How Propellerhead’s New “Ignition Key” Authorization for Record Works
Propellerhead’s upcoming Record has attracted a lot of attention and discussion, but some of the forum chatter has centered on the new authorization scheme. Record will in fact use a hardware dongle as a key. Propellerhead obviously anticipated a response, as on their own site, they concede: “Wait – a USB device? You mean… a dongle? Are you insane?” But in the current description, and the teasers over the weekend, they also promised a “different” way of doing authorization – a promise that in the short term may have made people even more confused.
At the risk of causing a flame war, let’s at least look at exactly how the authorization works. Authorization is, of course, always annoying to paid users on some level, and I expect some of you will still be unhappy with the USB key approach. Looking at it on balance, there are some advantages in certain situations, when compared to software-only authorization, and disadvantages in others.
This is a preview only of a non-shipping product, based on information Propellerhead has shared and my own experience. It’s also not intended to be an opinion piece; I just want to look at the big picture in the hopes that the online discussions can be better-informed.
First, to clear up a misconception: the authorization does not slow down boot time. In fact, Record is one of the fastest-booting audio apps I’ve seen. (Note: any comment about performance is just speculative, as we don’t have a final build yet. But this is partly objective; remember, by not supporting plug-ins, Record doesn’t have to slog through your plug-in folder, something you can leave to other tools.)
The first time you load Record, you’ll see something like this if your USB key isn’t plugged in:
With the USB key, you won’t actually see that dialog again. In fact, if Record doesn’t see the key, it will give you an opportunity to insert it:
What’s demo mode? If you can’t authorize Record, it will switch to “demo” mode. (One thing it won’t do is arbitrarily quit or something stupid like that, which I have seen some hardware-based systems do.) In demo mode, you can do everything except open files. This also means the demo you’ll try at dealers or on your own machine will be more fully-featured.
What if something happens to your key during a set? If you’re onstage and someone breaks your key, for instance, you can continue to use Record you can’t just open any new files.
What if you don’t have your key? The backup method is Internet authorization. An Internet authorization is just as full-featured as using the USB key. So, for instance, if you’re at home or in a studio and don’t want to fill up a USB port with the key, you can simply use Internet authorization.
I asked Propellerhead when the Internet connection has to be active, and they reported that there are two times:
1. When you startup the software
2. Each time you open a file
This is just based on my own tests and conversations; see the full discussion at the Props site:
So, for those of you keeping score at home, here’s what I currently understand as the tradeoffs of this approach?
Why It’s Good News
Before you start ranting in comments, some readers have already noted an advantage of this system: it makes it very possible to use Record on lots of computers. Got a couple of desktop machines, a computer at the studio, a netbook, your significant other’s machine, a laptop, and then the computer at your band-mate’s house? With most software authorization schemes – challenge and response and so on – you’re out of luck, because you have two or three authorizations to play with. This also means if a drive fails or a software authorization is lost, you have to use a (limited) supply of existing authorizations or find a serial number. With the key, you can move between all those locations, then get to someone who has a new machine and download the file there, plug in, and go. (Yes, I know, this is also possible with open source / free software, which is an excellent argument for having some sort of free host as your common denominator, but it’s still an advantage for Record.)
Why It Beats Other USB Keys
Many music software developers, of course, use USB keys, and each have their own implementations. But Propellerhead have themselves noted some of the complaints:
- Software that immediately stops working if a key is disconnected or breaks, or that immediately loses the ability to save
- Companies that charge extra for the dongle
- Companies that charge you a significant portion or the full cost of a product if you break or lose your key. (Oh, by the way, if you’re out there and that’s your policy, I have some really, really special words for you.)
- Some software requires both a USB key and challenge/response authorization of each individual machine … yeah, again, special words, not family-friendly.
Propellerhead have addressed all of these issues. Most importantly, the replacement policy: you’ll only need to pay a nominal fee to get a replacement. That doesn’t make this a perfect solution (see below), but it does beat a lot of the schemes used by other developers with hardware keys.
The basic idea of a USB key is to work like a car key, to make ownership physical and fairly straightforward. Propellerhead have said that they just didn’t like other implementations out there.
So, yes, that’s the good news. But that still leaves some complains.
Why It’s Also Bad News
So, Record beats a lot of other software that uses USB keys. That still leaves some problems. For one, if your host (Pro Tools, Cubase) uses a USB key, you’ll need another one plugged in at the same time to use Record at the same time, unless you have an Internet connection. Also, while the eight-computer setup above makes the key an advantage, if you just have a laptop and desktop, it’s probably easier in most cases just to do the software-only authorization (as in Ableton Live, for instance), and stay authorized. Then, when you’re out on the bus or train or hotel room, you don’t have to dig around for your key, and there’s nothing to lose.
In short, you’ll probably like it better than those software schemes if you move a lot between machines. If you have one laptop you carry everywhere, you may like it less.
I think the other factor in the growing dissent is a trend away from these kinds of anti-piracy schemes in general. Music DRM is dead. Computer games, though still widely pirated, have gone to less restrictions after users rebelled and piracy remained unabated. It’s even true in pro media software. Apple’s Logic and Final Cut have loosened their authorization schemes; Logic even lost its dongle. Sure, some will argue that’s to help Apple sell more computers, except having talked to their software teams, I’m fairly sure they like to sell software. Cakewalk has serial-only authorization on their products; do it once, and forget about it. Software like energyXT, once authorized, will run anywhere on a USB key. And Reaper doesn’t even require authorization at all; it’s honor system-based.
Likewise, I’m a bit disappointed that this is yet another USB key that doesn’t do anything – it seems like it’d be an ideal way to tote around presets, though admittedly, that might mean you have to buy it. I’m sure the iLok people could point out that, unlike their key, this can only authorize Record and not other software, though that’s less of an issue with an app that (for better or for worse) doesn’t support plug-ins.
It’s just not a black and white issue, as developers remain nervous about piracy and keeping their businesses open. But if developers want to understand why users are resistant, I think the evidence is there.
My sense is that this won’t be a deal-breaker for everyone, and a lot of people are enthusiastic enough about Record that they’ll live with the key, just as people live with, say, the online authorization in a tool like Ableton Live.
I do think we need more reasoned discussion of these issues, though, instead of defensive developers and frustrated users just venting. It’d also be great to see some solid metrics on how these approaches work.
Okay. I’m publishing this. If you need to vent in comments, fine; I’m staying out of it.
81 Comments
Leave a CommentDavid Koresh
This is just infuriating!
A USB dongle?!?!
How the hell am I supposed to pirate the software now???
May 12, 2009 @ 6:30 am
Jacob Joaquin
I personally hate dongles, and purposely avoid any software that requires them. That said, I do think the iLok seems to be the perfect compromise.
May 12, 2009 @ 6:45 am
Tony
If I were the slight bit interested in record, this would be a major stumble. USB ports dont exactly grow on trees, and it seems like EVERYTHING needs a USB port these days The last thing I need filling up my ports is a bunch of USB dongles. I have a dongle for cubase already and that is one dongle to many. At least that one works to authorize other software as well.
And what happens if the Key is lost/stolen. What is Propelerheads replacement policy (the Steinberg policy is abysmal and why I dont take my key out of my house)?
May 12, 2009 @ 6:56 am
Mr.Grumps
I’m surprised your creating an issue out of this, dongles are not a big deal. The only people who complain about copy protection are non pro casual home users or have way too much time on their hands …
May 12, 2009 @ 6:58 am
Ableton Lives
I will still argue that the Logic Pro Dongle = Mac Pro Tower
May 12, 2009 @ 6:59 am
Peter Kirn
Tony, sorry, I accidentally didn’t make that explicit:
Propellerhead will replace your key for what they describe as a “nominal fee” (ie, it won’t require you to buy another copy or something ridiculous). And in the meantime, you still have everything but open capability, and you can use Internet authorization.
What I wish they would do is some sort of timed Internet authorization. For instance, you could authorize at a hotel room on wifi, then have the thing work for 24 hours so you could head to the gig (which almost certainly won’t have Internet).
@Jacob: iLok itself may work reasonably well, but the problem is the policies of individual vendors on replacement, authorization – I think at least relative to most iLok vendors, Record is an improvement.
May 12, 2009 @ 6:59 am
Peter Kirn
@Ableton Lives: if that’s true, what’s your explanation for Cakewalk (who still sell software-only packages), let alone Reaper (who just, you know, trust you to pay them)!
@Mr. Grumps: I’m not creating the issue personally; just trying to cover the details as I know Propellerhead are already dealing with complaints and some confusion.
May 12, 2009 @ 7:00 am
Jussi Huuskonen
While installing applications for my thesis I stumbled upon an interesting authentication scheme. Products from the Siemens Automation suite use a common USB stick that to the layman appears as a 128MB flash drive but it also has a secondary memory that stores licenses for each of the applications. It’s not a dongle as it’s not required to be present while running but a transfer medium for tranferring software licenses between computers running the Siemens Automation License manager. The License manager itself is a service installed onto each computer that can retrieve and return licenses to and from the USB stick for any of the programs in the Siemens Automation Suite.
The pros are that the user doesn’t need to type lengthy, complex strings to authenticate their software or bother with persistent (as in required to run) dongles, the downside is that losing a single USB stick can result in the loss of thousands of €’s worth of licenses.
May 12, 2009 @ 7:06 am
Jacob Joaquin
@Peter Kirn
I agree and I should have been more specific.
I think how Cycling 74 handles the iLok is the perfect compromise as it allows users to authorize Max without requiring a dongle, but gives them the option to use an iLok if they work on multiple computers.
May 12, 2009 @ 7:19 am
Apoclypse
I’m personally not happy about the USB key. If the software ran from the Key like energyXT then it would seem more useful. You can go to your friends house and load the software, do what you have to do and they don’t have to have a program they can’t use sitting on their machine. Ofcourse they should have the option to install locally as well. I use a MacBook Pro and I only have so many USB ports on my machine which primarily get used for USB interfaces such my Axiom, Kore and Maschine. The MBP only has two ports. I guess since Maschine/Kore won’t run in Record I can alternate between my Axiom and Maschine as a controller. Not ideal but I guess it will work.
I’m still excited about Recored, so myc so that I actually opened Reason again yesterday and started tinkering, something I haven’t done since I moved to Logic. Knowing PH the app is going to sound wonderful, be resource friendly and boot and load files faster than anything else out there.
May 12, 2009 @ 7:19 am
Sebastien Orban
I have only one problem : driver.
I’m on a 64 os, and if I was to have some hardware, I would be a very sad panda since no driver for them exist and will probably never will (people : don’t buy presonus gear, even recent hardware will never got driver for it, meanwhile older one will, and some will not). Will they support Windows XP? Which SP? And Vista? Or MacOS 10.4?
We’re still waiting for a 64bit rewire.
And then, subpar driver.
May 12, 2009 @ 7:26 am
JohnG
Does DRM really accomplish anything? If it’s half decent, it will inevitably be pirated, and then the pirates get software that is even less hassle to use than those who are paying for it. All DRM really does is hurt the paying customer.
If it’s as simple as entering a CD key then perhaps it could be overlooked, but there’s no way I’d pay for something that requires either a dongle or constant internet access to use, even if it looked interesting.
May 12, 2009 @ 7:42 am
favomodo
This whole article illustrates why a dongle is a bad idea. Why is article written in the first place? Because a lot buzzing is going around the internet. And it’s not about how great Record is, but about why-oh-why they used a dongle protection.
I must say i’m pretty anoyed about the naming (Ignition Key) and marketing story (”we did it the right way”), because it is still a dongle and the legal users must have to live with it.
And yes, this *is* a big deal to pro’s, because they have to trust this mechanism while working against deadlines and doing liveshows. The hobbyists can wait if a dongle breaks down.
Sigh… Why can’t developers see that DRM stuff is a dead end for customers.
May 12, 2009 @ 7:49 am
Nosaer
i like new Record…but i dont like that dongle…why???….it is going to be pirated anyway…so what’s the point?..any normal person who think seriously about his music will buy it..
we live in ‘internet age’..software will be pirated more than ever, so for me this kind of protection looks really like a joke….
May 12, 2009 @ 8:00 am
dajebus
@nosaer
Nail on the head.
This is a joke.
May 12, 2009 @ 8:08 am
Peter Kirn
Well, I’m certainly not pro-dongle or pro-copy protection, as you know. I’m still interested in getting some metrics on how these things are doing in the real world. We all have personal and anecdotal experience, but if anyone has a sense of how we could measure it…
Obviously, we know what’s getting pirated (a quick torrent search tells you that), but how are the supposed deterrents performing?
It’s been a big question in the gaming world, too, where tragically the indie game World of Goo just suffered a really nasty fall, apparently due to piracy. And since games == digital creations, that has impact for the future of digital art and tools, too.
May 12, 2009 @ 8:10 am
crumbly gavin
“If you’re onstage and someone breaks your key, for instance, you can continue to use Record you can’t just open any new files.”
Ummm… if you’re in the middle of a set and can’t open the next song, then your set will be over. This is like saying, “You can continue to use Record, you just can’t do anything whatsoever with it.” This is a massive accident waiting to happen!
May 12, 2009 @ 8:15 am
Joe E. Headset
Yes, the software will be cracked. But the idea of these sorts of schemes is to at least create a couple of hurdles to overcome for garden variety computer users. We Hard Corps Internets Users will have no trouble tracking down cracked copies of Record (or anything else, for that matter) for our personal edification. Not all users are as Hard Corps as we. No, you can’t prevent users from pirating the software. But you can try to make it inconvenient, at least. And I’m willing to suffer a little inconvenience myself, as a paid user, if that’s what it takes.
May 12, 2009 @ 8:25 am
booji
Something that’s not explicitly called out anywhere that I’m curious about: Can you leave the dongle in while opening your set in a live situation, and then pull it to avoid the obvious cases of bumping it out, it getting pulled by the audience, etc? Logically based on what I’ve read so far this will work great but perhaps I’m not understanding it.
Also, I assume bouncing would be disabled without auth as well, right?
May 12, 2009 @ 8:42 am
tony
I say I am will never use any DAW beside Ableton Live, I got Suite 8 and I love it plus the people from Ableton let you register you software for two computers, of coarse not running at the same time, but still no dongle, no usb key , no ilok , etc Plus the support team at Ableton is amazing, and now with Suite 8 you could buy extend for live, when that comes out it will blow any DAW out there.
May 12, 2009 @ 8:54 am
Peter Kirn
@booji: Bouncing is allowed. And the short answer to your question is yes. You can pull the dongle out once the set is open. That differentiates this from, as far as I know, everyone’s implementation with iLok.
@crumbly: I don’t think you’d want to *load* a file onstage in the middle of a set, period, but that’s a different question.
May 12, 2009 @ 9:06 am
James
I hate dongles for this reason: I am always afraid of loosing my iLok on my way to work or on my way home (I’ve had a couple of scary experiences – found it under my seat in my car – just imagine if that was on the metro instead)…
And (sadly) I completely understand companies reasoning behind making you buy the software again for a new key / dongle – because the software is easy to copy – the license is basically what you are paying for (and they are usually very upfront about this).
What I don’t see is why, if they did want to go a dongle rout, they really needed to make their own. They could have an iLok dongle AND make it so if you loose your iLok you can get a new license sent to your account for less than full price (of course you have to buy another iLok anyway – but you would need to for all of your other software too) AND could have all the other stuff built in. Its really up to each software company how they use it.
and how is ‘open disabled’ supposed to allow anyone to continue a gig if their dongle breaks or gets disconnected is crazy – unless you make one giant file with everything you need for your entire set….
oh well…thanks for playing, come again.
May 12, 2009 @ 9:07 am
pg13
I just recently purchased an iLok dongle just so i can run a 99 dollar version of autotune. now everywhere i go i need this big clunky key sticking out of my laptop, ready to break off in my laptop’s usb port. So a 40 dollar iLok, just so i can run one plug in? Bullshit!!!
May 12, 2009 @ 9:10 am
Jonathan
Business is between the business and the customers. The customers are, by definition, paying. Users who infringe on copyright law are no where to be found in this money making equation. The fact that a non-paying user may have a better experience than a customer is a terrible outcome. The fact that a business panders to users infringing on copyright law by making the software experience worse for customers is an abomination.
That said, if I were only a desktop user, I wouldn’t mind the dongle. But I’m a laptop user. I wonder how strongly the dongle proponents and opponents could be aligned with desktop and laptop users?
I use Reason daily as a writer uses a word processor. I’m one of those users who was very excited about Record. Half the features and double the price would have been more than thrilling. I couldn’t get my wallet out fast enough… until I read about the dongle. There is no way I’m going to direct the marketplace toward dongles. It’s absolutely positively a deal-breaker.
May 12, 2009 @ 9:24 am
Alastair
I bought Reason 3 and upgraded to 4. I will not buy Record so long as it uses dongles or continuous authorization, and I will not upgrade to Reason 5 either if they implement it there too.
Pirates will *always* find a way to pirate. If you try to tackle piracy by archaic imposition on your real customers you’re an idiot, and you deserve the blowback.
The day Reason ends up with this dongle/activation nonsense will be the day Propellerhead turn a paying customer into a pirate in my case.
Pirates get the best deal: The SW just works, no activation or dongles required. If Propellerhead won’t respect me as a customer I won’t support them as one.
May 12, 2009 @ 9:31 am
Bobbi
@Peter Kirn: regarding alternative authorization; this was brought up at the NYC conference and Ernst ensured there would indeed by a dongle-free authorization over the web. maybe it’s not in the beta yet but the gist of it was that at launch minus the key you can simply enter your Propellerhead account name and password and it will unlock online. if i recall, the software will remain unlocked until you quit.
May 12, 2009 @ 10:34 am
The Man in the Shed
Dongles slow down piracy. In very few cases do they stop it.
If the propellerheads think this makes the program unpiratable, they are either among the best programmers in the field of security in the world, or severely mistaken.
May 12, 2009 @ 10:49 am
Peter Kirn
@Bobbi: According to our most recent conversation, though, you can’t quit *or* open a new file. So that’s a little risky for the situation I’m describing. I don’t think you’d want to play live without the dongle, period.
May 12, 2009 @ 11:11 am
colony nofi
I’ll put it out there first that I really dislike dongles. I use 4 different macs (1 laptop) in my day to day work composing, and always have my heart in my mouth when I need to carry dongles around with me.
BUT.
The *can* completely stop the piracy of a program if implemented well. Seq4/5 from steinberg (both cubase and nuendo) have (contrary to some info on the interwibble) not been successfully cracked. At all.
And on the strength of this, steinberg bought syncrosoft.
(And they are finally developing a policy to help users if they loose the dongle…to date it has meant buying software again. For N4 users, this is a tonne of cash….)
May 12, 2009 @ 12:29 pm
velocipede
Hmm, the dongle still seems better than the Reason authorization scheme that randomly asks me to insert the original software discs. This invariably happens when I am thousands of miles away from those discs.
Nonetheless, even though I do not see a USB Key as a big hinderance for me, I sympathize with those who would be greatly inconvenienced by it.
Perhaps enough noise before 9/9/09 can dissuade them from going through with it.
Maybe the key could be good as an optional tool for those who want to use the software on multiple machines. Maybe it could be made into a useful file storage device as well.
May 12, 2009 @ 12:35 pm
scrag
@Bobbi / Peter Kirn : Actually you’re both kind of right here – essentially the software will either run in demo mode, or authorised.
If it’s in demo mode, then it’s as Peter says – full functionality except for opening files (other than the included demo songs).
Alternatively, you can authorise it to run with full functionality. It can be authorised either with the ignition key, or using internet authorisation. The result is the same – the program runs with full functionality, opening, saving bouncing, recording, quitting et al.
The internet authorisation is a “backup option” for when your ignition key is not available.
May 12, 2009 @ 12:36 pm
l
I was going to buy Record but after hearing about that USB key crap, forget it.
May 12, 2009 @ 12:47 pm
crumbly gavin
-> Peter “I don’t think you’d want to *load* a file onstage in the middle of a set, period, but that’s a different question.”
Well, a live set can consist of playing a song, then loading the next one, then playing that, then loading the next one, etc. Not all live sets are continuous in the style of DJ sets! Also since this product is apparently aimed at guitarists as much as anyone else, this scenario will be very common.
May 12, 2009 @ 2:13 pm
joachime
I will use Record. Perhaps with dongle.
But figure this. I am already using iLok, Syncrosoft and the old XSkey (because of compability issues with older versions of Logic). Ignition will be my fourth USB key!
May 12, 2009 @ 2:29 pm
t
I think the dongle is a great idea. I cannot stand the idea of someone getting the software for free…ultimately it means that the paying customer gets less. Imagine the software we would have if everybody who really wanted it paid for it. We would be on Reason 15 by now.
May 12, 2009 @ 2:31 pm
Honkey McGee
“i’m in the middle of my set and I can’t open up the next song because my dongle broke.”
oh wait, this is a recording program, not necessarily a live performance tool. If you’re RECORDING a live performance, then you don’t need to OPEN another song. You just save the song you just recorded, then record the next song.
May 12, 2009 @ 3:18 pm
Damon
I don’t mind dongles in premise. Were I a software designer, they would seem a pragmatic approach. I guess in the long run dongles keep software prices down, which is good news for the user. My issue is there are just too many of them. One would not want to see a Microsoft type OS dongle monopoly, but when there are almost as many dongle brands (slight exaggeration) as there are software companies that employ them, it gets a bit tedious.
May 12, 2009 @ 5:12 pm
Rex Rhino
But the people who get the software for free don’t need to bother with the dongle. They get to use the software, unlocked, with no restrictions. Dongles, in fact, reward people who pirate the software.
But why would someone pay for it, when the stolen version is better than the paid version? Basically, the only people who will pay for dongle software are professional studios that could get sued… and those guys are using Pro-Tools.
May 12, 2009 @ 6:09 pm
mr. ed
@ Alastair
“… I will not buy Record so long as it uses dongles or continuous authorization, and I will not upgrade to Reason 5 either if they implement it there too.”
I agree, I’ve been a registered Reason user since v2, still use it daily, but rewired. I’ll be very very disappointed if they do this on Reason 5 also. DRM of this kind is dead, I have no problem with online authorization, however it’s a bit silly for it to need it every time you open the app. I’m sure they have wifi everywhere in Sweden these days, but the rest of Europe ain’t like that, not to mention outdoor festivals which many of us play at. Lame.
May 12, 2009 @ 6:41 pm
gwenhwyfaer
If the dongle will come free with Record, and the internet licensing is expected to just be a backup solution, why does the second screenshot talk about “internet-only” licensing? That strongly suggests that Record plans a two-level licensing scheme; the first level buys you the right to run, but only whilst you can talk to their server, and the second level buys you a dongle.
I’m not intending to flame, and I might have misinterpreted, but – that doesn’t look like “licensing the right way” to me. That looks like “pay once for studio use, pay twice to gig with it”, by any other name…
May 12, 2009 @ 7:40 pm
gwenhwyfaer
(Sorry, “online-only” licensing, rather than “internet-only”. But they’re synonymous in this context.)
May 12, 2009 @ 7:41 pm
Bobbi
@Peter Kirn: ahh hear where yr coming from regarding the mobile unlocking. however, does anyone really envision using Record for performing live? i guess maybe for recording a live band at a venue or something? dunno. so many things better suited for that. i definitely am seeing Record as “stationary” tool for controlled environments but then again i’m pretty boring. gotta say so far, really loving the sound of the mixer. and really hating looking at it. it’s impressive at first, but becomes ominous and daunting to have all those unused channels staring at me. wish it would only add them as needed.
May 12, 2009 @ 8:43 pm
Cuckoo
There’s a misconception that dongles will automatically help you sell more licences. Dongles will effectively slow down software to win market share. Especially NEW software that needs to be mass tested and need that buzz before trusted by the masses.
I think any music software designed for spontaneous music making or live music must work without a dongle or Internet access.
And also… What if everyone thought dongles were good? Think of a minimal but maybe typical setup including the following:
- Live, max, junxion
What if they all needed a hardware dongle? I only got two USB ports so it would be problematic. Plus I need to connect a USB midi keyboard and perhaps even a USB audio card.
I think their heads got propelled away… Stop that freaking dongle party already!!
May 12, 2009 @ 9:15 pm
Kyran
Not that it’s any software vendors concern, but using a hardware dongle kills any hope for this working in wine.
May 12, 2009 @ 11:05 pm
nk:e
Another key.
REASON has to be one of the most pirated pieces of software out there, so I can understand this move. I appreciate that the Props have tried to think it through a bit.
I agree with you Peter that a “24hr authorization” (or 72 for those weekends when internet access is problematic) scheme would be great and pretty much address my concerns about traveling with my laptop studio on short trips.
I have several keys for software installed in my tower. I have a small usb hub connected to the interior USB port, plug my keys into that, and close up the case. No fuss, no muss, nothing to break, and only one interior port used that I would not have used anyway so no “port hit” either. I don’t need to move ‘em as I don’t perform and my mobile set up is much simpler anyway (on purpose), so keys have not been that big of a hairy deal yet.
May 13, 2009 @ 2:18 am
painfulleginjuries
I don’t get why they wouldn’t just make it a miniature interface. Like the tiny Mbox.
Also, why can’t a dongle also be a thumb-drive? They would have much better argument for using this thing if you could put some files on it.
To me, a Mac user, having to give up any USB ports (all two of them) is irritating. As nice as it looks, I’ll be sticking with Live for the time being.
May 13, 2009 @ 2:30 am
totmtom
pro-tools comes with the same ilok key,
but, wait…some hackers/crackers just eliminated the need for it!
let´s make some music!
without locks!
fuck this dongles away!
May 13, 2009 @ 3:42 am
Peter Kirn
@gwenhwyfaer: I think you’re just misinterpreting the screenshot, sorry (I had intended that to make it clearer, not less clear)!
If you don’t have your dongle, and you click the “Internet” option, it just uses your Propellerhead login to confirm you own the software. You only have to register once for this to work, and once you’ve done that once, it’s transparent once you hit that button.
I guess the big question here is whether Reason gets the same scheme, because, indeed, you’re more likely to gig with Reason than Record. Record you might use for backing tracks or live mixing, however.
May 13, 2009 @ 4:02 am
essex sound lab
@Peter Kirn:
By “transparent”, do you mean that Record no longer needs to go out to the ‘Net to validate the product when it launches? Or “transparent” in the sense that it validates across the ‘Net silently? If the latter, this is of no help if you don’t have an Internet connection available each time you launch the product.
This is just a dongle with a slightly different scheme. I don’t see it as a real improvement for many people.
One of two strikes, without which it appears that many more people would be attracted to the product. But Propellerhead’s “concept” gets in the way…with no real benefit. Smacks me as arrogance, not cleverness.
May 13, 2009 @ 5:26 am
Peter Kirn
I mean you don’t have to login again once you’ve done it once. You do need an Internet connection for opening and loading. I can see it working at my desk where I do have an always-on Internet connection and don’t want to plug in the dongle, and that’s probably what I’ll do. But I can also do that with NI, Ableton, FL, SONAR, etc. which are already registered, so no, not really an *advantage* for me to add this hardware, personally.
May 13, 2009 @ 5:30 am
Genjutsushi
Ive got to agree about the ‘timed approval’ method. When im performing with my laptop, the last thing i want is my software to rely upon a USB dongle to function- they are easily stolen, damaged, lost etc etc etc!
May 13, 2009 @ 5:33 am
bliss
Amusing. As if a dongle is the most important feature of a piece of software — which it isn’t.
May 13, 2009 @ 6:15 am
SJ
Being that none of the machines i work on are, or ever will be, connected to the internet… Being left high and dry if the dongle is lost or broken is a deal breaker for me. And i’ve been a reason user since v2. Not a good look treating your paying customers and supporters like this propellerheads, not a good look at all.
May 13, 2009 @ 7:40 am
Max
I would love to see those dongles in the size of those logitech mouse mini receivers, so that you could keep it inside, without worrying about diconnecting it. . . .
May 13, 2009 @ 8:29 am
Tuna Boy
Dongles are stupid. This app will be pirated before PHeads can even get it out the door. PHeads could have saved them and US a ton of money had they just had a simple serial number authorization. I can’t believe they are are still under the delusional impression that they can thwart piracy. Hilarious.
May 13, 2009 @ 4:45 pm
gwenhwyfaer
Hmm. Still, the internet-as-dongle idea has definite possibilities:
echo 127.0.0.1 affirm.propellerheads.se >> %SYSTEM32%/drivers/etc/hostsnet start record-affirmer
(Sorry if my syntax is rusty; I haven’t done Windows admin for a living for 7 years. But you see where I’m going with this…?)
May 13, 2009 @ 6:04 pm
dan
@tuna boy et al
as has been mentioned above – a lot of the syncrosoft dongle stuff hasn’t yet been successfully cracked, and as far as i know ilok protection cracking hasn’t gotten out into the mainstream (if it’s been done at all). so some dongles do work very well.
@gwenhwyfaer
i’d be pretty certain an approach that is that simple wouldn’t work with whatever method they’re using. systems like HTTPS or ATM cash machines use all sorts of weird time-based encryption to make sure that the data can’t be traced or tampered with, even if you’re listening to the data going both ways. they’re designed so that if you did manage to decrypt them, the decrypted data will be out of date and invalid.
anyway, there are loads of ways to weave security code into the rest of your codebase so that you can’t disable the protection without breaking the rest of the program. e.g. you could have some shared code in your protection system and, say, your eq, or your FFT code, so if you disabled the protection the eq code would crash. things like that mean a cracker would have to build replacement code from scratch and it starts turning into a big job.
while i find dongles a bit of a pain, i can’t help but suspect a lot of the shrieking is from people who have cracked copies of reason and are worried they won’t be able to get record for free.
(i’m a registered reaper user myself, does everything i want very well)
May 13, 2009 @ 9:03 pm
Kyran
Cracking an app typically isn’t done by “disabling the protection code”, it’s done by making the app believe it is authorised.
Synchrosoft cracks install a fake dongle driver on your system for example.
My guess is that if Record gets cracked, it will be done by emulating the authorisation server (that’s probably easier than writing a hardware driver).
I’m no fan of dongles personally, but I do agree with Peter that Propellerheads have done a nice job in finding a system that is reasonably fair and doesn’t get in your way too much if it fails.
I can definitely see this working for my younger brothers band (they’re all students, so they don’t have that much money to spend). They’d buy something like this with the band, install a copy on all their pc’s so they can record idea’s and stuff at their leisure and then edit it all in one track on the authorised pc in the weekend when they rehearse.
May 14, 2009 @ 12:21 am
hollsa
as an employee of a software developer that uses hardlock protection, and a musician who buys the licenses i use, i understand propellerhead’s entry into the hardlock arena. hopefully this will be a temporary stop-gap solution until better alternatives can be had. personally, i don’t have an issue finding a spare usb port. i also don’t make a living gigging and recording, but if i did, i doubt i’d rely on any program, whether protected or not, without backups-for-the-backups in place. if props finds it’s not a good business model for them to use hardlocks, no doubt they’ll come up with another alternative. the bottom line is their bottom line, at the end of the day.
May 14, 2009 @ 4:42 am
descathach
To those who say why anyone would use Record live, I have two words. Multicore support. All the Reason synths will be there if you are a registered Reason owner, with MULTICORE SUPPORT! Think about Thor’s being able to use more than one core.
May 14, 2009 @ 10:58 am
A Real Engineer
You talentless idiots.
Record offers the best tools to create music with a damn SSL 9000k as the mixer and all you wack musicians care about is a damn dongle?
It’s simple, you don’t like the dongle because you want to teal the software. Get off the shtick. No one here has enough musical talent to demand taking up every USB port on a computer so just stop it.
Propellerheads deserve the money they are charging for Record, so pay the money, plug in your dongle, and try to make some good music instead of making excuses.
May 15, 2009 @ 8:59 am
Lars
This is a bad idea because hackers will always find a way around the dongle and crack the program, leaving only a bad taste for those of us who want to support the software makers and buy the program. That has already happened to Cubase and that will inevitably happen to Record.
Those who like to steal the program will get an even better version of the program: one that doesn’t require the dongle. A dongle doesn’t solve anything. It only makes users angry.
May 15, 2009 @ 10:25 am
Peter Kirn
@A Real Engineer:
Musical talent is inversely proportional to the number of available USB ports?
I have to hand it to you. That’s an argument I haven’t heard before, at least. What would that mean about the new MacBooks with one or two USB ports? Does it mean you are less talented, since there are less ports, or *more* talented — i.e., the talent to take up the ports is already built in? ;)
May 15, 2009 @ 11:43 am
dan
@Kyran
“Cracking an app typically isn’t done by “disabling the protection code”, it’s done by making the app believe it is authorised.”
actually, i reckon they’ve probably taken a totally different approach with this one. by the looks of things, the project files are encrypted. the key/online service probably is only used for decrypting the project file. (this could be easily done with an asymmetric encryption scheme). that way, you don’t just have to crack the application, you have to work out their keys, which might be impossible. the only possible crack would be to remove the encryption/decryption code from the application and that would be non-trivial.
anyway, that’s what it looks like to me.
May 17, 2009 @ 3:12 pm
dust4ngel
i’ll buy record when a cracked version comes out that doesn’t require the dongle. i’m down to support the vendor but not to put up with any bullshit.
May 19, 2009 @ 7:36 am
James Husted
I guess I’m one of the minority. I prefer dongles. I have had too many hard drives crash or get errors corrupting programs that a dongle works better for me. Just re-install and go. No calling up tech support and getting a new auth code cause you used up the quota. No need to convince them you just got a bigger hard drive and thats all. The perfect world for the user is no codes at all – I doubt that will ever happen except by hacked programs. I personally have never had a hacked program that worked perfectly either. I have a very cheap usb hub in a locked box screwed under my desk with all my dongles plugged into it. For live uses the best solution would be a run-time version that would play only. Fast and efficient and could install from a cd backup – as many copies as needed.
June 17, 2009 @ 8:08 pm
KFoooooo
What bllody hell I think it’s very fucking upset, yes, to pay and have propellerheads key authorization it’s ok. but to pay for reocvering our linces we paid already it’s the shits from those companys.
but we are going to to crakc for mack and windows, we are all sure, this war.
I had Pro tools for mac, and I lots a furtune on prlugins due to tranfer and they were ripping me my money and I had to buy beetre a Pt due to the pring was the best to buy a new one, but do not worry I am working in
O-bjetive and cocoa, and all those langues for programing in MAc, and soon the crakc for I lok and this new stuff to come soon will be null to ours crakcs.
July 9, 2009 @ 11:46 pm
drno
The real question is why would Propellerhead invest more time and money in something that they know will be cracked within a week or two of release. None of these protection schemes ever work. Seems they should have put that time and money into making Reason 5 multi core friendly. Now that’s progress!
July 20, 2009 @ 2:08 pm
Propellerhead's Record - My Humble Opinion | SoundBlog.org
[...] Mojave-Experiment-style viral video campaign) and the admittedly mild controversies regarding the dongle and the lack of third-party plugin support. Finally, you can hear the experience of users, and I [...]
July 22, 2009 @ 7:38 am
Create Digital Music » Record Beta: We’ve Got Invites, Thoughts from a Superfan
[...] their feature list. Users were divided over the Ignition Key and online authorization scheme (see full explanation), of [...]
July 27, 2009 @ 4:51 am
Gollum
Wait my precious – I own the key I own USB stick.
But hold on – I have Steinberg Key. USB Soundcard. USB Mouse. USB keyboard. USB Midi interface. USB Anne Summer pregnator. USB Webcam. USB Printer.
USB Sticks, Widgets, Gadgets & Gromits coming out of my … ears!!!
Why so much more USB
Unparralled Serial Bollox
My studio is slowly becoming a USB Junkie yard. I need to inject to use this, that and the other….I can not survive without it. Dont dangle that dongle I need a USB hit and it promises me unknown fortune and wealth, happiness, success and world domination…or does it.
Come on if a product is seriously used it will be paid for and is worth it, isn’t it?! Those who dont pay for it would they buy it?
Now we are told to Ignite our PCs to use ‘our’ product it is like a car….Yep I am going green … boycott the dongle it is polluting our planet…it’s creating unnecessary responsiblility. I can store a serial number in my confidential email, diary or in a safe….
One thing that was cool about propellarheads was no USB…cracks lead to long and fortified demos…eventually people buy the product cause it’s so damn good.
Shame dam shame –
Ban the Nuke…Nuke the Dongles…
July 28, 2009 @ 11:58 am
Mike Dubs
As an optimist I try to see best in these situations and reading the bit on world of goo was pretty darn alarming and interesting. (Read here: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/11/acrying-shame-world-of-goo-piracy-rate-near-90.ars)
July 30, 2009 @ 8:54 am
Mike Dubs
on the other hand.. as a consumer and someone who thinks hard about where the next few hundred bucks will go I don’t like the idea of giving up a USB port. On the average iMac you have three on the back of the computer and most USB devices don’t play well with usb hubs.. so that doesn’t give you many options. I currently have 2 midi controllers and a keyboard plugged into mine..
July 30, 2009 @ 8:57 am
peter
re noise is 40 quid if i was getting into music production the guy will be implementing a piano roll soon and other very interesting features anyway its a god application up there with able ton reason was good once they have just fallen behind dsp wise i look forward to seeing reason 5 if they haven’t pulled there socks up dsp wise i wont be buying. seems lk a big rip off to me for what they give you coupled with the wait forever application updates
August 2, 2009 @ 5:53 am
Gary
I’ve used reason and rebirth for many years as a paying customer and I am very excited about Record… very excited indeed.
Unfortunately, I will NOT support the use of DRM, Dongles and software which can screw me over when I’ve booked expensive room time or am on the road with no reliable internet connection.
If reason5 is DRM’d I *will* pirate for the first time in my life. I shall almost certainly be pirating ‘Record’ and I don’t feel guilty.
Propellerheads are obviously making enough money to pull off some impressive R&D and coding *despite* widespread piracy… all this is doing is squeezing the last drops from the market at the expense of the legitimate end user, not the pirates.
And this *will* be broken, as *every* DRM so far appears to have been.
Seriously, I’m increasingly seeing the pirates P.O.V. Propellerheads are on the verge of losing my custom completely in the next release of reason I fear.
Shame that, but paying for this would be like being arrested and expected to pay for the use of the handcuffs.
I’m a propellerheads fan because they make my work EASIER… if they start hampering me they lose.
Ignition key my ar5e!
Gary
August 10, 2009 @ 5:45 pm
Andy
@Gary I fully support that sentiment.
I am a pirate, and will continue to be a pirate as a result of this.
As a 16 year old kid living on £45 a week in a flat but attending a music production college I think I was one of the few people out there that was qualified to say he had no choice but to pirate, and although in the near future when I have acquired the right to get a job, (my country’s equivalent of a green card still hasn’t arrived for me yet), I was going to start by buying Reason and the other apps I use.
If Propellerhead decide to go ignition key for everything, I, and everyone else who doesn’t want DRM on thier PCs (Starforce games anyone?) will download the pirated version that doesn’t require the key or an internet connection.
August 23, 2009 @ 1:44 pm
007
well they have come a long way from rebirth mods now they have dongle keys well done propeller head you have now lost any respect i had for your souls , you can all burn in hell as far as im concerned you fucking wasted the digital rack concept i think they added an arpegiator in version 4 :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO thats fucking horrendous i had one in the 80s Jesus Christ someone tell these fuck heads straight WE ARE NOT STUPID WE ARE NOT GOING TO PAY FOR CHILDISH DUPLO TYPE CRAP YOU GREEDY POUND SIGN EYED FUCK HEADS.
September 10, 2009 @ 5:45 pm
Triniti
One thing that no one is accualy speaking of is that if you use the internet method this means that the internet needs to be present for launching the Software but how many places have internet allways avaible at all time and for free?
Now one option is via Bluetooth from the Iphone provided that AT&T get the darn thethering option working. you can then tehther your laptop to the iphones 3g or edge connection and then supply the net feed needed for accesing the software. This is the best solution being that you dont need to use up a usb port and this way its ur own internet and you take it with you and control the usage.
If you dont want to use up alot of MB from tethering ( AT&T has a 5 GB limit ) you can just enable tethering to launch record and then close it when record is launched. If you need to re load Record just reenable tethering.
But being that the pc is not downloading anything its just connected you can leave tethering connected but dont download anything
have no browswers open and have all blockers and firewalls enabled to block the possibilty of spam and the possibility of getting hit with a MB load.
Its as if Propeller head assumes that the internet is in all places and is free.
they also assume that everyone that uses Records will be mostly Desktop users but in the videos they show a laptop user!
Did they not look into the fact that CUBSE NUENDO PRO TOOLS USE USB DONGLES AND MOST LAPTOPS ONLY HAVE 3 USB PORTS.
Now we can get a HUB but most dongles dont want to be plugged into the hub.
The best Copy protection is to use a Dongle that does not need to be plugged in for the sofrware to load rather to transfer the license to a license manager that knows all the licenses loaded from the Dongle and loads the software with out the dongle but the manager becomes the “dongle”
and the manager uses the dongle for its list of Authorised applications
and this type of dongle would not be so darn fat in the booty but sleek and not long.
75% less the size of a USB memory stick
so that when its pressed in its very close to the surface of the laptop so the pertrusion is minimal.
As for me this whole Dongle issue is a deal killer for me as I am based on a laptop.
So I will wait for a new version of record that does not have this limitation
October 15, 2009 @ 7:31 am
Triniti
In addition to my post…the dongle would only need to be plugged in to transfer licenses to the manager then can be up plugged and no longer needed untill new software is purchased!
Its like Ilok with out having to have the ilok plugged in at all times.
As for me because there is no such Protection method i will use the iphone for my internet.
So i can buy record as soon as ATT makes tethering ready ( and no u cant tether yet using 3.1 of the iphone ) Unless Im missing something
October 15, 2009 @ 7:38 am
Jo Kerr
Oh dear. I got all excited about Record, and lo and behold they f*ck it up by adding a dongle. From years of Cubase hell I know that dongles are a pain.
So what happens if your about to play a gig and your lose your dongle? Cancel that gig.
Or playing at a gig and some drunk bumps your lappy and snaps your dongle? Apologise and go home.
October 29, 2009 @ 3:22 pm
Happy Bunny
A lot of fuss about nothing, my ignition key is in a spare port on my second monitor and I don’t give it a second thought. But maybe that’s because I bought the software, and am not scouring the internet for a crack for a copy downloaded from Rapidshare or similar.
Oh and I bought the software because it is well thought out, excellently designed and brilliantly implemented. Oh and pretty damn cheap compared to other audio software.
October 31, 2009 @ 6:59 pm
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