals/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/03/making-music-with-fractals/</link>
	<description>The latest gear, software, and techniques for electronic music production and performance</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:35:03 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/03/making-music-with-fractals/comment-page-1/#comment-970198</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 12:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/?p=5232#comment-970198</guid>
		<description>Could this project be of interest to any of you?

I am looking to hire a deveoper. All offers and prices considered.

It is a fractal sound synthesis for the web:

http://www.odesk.com/jobs/Sound-synthesis-website-create-simple-tone-sound-file-perhaps-generated-Flash-Java-CSound-interface_~~1f24680f37d9f532</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could this project be of interest to any of you?</p>
<p>I am looking to hire a deveoper. All offers and prices considered.</p>
<p>It is a fractal sound synthesis for the web:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.odesk.com/jobs/Sound-synthesis-website-create-simple-tone-sound-file-perhaps-generated-Flash-Java-CSound-interface_~~1f24680f37d9f532" rel="nofollow">http://www.odesk.com/jobs/Sound-synthesis-website-create-simple-tone-sound-file-perhaps-generated-Flash-Java-CSound-interface_~~1f24680f37d9f532</a></p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Urbanski</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/03/making-music-with-fractals/comment-page-1/#comment-821550</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Urbanski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 19:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/?p=5232#comment-821550</guid>
		<description>From Veqtor&#039;s corner: Snowflakes

Composed using Per NÃ¸rgÃ¥rd&#039;s fractal infinity series:
a(2n) = -a(n), a(2n+1) = a(n) + 1, a(0)=0.
Every four notes in the primary voice, the modus is transposed into a neighbouring one.
It was made using Max/MSP, the Modal Objects Library by Vince Manzo and Fredrik Olofsson&#039;s f0.noergaard external. Sonically the voices are performed by Vember Audio&#039;s Surge. The glitch noises are from DEVSND&#039;s Arp 2600 and Bent 808 libraries, processed by DtBlkFx, Buffer Override and Reaktor.
Tempo is 120180

http://veqtor.blogspot.com/2009/03/snowflakes.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Veqtor&#8217;s corner: Snowflakes</p>
<p>Composed using Per NÃ¸rgÃ¥rd&#8217;s fractal infinity series:<br />
a(2n) = -a(n), a(2n+1) = a(n) + 1, a(0)=0.<br />
Every four notes in the primary voice, the modus is transposed into a neighbouring one.<br />
It was made using Max/MSP, the Modal Objects Library by Vince Manzo and Fredrik Olofsson&#8217;s f0.noergaard external. Sonically the voices are performed by Vember Audio&#8217;s Surge. The glitch noises are from DEVSND&#8217;s Arp 2600 and Bent 808 libraries, processed by DtBlkFx, Buffer Override and Reaktor.<br />
Tempo is 120180</p>
<p><a href="http://veqtor.blogspot.com/2009/03/snowflakes.html" rel="nofollow">http://veqtor.blogspot.com/2009/03/snowflakes.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: runagate</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/03/making-music-with-fractals/comment-page-1/#comment-819677</link>
		<dc:creator>runagate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 18:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/?p=5232#comment-819677</guid>
		<description>http://www.tunesmithy.connectfree.co.uk/

This is the page for the wondrous and now quite hoary Fractal Tune Smithy which I used the free version of for a very long time and bought last year (I think I got the $35 version)

&quot;What&#039;s a Fractal Tune? 

There are many types of fractal, and one type consists of a triangle, with several smaller triangles added to each of its sides, and yet smaller triangles attached to each of those, and so on. The background of this page shows what it&#039;s like. It&#039;s called the Koch snowflake. 

So why not use musical notes, adding smaller notes within each one, and smaller ones within those, and so on. 

Or, easier in music, go the other way, and start with a small pattern and build it up to larger and larger structures.&quot;

I also use it to re-tune multitimbral multiple-instances of VST plug-ins in microtonal .scala temperaments via MidiOx.  Very, very useful and the developer is incredibly nice and very helpful.  A legendary program!

So that&#039;s another way of looking at fractals in music.  And he has many a link to other projects there.

Here&#039;s a link:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;source=web&amp;ct=res&amp;cd=5&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kvraudio.com%2Fforum%2Fprintview.php%3Ft%3D214851%26start%3D0&amp;ei=L7eySe35Nom-MoPyiOwE&amp;usg=AFQjCNFc68UYbT8uYtGVA0kM65b8MFnITg&amp;sig2=ajeLl-GUBTQUzVq5SyyjGQ

to a KVR thread, down for maintainance at the moment, linking to liqih&#039;s freeware Kaotica VST effect filter and midi chaos LFO

have fun!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.tunesmithy.connectfree.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://www.tunesmithy.connectfree.co.uk/</a></p>
<p>This is the page for the wondrous and now quite hoary Fractal Tune Smithy which I used the free version of for a very long time and bought last year (I think I got the $35 version)</p>
<p>&#8220;What&#8217;s a Fractal Tune? </p>
<p>There are many types of fractal, and one type consists of a triangle, with several smaller triangles added to each of its sides, and yet smaller triangles attached to each of those, and so on. The background of this page shows what it&#8217;s like. It&#8217;s called the Koch snowflake. </p>
<p>So why not use musical notes, adding smaller notes within each one, and smaller ones within those, and so on. </p>
<p>Or, easier in music, go the other way, and start with a small pattern and build it up to larger and larger structures.&#8221;</p>
<p>I also use it to re-tune multitimbral multiple-instances of VST plug-ins in microtonal .scala temperaments via MidiOx.  Very, very useful and the developer is incredibly nice and very helpful.  A legendary program!</p>
<p>So that&#8217;s another way of looking at fractals in music.  And he has many a link to other projects there.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a link:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;source=web&amp;ct=res&amp;cd=5&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kvraudio.com%2Fforum%2Fprintview.php%3Ft%3D214851%26start%3D0&amp;ei=L7eySe35Nom-MoPyiOwE&amp;usg=AFQjCNFc68UYbT8uYtGVA0kM65b8MFnITg&amp;sig2=ajeLl-GUBTQUzVq5SyyjGQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;source=web&amp;ct=res&amp;cd=5&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kvraudio.com%2Fforum%2Fprintview.php%3Ft%3D214851%26start%3D0&amp;ei=L7eySe35Nom-MoPyiOwE&amp;usg=AFQjCNFc68UYbT8uYtGVA0kM65b8MFnITg&amp;sig2=ajeLl-GUBTQUzVq5SyyjGQ</a></p>
<p>to a KVR thread, down for maintainance at the moment, linking to liqih&#8217;s freeware Kaotica VST effect filter and midi chaos LFO</p>
<p>have fun!</p>
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		<title>By: Fractal Sequences As Sound &#171; Raintone</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/03/making-music-with-fractals/comment-page-1/#comment-818900</link>
		<dc:creator>Fractal Sequences As Sound &#171; Raintone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 22:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/?p=5232#comment-818900</guid>
		<description>[...] by this article on CDM, and Terran Olsonâ€™s work in particular, I dug into creating a more general version of the fractal [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] by this article on CDM, and Terran Olsonâ€™s work in particular, I dug into creating a more general version of the fractal [...]</p>
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		<title>By: J.D. Northrup</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/03/making-music-with-fractals/comment-page-1/#comment-817832</link>
		<dc:creator>J.D. Northrup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 23:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/?p=5232#comment-817832</guid>
		<description>Peter, inspired by this article and Terran Olson&#039;s work, I dug into creating a more general version of the fractal set synthesis he outlines.

I&#039;ve posted the code, and some example .wav files on my site:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://raintone.com/code/genfractal/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; http://raintone.com/code/genfractal/&lt;/a&gt;

I&#039;d love to see what other people can do with this stuff!

Provide the rules and it generates recursive fractal sound based on it.

For example, the arguments &#039;1 101 000&#039; lead to the following sequence:

1
101
101000101
... (ie the Cantor Set)

You can provide any binary pattern you want, and it expands into a recursive fractal .wav file.


Enjoy,
-jd</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, inspired by this article and Terran Olson&#8217;s work, I dug into creating a more general version of the fractal set synthesis he outlines.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve posted the code, and some example .wav files on my site:<br />
<a href="http://raintone.com/code/genfractal/" rel="nofollow"> </a><a href="http://raintone.com/code/genfractal/" rel="nofollow">http://raintone.com/code/genfractal/</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;d love to see what other people can do with this stuff!</p>
<p>Provide the rules and it generates recursive fractal sound based on it.</p>
<p>For example, the arguments &#8216;1 101 000&#8242; lead to the following sequence:</p>
<p>1<br />
101<br />
101000101<br />
&#8230; (ie the Cantor Set)</p>
<p>You can provide any binary pattern you want, and it expands into a recursive fractal .wav file.</p>
<p>Enjoy,<br />
-jd</p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/03/making-music-with-fractals/comment-page-1/#comment-817738</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 21:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/?p=5232#comment-817738</guid>
		<description>Fractal behavior isn&#039;t just a visual phenomena; our heartbeat rhythms show fractal behavior in how they vary.  The so called &quot;Drunk Walk&quot;, or random brownian motion is related to the fractal behavior that produces coastlines and clouds.  

I devoted one section of my thesis to applying fractal behavior to music analysis of improvised music, and it contains an overview of fractal scaling behavior.  It&#039;s online at
http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~lselden/ (pg. 21)

Other people that have used fractal analysis for music include Sebastian Streich, who uses fractal scaling behavior as a way to measure the &quot;danceability&quot; of songs in his thesis, and Jafari et all who analyze Bach (both cited below).

I think fractals show up in music much more often.  As Ken Marsley suggests above, any music that has some heirarchical structure in which multiple levels (bar, phrase, section) share some rules or tendancies has a fractal dimension (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausdorff_dimension).

References:

Streich, S. â€œMusic Complexity a multi-faceted description of audio content.â€ 2007.

Jafari, G. R, P. Pedram, and L. Hedayatifar. â€œLong-range correlation and multifractality
in Bach&#039;s Inventions pitches.â€ 0704.0726 (2007). 15 Dec 2008
.

Peng C-K, Hausdorff JM, and Goldberger AL. â€œDetrended Fluctuation Analysis (DFA).â€
Fractal Mechanisms in Neural Control: Human Heartbeat and Gait Dynamics in
Health and Disease. 15 Dec 2008
.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fractal behavior isn&#8217;t just a visual phenomena; our heartbeat rhythms show fractal behavior in how they vary.  The so called &#8220;Drunk Walk&#8221;, or random brownian motion is related to the fractal behavior that produces coastlines and clouds.  </p>
<p>I devoted one section of my thesis to applying fractal behavior to music analysis of improvised music, and it contains an overview of fractal scaling behavior.  It&#8217;s online at<br />
<a href="http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~lselden/" rel="nofollow">http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~lselden/</a> (pg. 21)</p>
<p>Other people that have used fractal analysis for music include Sebastian Streich, who uses fractal scaling behavior as a way to measure the &#8220;danceability&#8221; of songs in his thesis, and Jafari et all who analyze Bach (both cited below).</p>
<p>I think fractals show up in music much more often.  As Ken Marsley suggests above, any music that has some heirarchical structure in which multiple levels (bar, phrase, section) share some rules or tendancies has a fractal dimension (see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausdorff_dimension)" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausdorff_dimension)</a>.</p>
<p>References:</p>
<p>Streich, S. â€œMusic Complexity a multi-faceted description of audio content.â€ 2007.</p>
<p>Jafari, G. R, P. Pedram, and L. Hedayatifar. â€œLong-range correlation and multifractality<br />
in Bach&#8217;s Inventions pitches.â€ 0704.0726 (2007). 15 Dec 2008<br />
.</p>
<p>Peng C-K, Hausdorff JM, and Goldberger AL. â€œDetrended Fluctuation Analysis (DFA).â€<br />
Fractal Mechanisms in Neural Control: Human Heartbeat and Gait Dynamics in<br />
Health and Disease. 15 Dec 2008<br />
.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Arsenault</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/03/making-music-with-fractals/comment-page-1/#comment-816340</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Arsenault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 22:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/?p=5232#comment-816340</guid>
		<description>Back in 1999 again. Yo Kubota was the man with his Mandelbrot Music software. He seems to have dropped from sight. I remember it being pretty cool, but little else. There&#039;s a few examples of the midi he generated on this page: http://www.texaschapbookpress.com/magellanslog48/Kubota/kubotamidi.htm

Googling fractal music seemed to time warp straight to &#039;99 on every hit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back in 1999 again. Yo Kubota was the man with his Mandelbrot Music software. He seems to have dropped from sight. I remember it being pretty cool, but little else. There&#8217;s a few examples of the midi he generated on this page: <a href="http://www.texaschapbookpress.com/magellanslog48/Kubota/kubotamidi.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.texaschapbookpress.com/magellanslog48/Kubota/kubotamidi.htm</a></p>
<p>Googling fractal music seemed to time warp straight to &#8216;99 on every hit.</p>
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		<title>By: thesimplicity</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/03/making-music-with-fractals/comment-page-1/#comment-816158</link>
		<dc:creator>thesimplicity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 17:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/?p=5232#comment-816158</guid>
		<description>Ben Schachter released an amazing album called &quot;Fractals&quot;... it&#039;s basically generative jazz.  It&#039;s VERY interesting what you realize what&#039;s going on structurally.  Each song is sort of a section of the previous track, but magnified and focused, until it comes back around to the original track.  It&#039;s very crazy.

http://cdbaby.com/cd/schachter</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben Schachter released an amazing album called &#8220;Fractals&#8221;&#8230; it&#8217;s basically generative jazz.  It&#8217;s VERY interesting what you realize what&#8217;s going on structurally.  Each song is sort of a section of the previous track, but magnified and focused, until it comes back around to the original track.  It&#8217;s very crazy.</p>
<p><a href="http://cdbaby.com/cd/schachter" rel="nofollow">http://cdbaby.com/cd/schachter</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ken Marsley</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/03/making-music-with-fractals/comment-page-1/#comment-816051</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Marsley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 15:45:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/?p=5232#comment-816051</guid>
		<description>4/4 house or techno rhythm tracks have implications similar to the visual representation of the cantor set.  Think of snare hits on the 2nd and 4th beats, and then the weight of bars 2 and 4 (and then 6 and 8) in a straight 8-bar phrase.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>4/4 house or techno rhythm tracks have implications similar to the visual representation of the cantor set.  Think of snare hits on the 2nd and 4th beats, and then the weight of bars 2 and 4 (and then 6 and 8) in a straight 8-bar phrase.</p>
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		<title>By: nick kent</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/03/making-music-with-fractals/comment-page-1/#comment-816006</link>
		<dc:creator>nick kent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/?p=5232#comment-816006</guid>
		<description>My view is that this direction of exploration, at least on the surface is interesting to a degree but literally not going anywhere. Regarding fractals, when mapped to music in some way they they can create some interesting musical texture for moments but never a very interesting composition per se. Their self-similar nature brings some moments or ambient backgrounds of musical texture that don&#039;t go anywhere since there is no progression, just mild variation. The self similarity does work on a macro scale because in time one comes to realize progression or any real form won&#039;t happen. But maybe someone does want that as a goal. More power to them

I&#039;m not terribly impressed with any promise of graphics into music per se either. One is taking a space dimension, say width and saying that is equal to time. I&#039;m not convinced that cuts it when making a claim, it&#039;s abstracted beyond an analogy. Though one can always get attention by saying &quot;want to hear what this image sounds like&quot; as if that was actually happening. Images don&#039;t intrinsically have a time dimension unless they are moving images. 

On the other hand I&#039;m all in favor of one aspect of MetaSynth. The ability to encode sound into a graphic and then manipulate it with graphic tools is great. I wish their engine was more accurate as to what goes in comes back out sounding much like it should, but still it&#039;s a good tool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My view is that this direction of exploration, at least on the surface is interesting to a degree but literally not going anywhere. Regarding fractals, when mapped to music in some way they they can create some interesting musical texture for moments but never a very interesting composition per se. Their self-similar nature brings some moments or ambient backgrounds of musical texture that don&#8217;t go anywhere since there is no progression, just mild variation. The self similarity does work on a macro scale because in time one comes to realize progression or any real form won&#8217;t happen. But maybe someone does want that as a goal. More power to them</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not terribly impressed with any promise of graphics into music per se either. One is taking a space dimension, say width and saying that is equal to time. I&#8217;m not convinced that cuts it when making a claim, it&#8217;s abstracted beyond an analogy. Though one can always get attention by saying &#8220;want to hear what this image sounds like&#8221; as if that was actually happening. Images don&#8217;t intrinsically have a time dimension unless they are moving images. </p>
<p>On the other hand I&#8217;m all in favor of one aspect of MetaSynth. The ability to encode sound into a graphic and then manipulate it with graphic tools is great. I wish their engine was more accurate as to what goes in comes back out sounding much like it should, but still it&#8217;s a good tool.</p>
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