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	<title>Comments on: iPhone 3.0 SDK &#8220;Library Access&#8221; Won&#8217;t Allow Effects, DJ Apps, Games?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/30/iphone-30-sdk-library-access-wont-allow-effects-dj-apps-games/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/30/iphone-30-sdk-library-access-wont-allow-effects-dj-apps-games/</link>
	<description>The latest gear, software, and techniques for electronic music production and performance</description>
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		<title>By: Peter Kirn</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/30/iphone-30-sdk-library-access-wont-allow-effects-dj-apps-games/comment-page-1/#comment-878189</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kirn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 17:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/?p=5482#comment-878189</guid>
		<description>Quick note - my name is actually &quot;KIRN&quot; not &quot;KIM&quot; -- it&#039;s a font thing, almost impossible to tell!

Actually, I don&#039;t believe the issues are legal. There are various DJ apps on the Mac that have iTunes library access, and have been for some time. I can imagine the reason being either control, technical (there&#039;s something to that), or some combination.

As far as Google Android, I think it&#039;s best not to see it as a direct competitor -- there are lots of differences -- but of course we&#039;re looking at both. And it does appear that Android will improve over time. I know access to native code is something Google has promised, and already 1.5 SDK is a whole lot better for audio. Once you get native library access, in fact, an app that works on both Android and iPhone - with different code on the top level - should become more feasible. That&#039;ll put further pressure on each to open up APIs, because, for instance, you could get features on Android not on iPhone as in this case (or visa versa).

Both platforms are really young, so I do hope all of this improves down the road.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quick note &#8211; my name is actually &#8220;KIRN&#8221; not &#8220;KIM&#8221; &#8212; it&#8217;s a font thing, almost impossible to tell!</p>
<p>Actually, I don&#8217;t believe the issues are legal. There are various DJ apps on the Mac that have iTunes library access, and have been for some time. I can imagine the reason being either control, technical (there&#8217;s something to that), or some combination.</p>
<p>As far as Google Android, I think it&#8217;s best not to see it as a direct competitor &#8212; there are lots of differences &#8212; but of course we&#8217;re looking at both. And it does appear that Android will improve over time. I know access to native code is something Google has promised, and already 1.5 SDK is a whole lot better for audio. Once you get native library access, in fact, an app that works on both Android and iPhone &#8211; with different code on the top level &#8211; should become more feasible. That&#8217;ll put further pressure on each to open up APIs, because, for instance, you could get features on Android not on iPhone as in this case (or visa versa).</p>
<p>Both platforms are really young, so I do hope all of this improves down the road.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry Mahabub</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/30/iphone-30-sdk-library-access-wont-allow-effects-dj-apps-games/comment-page-1/#comment-878183</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry Mahabub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 17:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/?p=5482#comment-878183</guid>
		<description>I am in full agreement with Peter Kim on the legal side of things.  The only legal issue is that one can&#039;t &quot;permanently&quot; alter the content, however, if an application was to simply process the audio in real-time, much like GenAudio&#039;s AstoundStereo Expander software does, and when you turn the processing off it remains unchanged, then legal issues go buh bye!  In reality, the way to skin the cat would be to form a licensing relationship with Apple, and this can take some time.  My company has been patiently waiting for a kernel extension for iPhone since we became beta developers for version 1.0...Nada, and I do not anticipate that changing anytime soon.  Likewise, we are looking to develop an Android app as well, however, the problems that are present for doing this sort of processing on an iPhone are not present for the Google phone, and vice versa!  It&#039;s like they want to have complete control over certain kinds of applications, and unfortunately, one of them being audio DSP apps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am in full agreement with Peter Kim on the legal side of things.  The only legal issue is that one can&#8217;t &#8220;permanently&#8221; alter the content, however, if an application was to simply process the audio in real-time, much like GenAudio&#8217;s AstoundStereo Expander software does, and when you turn the processing off it remains unchanged, then legal issues go buh bye!  In reality, the way to skin the cat would be to form a licensing relationship with Apple, and this can take some time.  My company has been patiently waiting for a kernel extension for iPhone since we became beta developers for version 1.0&#8230;Nada, and I do not anticipate that changing anytime soon.  Likewise, we are looking to develop an Android app as well, however, the problems that are present for doing this sort of processing on an iPhone are not present for the Google phone, and vice versa!  It&#8217;s like they want to have complete control over certain kinds of applications, and unfortunately, one of them being audio DSP apps.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Kirn</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/30/iphone-30-sdk-library-access-wont-allow-effects-dj-apps-games/comment-page-1/#comment-851779</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kirn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 00:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/?p=5482#comment-851779</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a fundamental difference than the app distribution on the iPhone.

It says Google is dropping the app *as distributor*.

But you can 
a) download apps from other stores
b) download (and purchase, if you like) apps directly from the developer

Both without breaking any kind of legal restrictions on the device. It&#039;s simply not so with the iPhone, which requires jailbreaking (a potentially illegal act) to purchase apps through any outlet other than Apple.

I think Google has done a poor job communicating on this, and I still don&#039;t understand why carriers are opposed to tethering -- why not just charge extra for it and use it as a valuable revenue source? You could even likely cap bandwidth consumption, as typical tethering users are going to want only light use.

But as a supposed counterexample of openness on Google Android, sorry, you&#039;ve got it backwards entirely. It&#039;s another illustration of the difference in distribution models. If you don&#039;t like it here, you can go around Google, and that to me is the way it should be.

No, I think the main problem with Android remains a lack of greater developer *functionality* -- the question of whether you can develop an app with the broad set of capabilities a Linux app might get, for instance -- and the ongoing lack of handsets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a fundamental difference than the app distribution on the iPhone.</p>
<p>It says Google is dropping the app *as distributor*.</p>
<p>But you can<br />
a) download apps from other stores<br />
b) download (and purchase, if you like) apps directly from the developer</p>
<p>Both without breaking any kind of legal restrictions on the device. It&#8217;s simply not so with the iPhone, which requires jailbreaking (a potentially illegal act) to purchase apps through any outlet other than Apple.</p>
<p>I think Google has done a poor job communicating on this, and I still don&#8217;t understand why carriers are opposed to tethering &#8212; why not just charge extra for it and use it as a valuable revenue source? You could even likely cap bandwidth consumption, as typical tethering users are going to want only light use.</p>
<p>But as a supposed counterexample of openness on Google Android, sorry, you&#8217;ve got it backwards entirely. It&#8217;s another illustration of the difference in distribution models. If you don&#8217;t like it here, you can go around Google, and that to me is the way it should be.</p>
<p>No, I think the main problem with Android remains a lack of greater developer *functionality* &#8212; the question of whether you can develop an app with the broad set of capabilities a Linux app might get, for instance &#8212; and the ongoing lack of handsets.</p>
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		<title>By: autoy</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/30/iphone-30-sdk-library-access-wont-allow-effects-dj-apps-games/comment-page-1/#comment-850129</link>
		<dc:creator>autoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/?p=5482#comment-850129</guid>
		<description>Tethering apps beign pulled from Android for example. So much for openness http://is.gd/pOD2</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tethering apps beign pulled from Android for example. So much for openness <a href="http://is.gd/pOD2" rel="nofollow">http://is.gd/pOD2</a></p>
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		<title>By: I-Phone 3.0 #Fail â€“ Dj para I-phone nÃ£o Ã© possÃ­vel &#171; www.ilankriger.net</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/30/iphone-30-sdk-library-access-wont-allow-effects-dj-apps-games/comment-page-1/#comment-849846</link>
		<dc:creator>I-Phone 3.0 #Fail â€“ Dj para I-phone nÃ£o Ã© possÃ­vel &#171; www.ilankriger.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 13:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/?p=5482#comment-849846</guid>
		<description>[...] Create Digital Music e [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Create Digital Music e [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Cole</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/30/iphone-30-sdk-library-access-wont-allow-effects-dj-apps-games/comment-page-1/#comment-849618</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Cole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 06:57:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/?p=5482#comment-849618</guid>
		<description>Actually, I&#039;m feeling very positive right now about the iPhone platform. We have Mixtikl running (at last!) on real live devices; UI responsiveness is good, sound is fab and the transition from the simulator was painless (estimated time to submit to App store: 2-3 months from now...).

I agree that it really is a shame we can&#039;t do everything we want (my pet grievance: why is it so hard to share data with your desktop Mac or other iPhones!), but today my glass feels half full :) and I&#039;m looking forward to finding interesting ways to work within the boundaries imposed by the platform.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I&#8217;m feeling very positive right now about the iPhone platform. We have Mixtikl running (at last!) on real live devices; UI responsiveness is good, sound is fab and the transition from the simulator was painless (estimated time to submit to App store: 2-3 months from now&#8230;).</p>
<p>I agree that it really is a shame we can&#8217;t do everything we want (my pet grievance: why is it so hard to share data with your desktop Mac or other iPhones!), but today my glass feels half full :) and I&#8217;m looking forward to finding interesting ways to work within the boundaries imposed by the platform.</p>
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		<title>By: Jordan314</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/30/iphone-30-sdk-library-access-wont-allow-effects-dj-apps-games/comment-page-1/#comment-849504</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan314</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 03:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/?p=5482#comment-849504</guid>
		<description>I agree with Peter. There&#039;s a lot of speculation out there that 3.0 will allow for serious DJing. For instance:
http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2009/03/17/5-reasons-apples-iphone-30-software-kicks-ass-for-music/
And it doesn&#039;t appear to be the case, at least with the iPod library, anyway. If you include mp3s in your app itself, that&#039;s another story, but that&#039;s also a hog of an app.
I suppose one reason they want to limit this is to block potential file sharing apps, i.e. phone-to-phone mp3 transfers, but without the ability to write to the library anyway that seems silly.
You can control the ipod player or make your own music player, and perhaps you can play them both at the same time and crossfade that way, but you&#039;re not going to be able to beat match, pitch shift or time stretch. That&#039;s a big disappointment. (You do have access to metadata though so at least there will be some new playlist / organization / recommendation apps).
Hopefully if the Android or the Pre continue to innovate and compete with their music and file system support, Apple will be forced to open up the phone even more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Peter. There&#8217;s a lot of speculation out there that 3.0 will allow for serious DJing. For instance:<br />
<a href="http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2009/03/17/5-reasons-apples-iphone-30-software-kicks-ass-for-music/" rel="nofollow">http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2009/03/17/5-reasons-apples-iphone-30-software-kicks-ass-for-music/</a><br />
And it doesn&#8217;t appear to be the case, at least with the iPod library, anyway. If you include mp3s in your app itself, that&#8217;s another story, but that&#8217;s also a hog of an app.<br />
I suppose one reason they want to limit this is to block potential file sharing apps, i.e. phone-to-phone mp3 transfers, but without the ability to write to the library anyway that seems silly.<br />
You can control the ipod player or make your own music player, and perhaps you can play them both at the same time and crossfade that way, but you&#8217;re not going to be able to beat match, pitch shift or time stretch. That&#8217;s a big disappointment. (You do have access to metadata though so at least there will be some new playlist / organization / recommendation apps).<br />
Hopefully if the Android or the Pre continue to innovate and compete with their music and file system support, Apple will be forced to open up the phone even more.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Kirn</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/30/iphone-30-sdk-library-access-wont-allow-effects-dj-apps-games/comment-page-1/#comment-849330</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kirn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 23:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/?p=5482#comment-849330</guid>
		<description>@richardl:
Technical problems - maybe. But you can provide post-decode audio buffer access. 

Legal problems - no way. The data is already in the audio buffer. And Apple isn&#039;t providing simple playback controls. There&#039;s no legal issue to a non-iTunes app playing a file already on the device.

Most importantly, on both counts these capabilities are already present in desktop software.

That said, to me these limitations *aren&#039;t* actually deal-killers in the way some of the Android gaps are. There are still some amazing possibilities for iPhone apps that use other capabilities. Actually, even on the Android I could see some creative uses of just doing media playback. So, you know, developers will continue to do what&#039;s possible. I just thought the misconception about this capability wasn&#039;t necessarily productive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@richardl:<br />
Technical problems &#8211; maybe. But you can provide post-decode audio buffer access. </p>
<p>Legal problems &#8211; no way. The data is already in the audio buffer. And Apple isn&#8217;t providing simple playback controls. There&#8217;s no legal issue to a non-iTunes app playing a file already on the device.</p>
<p>Most importantly, on both counts these capabilities are already present in desktop software.</p>
<p>That said, to me these limitations *aren&#8217;t* actually deal-killers in the way some of the Android gaps are. There are still some amazing possibilities for iPhone apps that use other capabilities. Actually, even on the Android I could see some creative uses of just doing media playback. So, you know, developers will continue to do what&#8217;s possible. I just thought the misconception about this capability wasn&#8217;t necessarily productive.</p>
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		<title>By: richardl</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/30/iphone-30-sdk-library-access-wont-allow-effects-dj-apps-games/comment-page-1/#comment-849253</link>
		<dc:creator>richardl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/?p=5482#comment-849253</guid>
		<description>Besides Apple&#039;s megalomaniacal desire for control there may be technical and legal reasons why they don&#039;t or can&#039;t provide access to the audio playback data on the iPhone/iPod Touch. The main technical issue that comes to mind is that audio decoding and playback is normally done by dedicated hardware. (iPhone 3.0 will include software decoders too) A hardware audio output chain may not provide for access to the data buffers prior to sending the data to the DAC. 

I will leave it to your imagination what sort of legal impediments might get in the way of allowing access to content that is licensed for sale through iTunes for audio playback. Of course, those legal restrictions shouldn&#039;t apply to your content, but infectious protectionism has been part of the rules of the game with the iPod since start of the iTunes Music Store.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Besides Apple&#8217;s megalomaniacal desire for control there may be technical and legal reasons why they don&#8217;t or can&#8217;t provide access to the audio playback data on the iPhone/iPod Touch. The main technical issue that comes to mind is that audio decoding and playback is normally done by dedicated hardware. (iPhone 3.0 will include software decoders too) A hardware audio output chain may not provide for access to the data buffers prior to sending the data to the DAC. </p>
<p>I will leave it to your imagination what sort of legal impediments might get in the way of allowing access to content that is licensed for sale through iTunes for audio playback. Of course, those legal restrictions shouldn&#8217;t apply to your content, but infectious protectionism has been part of the rules of the game with the iPod since start of the iTunes Music Store.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Kirn</title>
		<link>http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/03/30/iphone-30-sdk-library-access-wont-allow-effects-dj-apps-games/comment-page-1/#comment-849216</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kirn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://createdigitalmusic.com/?p=5482#comment-849216</guid>
		<description>Well, right, precisely -- the relatively easy access to sound/DSP, the multitouch screen, and the presence of an FPU all enable those apps on iPhone and there&#039;s no equivalent on Android. Not yet. On the other hand, the iPhone&#039;s first year didn&#039;t even *have* an official SDK, so we&#039;ll have to see how both platforms mature.

But in the meantime, yeah, I&#039;m a big fan of what&#039;s available now and those apps specifically.

As to Adrian&#039;s netbook comment, that means that for Android to be a compelling netbook OS as Google seems to hope, it is going to need more functionality along the lines of what you get developing for normal Linux distros.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, right, precisely &#8212; the relatively easy access to sound/DSP, the multitouch screen, and the presence of an FPU all enable those apps on iPhone and there&#8217;s no equivalent on Android. Not yet. On the other hand, the iPhone&#8217;s first year didn&#8217;t even *have* an official SDK, so we&#8217;ll have to see how both platforms mature.</p>
<p>But in the meantime, yeah, I&#8217;m a big fan of what&#8217;s available now and those apps specifically.</p>
<p>As to Adrian&#8217;s netbook comment, that means that for Android to be a compelling netbook OS as Google seems to hope, it is going to need more functionality along the lines of what you get developing for normal Linux distros.</p>
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