Record Interface

What do you really want from a recording tool on a computer? The Digital Audio Workstation answer to that question has for years been on giving you a generalized set of tools that try to anticipate every possible need. The “workstation” approach puts a whole bunch of functionality in one place, in particular adding features like plug-in hosting for supporting third-party effects and instruments, video editing and scoring, and music notation.

Record is a different animal: it’s a specialized tool focused on making music with audio, instead of a generalized tool. Reason has focused on synths, with a distinctive set of hardware-styled modules in a virtual rack. Record focuses on sound, with a distinctive set of hardware-styled modules in a virtual rack. Get it?

What’s left out is important. There’s no plug-in support, but by limiting use to the internal sound modules, Record is entirely agnostic about things like sample rate and can be far more flexible with modular audio routing and fluid tempo changes. (There’s also no MIDI out support, but if you’re looking to sequence external hardware, I might look elsewhere, anyway – especially with gems like Numerology out there.) Record also supports ReWire and has various export features, so the assumption is that – as with Reason – when you really want plug-ins, you can use your existing environment of choice.

Maybe you can call the results a DAW, if you really want to. But the one thing that isn’t debatable: Record is Reason for sound.

CDM was first with the official story from Propellerhead over the weekend, talking about the philosophy behind Record. Now we can talk about the specifics inside – and I have a test version here I’ve been working with while on the road.

Basically, Record combines comp-based recording with Reason-style racks and a whole load of goodies for processing and mixing your sound, including Line 6 guitar effects and an emulated SSL mixing desk. Why am I excited to begin working with it? Basically, it’s what happens when you flip the Record interface around. The most important screenshot (see any of these shots bigger by clicking on them):

Record Rack Backside

Here’s what you get:

  • All about “Record”ing – with comps: As the name implies, the real soul of Record is recording. Comping is built in from the beginning so that you get a take you want, and each track even includes an integrated tuner by default. This is really a tool that assumes you’re actually one person plugging in an instrument and playing.
  • Music and tempo-based sound: “Tempo-independent” audio is almost the reverse of what this is. When you record sound, the idea is that you always have some musical information in mind – beats and bars. Record lets you then change the tempo of that audio fluidly, without ever having to think about warping or slicing or markers or loops or anything like that. Propellerhead says they’re especially proud of the audio quality of the stretching algorithm working behind the scenes to make these changes sound good, which is what we’re already hearing (unofficially, of course) from beta testers in comments and elsewhere.
  • Tempo changes: Unlike other tools that have focused on DJ-style or electronica-style master tempo, Record assumes fluid changes in tempo from version 1.0. There’s always a “conductor” track, a main tempo lane, which can have subtle, curved tempo changes (accel./rit.). When you export your audio, that information is exported as MIDI, so this musical information travels with you to other tools.
  • An integrated recording/mixing/arrangement environment: This is the one DAW-like part of Record, though it still feels more like Reason than anything else. Each track gets three things: a channel routed into the mixer, an individual device module you can insert into the rack (as in Reason), and a sequencing lane for MIDI and audio.
  • Sequencing: This is the most traditional part of Record – you do get conventional sequencer lanes. Clips can arbitrarily contain audio, MIDI, and automation data. The important thing to note is that, because Record doesn’t support plug-ins, you can count on consistent integration of automation – if there’s a knob in a module, you can automate it in the sequencer, just as in Reason.
  • Hardware-style mixing: No software-style mixer here: the mixer inside Record is a direct simulation of hardware, not a loosely-inspired emulation. The Record mixer is modeled after an SSL 9000k analog mixing desk, so that it intends to look, work, and sound like the real thing. (SSL was not officially involved, so you’ll just have to count the Propellerheads as SSL fans.)
  • Reason-style effects: In addition to the mixer, you get Reason-style modules for EQ, dynamics, and other effects.
  • Line 6 guitar effects: Line 6’s virtual POD is built in, so you get their guitar amps and cabinets built in. I’m guessing those should be quite nice with keyboards, too.

Record Sequencer

Arrangement: Looking at the birds-eye view, Record does admittedly look like a DAW. But dig in a little bit to how these modules work, and there’s more Reason DNA than anything else. It’ll be interesting to work with these modules over the coming months. Also, most important to recognize is that when you see audio in Record, it will always obey tempo changes you make, including gradual speed increases and decreases – no warping or slicing required. When you do want to slice up audio, you could, say, drop Record as a ReWire client into an Ableton Live set, or even export your audio with tempo changes from Record as one track and put your sliced audio in a different rack.

RecordMixingConsole

The mixing desk:

The thing is, it’s not so much what Record does as what it does in a Reason-style way. So while this is a preview, not a review, here’s what makes Record more like Reason:

reasonmodulemenu

For Reason users, this one image pretty much sums everything up. The workflow is still essentially a Reason workflow – if you love that, you’re likely already salivating. If not, it’ll likely take more convincing from the other aspects of the tool.

  • Every track is a rack: Each time you create a track, you get a modular rack, which translates to the inserts you see in the mixer. For advanced users, this means you can do anything with routing you want. You get a full-blown rack on each track, with all the usual goodies for routing. For beginners, it means you can call up easy presets for whatever you’re doing, and the parameters show up as plain-English knobs in the mixer. You don’t have to think about routing or what everything represents; you just focus on sound. For beginners and advanced users, the ability to “see” all of this routing with virtual cables and such means sophisticated mixing and routing setups aren’t quite so abstract.
  • It’s a Reason interface: Everything looks and feels like Reason, even with a much more involved UI. All the new views continue on the theme of adjustable navigation panes. These views either get combined into a single-window interface, or can be detached if you’d prefer. But there are almost no dialog boxes, with one notable exception:
  • You get Reason patches and patch browsing, for audio: Reason users will feel right at home, as Record extends the patch browsing metaphor from Reason. And because track effects inserts use what are essentially Combinators, those inserts just feel like Reason devices inside a mixer.
  • Reason + Record: If you have Reason, you have access to all your Reason modules. And since Record has a big Reason rack – well, you get the idea. Instead of recording inside Reason, what Reason users get is Reason inside a bigger version of Reason that understands not only recording, but mixing and audio arrangement, and treats audio like music, with tempo.
  • ReWire: Record is a ReWire client (slave), not a host (master). That should be your first clue Propellerhead aren’t trying to replace Pro Tools, Live, and Logic. But it does mean you could easily use, say, Record for recording purposes on your own, then drop it into a Pro Tools session in the studio, or Record to do some song-writing that you then bring into an Ableton live PA or remix set.
  • Reason-style automation and control. Most notably, this is the first audio production tool I’ve seen that was set up from the beginning to be used with keyboards, as Reason was. It’s funny: right now, M-Audio are pitching using a keyboard to control Pro Tools with their Axiom Pro / HyperControl product. This essentially goes the other way: like Reason, Record uses the “Remote” protocol, which was effectively the first to “automap” your keyboard controller and control surface to the software. That means you can comfortably produce an entire work from your keyboard, while adding guitar or vocals as an audio recording.
  • Oh yeah, it’ll be fun even if you only use synths: In case you haven’t guessed already, for Reason users, this means mixing and processing and arrangement tools that weren’t available before, so even if you never hook up a mic to Record, I imagine you could use almost all of these tools. (Only the tuner and audio comps become redundant.)

rack

It’s really the relationship of the device rack to the mixer and tracks in Record that make it unique, and will be fun to explore over the coming months. When you create devices and Combinators, you can easily see them in the mixer and track sections. Sends are named as the actual sound parameter, too. Because it doesn’t support plug-ins, that also means you never have to worry about the way parameter names are handled in formats like VST, though you can always return to your favorite host when you do want plug-ins since Record is also a ReWire client.

line6

Line6 guitar and bass amps are available out of the box as insertable modules. This is all you need for the interface: it’s aggressively simple.

patchwindow

The patch window will look familiar to Reason users. But if you’re new to this, what it means is that you can easily surf through, say, Line 6 guitar presets and hear immediately what they sound like.

So, what does the music sound like? Josh Mobley via Twitter tells us about his official demo song, “Push Me Down,” made in Record for Propellerhead. All the songs in the embedded player below were made in Record, with the exception of “Narrow Escape,” the demo for Reason 4.


Josh%20Mobley
Quantcast

About that Dongle

The other bit of news – and the one item that’s likely to be most divisive – is that Propellerhead is changing the authorization scheme in Record, as explained here:

Ignition Key

The good news: “demo” mode / non-authorized mode is actually only “open”-disabled. You can even save files in the demo; you just can’t open existing files. The Ignition Key comes free with the tool rather than being a separate purchase as with some iLok products, and if you lose or break it, a replacement is available for a nominal fee. (Some manufacturers actually have the gall to charge for the full purchase price of the product or close to it, which is utterly ridiculous.) Also, if you don’t want to use the key, there is an Internet authorization.

The bad news: it is still a dongle. Internet authorization requires a consistent connection while you’re working; the moment that’s dropped, the software reverts to demo mode. I would personally much rather have seen one-time Internet authorization as is available from Ableton and Native Instruments, among others, especially as Record would be fun to use on a bus or train without plugging in a dongle. Propellerhead say they’ve put some thought into this and wanted to do copy protection right, but I expect they’ll hear about it anyway.

The one upside I do see is for people who use a lot of machines (like myself, for one). You can use just the dongle without any other authorization, and you can use it on as many machines as you want. So that means you can move from a studio to a Mac laptop to a PC laptop to a netbook just by moving your dongle around, and never have to fill out a registration form or worry about if you’ve run out of authorizations.

Also, I’d suggest that people use this as an opportunity to freely try the demo without any annoying limitations and decide if you like the tool before you buy it.

Availability / pricing

Beta testing is starting now, today – sign-up at the site below.

September 9, 2009 is the official release date.

Suggested retail: US$299, EUR299. No word yet on what bundles will be available for existing or new Reason users, but Propellerhead says that it will have special bundle pricing of some kind.

Videos and more info at:

www.record-you.com

It’s been a long, long wait for side-by-side Reason and audio racks and recording in Reason, but there’s no question that this is a big announcement.

Since many of you will be beta-testing this alongside me, I look forward to hearing your opinions of the tool and any tips or techniques you discover.

  • http://spark.commandlineninja.ca spark

    Cutting through the hype,

    The vocal comp tool looks pretty handy. But I think that you could misuse it to do a lot of things.

    I get where propellerheads is coming from, but it's DAW. Call a spade a spade.

    I have tried many recorders and daws, from Cubase and Protools, to hardware ones like Radar.. and to be maximally creative you need a "setup", you need to know where your record key is, and you need to know the key commands for setting loop in and out points.

    Use the same set of plugins, have them pre-loaded.

    Other than the new time-stretch and other sonic upgrades, all this seems to offer is a workflow.

  • brett weldele

    I guess I'm a little disappointed at this. I was imagining a Reason equivalent to audio processing, in that, the audio processing itself was all modular and effectible in real time (or in a buffer) with new rack devices to abuse. Sort of like, if you had Kontakt for realtime audio processing. You could use modulators to do crazy audio effects to incoming audio. I would have a blast if Dr Rex accepted audio buffers or something like that.

    I don't see that here. Don't get me wrong, it looks nice, but my imagination gets away from me.

  • TM

    agree!!!!

  • ot

    I think the greatness of Propellerheads products is the way they limit their software. Like for instance Logic, that is supposed to do everything at once, you get lost in all the possibilities and never get around to figure out what tools are ACTUALLY usefull for your purpose, and you dont get to much music made. Whilest in Reason and now Record, it is what it is, you open your program and thats what your working with. And really, this does not decrease your possibilities for creativity, but it gets your creativity in action, when things are more focused and not as.. diffuse as I feel alot of other DAW solutions tend to be. Focus is good for working creative i think.

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    Well, I think Record is probably a DAW to the extent that, say, Ableton Live is a DAW. As in Live, though, there are some important fundamental differences in approach to the conventional DAW. Anyway, I never liked the *term* DAW, so I know that's probably of that.

    @Brett: I'm not sure I understand what you mean. You can absolutely route audio into Reason modules. So, I think it'd be possible to ignore the sequencing stuff and just use this as a big, live mixer. In fact, so far it seems pretty lightweight processing-wise, so it could be ideal. (I'm interested in that, too, so I'll try it.) ;)

    @spark: Misuse, always interesting. Yeah, I agree, it's not all fundamentally new stuff — just a new set of workflows. (Though what's wrong with that?) Like I said, it is what it is, and it seems to be Reason for audio. So I don't mean to hype it up personally – I want to reserve judgment until we've lived with it for a while and we get to a final release. But I always thought Reason's design had some pretty ingenious aspects to it, and having it applied to audio arrangement, recording, mixing and processing routings to me is pretty big news.

    It shouldn't be for everyone. I've always felt if a software design was done right, if there were real design decisions and tradeoffs, it should actually turn some people off. I don't think you can make some people really love something without some other people hating it. One-size-fits all usually means it doesn't really fit anyone.

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    Just to be clear… I promise now to report back on using this as a live performance tool and not just a sequencer. ;)

  • http://geradorzero.com Fabio FZero

    I really never liked Reason's interface that much. Tiny rendered knobs and buttons really don't work well on screen, and Propellerheads drives this non-metaphor home hurting the overall usability.

    That said, Reason is great as a sound module when rewired into something with better interface(*cough*live*cough*), but Record seems to be quite lost in the middle here. It looks like an overhyped attempt at a paradigm shift that really isn't!

    It's a DAW – yep, it's a DAW, no question about it – without plugins and totally unextensible unless you have *another* DAW to run it inside.

    I don't see the point, sorry.

  • Tony

    Wow…for $50 this would be an awesome addition to reason. Whats that? Its $250? No external plugins or MIDI support?

    Lets move along people..

  • brett weldele

    I'll try to be more clear. It looks like the audio can be effected via insert effects from Reason, but i'm talking about the audio itself. like plugging LFO's or envelope's into audio stuff like pitch/stretch/volume/pan/slice shuffle. all the nutty stuff you can do with buffer plugins. Something like Guitar Rig that goes a bit more Max.

    My imagination was coming up with rack devices that had these things integrated within.

  • http://www.studio13.ca Mr.Grumps

    Lame .. if they gave "Record" to me free along with a paid upgrade to Reason 5.0 or something maybe I would check it out. Otherwise this is just adding more noise to the DAW market.

    I feel they missed the mark with this design. What is missing from the DAW / music software market is a very very simple performance recording and overdubbing tool. Record is far from simple. To bad electrix repeater mk2 never made it past vaporware.

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    @Tony: There is most definitely MIDI support. Not sure what you're talking about.

    @Fabio: Well, look, I think the thing is, if you didn't like Reason before, you won't like it now.

    I don't mean to "hype a paradigm shift," here, just to understand that it's a different organism. People who looked at Live 1.0 as a DAW didn't get it, either, you know? Now, for those who like its working method, it makes sense. To people who don't, they may still say, "yeah, but this isn't like DAW xxx"

    There are two groups of people this is for:

    1. People wanting to focus on recording – for them, it's a pretty intelligent bundle of effects and mixing, promises to sound pretty great, and allows them to work with bars and beats and tempo changes without all the mucking about with warping (not only in Live, but other DAWs that have added those features).

    2. If you're a Reason power user (or lapsed Reason power user), this lets you apply those skills to a bunch of new effects and your entire mixing / arrangement environment.

    Like I said, if something pleases everyone, something's horribly wrong.

  • http://www.musicfortheblind.co.uk/ Nivi

    They've been pretty quiet about this – the "ignition key".

    And they had always been so trusting.

    This makes me sad.

  • vinayk

    @Tony

    Only $150 if you have reason.

    @Peter – are there any audio editing features? or is it simply a record and comp thing? Can you slice and dice the audio inside record? (i assume no as thats what recycle does), it doesnt look like the have some type of "sampler" device?

  • http://spark.commandlineninja.ca spark

    @Peter: Yes, I agree workflow is good. It looks to be aimed at the never-used-a-DAW-before crowd.

    It looks interesting. I am a little intrigued.

  • nylarch

    I feel like the true market for this product is as a much better version of PT LE or Garageband. I have guitar player friends that want to make music on the computer and I can stop telling them to get an MBox and tell them to get this instead. But for electronic production I was certainly hoping to be able to drag in audio and do evil things like integrated Recycling and some new tools from there….I think Live is still the tool of choice for audio destruction alongside Reason….

  • http://nwrecords.com gbsr

    well. i was called a tool in the last record blog post but im still not impressed.

    the time stretching did sounds good though, id have to admit that. for convenience, this is propably better then using something like, i dont know, reaper rewired to reason perhaps, but im still not impressed. but hey, im guessing ill give it a good test run and see how it sounds and how the workflow is cause thats the important part. fancy racks and fancy rendered knobs is just that: candy.

  • Honkey McGee

    @Peter: something that's getting a lot of sh1t talking going on in the Reason User's forum is that this release is announcing the implementation of a DONGLE:
    http://www.propellerheads.se/product…e=ignition…

    though, demo mode allows the saving of work without time limitations, and internet authorization is possible, people feel like they're being "treated like criminals."

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    @gbsr: It's totally okay not to like this, whatever people want to say. ;) I will defend one thing about the rack, though, which is that – eye candy aside – what Reason has always done well is to fit user expectations about what they can do with virtual gear, and how it's routed together. And I just have to respect that, partly because some beginners do take well to it, and mostly because there are always some Reason routing ninjas who do interesting things with it. So only *some* of that is eye candy.

    @vinayk: Good question. No, there's no sampler-style tool that I can see. On the other hand, I assume the expectation is that you would use Reason's NN-XT (or NN-19).

    There's not an audio editor. What you can do with the Razor tool and automation is basically it.

    But I think the important thing is to remember that you can insert Reason modules arbitrarily anywhere in this interface. So if you like the Reason way of doing things, stuff like the RPG-8 arpeggiator and, heck, even Redrum just got a lot more interesting.

    If you don't like the Reason way of doing things, then you really won't like Record, I'm guessing, but that's why choice is good.

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    Yes, sorry — I've just updated the post with dongle information.

    I think the one thing that is different is that a surprising number of vendors make you authorize the product even if you DO use the dongle. Here, at least, the dongle really is a key – NO authorization, you just plug the thing in and can use the same license on 15 computers if you want.

    In other words, if you only work on one laptop, the dongle is probably annoying and you'd rather be able to just authorize it online once. If you work on multiple computers, it could actually be better news, if you've ever been annoyed in the past when you run out of authorizations.

  • http://www.musicfortheblind.co.uk/ Nivi

    @Peter

    …or, they could have just left it how Reason was. It's not like this will actually do a thing to stop piracy. It WILL be cracked.

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    @Nivi: Well, I'm not defending it, necessarily, just trying to be fair with ups and downs, and there are both. Reason constantly asking for its disc could also get annoying. I do personally still prefer online authorization, if it's balanced with a reasonable number of unlocks so you can move between 2-3 computers (since a lot of us use more than one machine). But I imagine some people may be able to live with this.

  • http://nwrecords.com gbsr

    yeah im not disagreeing with you there Peter, i know that reason is indeed very powerful and its routing capabilities can be abused to create some very interesting things, but im still not impressed. it does what just about every other daw does minus . for ease of use it seems to really hit the spot, but i wont jump from my reaper+live setup anytime soon i think :)

    i was a bit disappointed considering all the buzz about this, and that teaser video was meant to blow our minds, and when it did hit official, all it did was to show us reason + audio recording and comping which you have been able to do since, well.. forever.

    right, a mixer aswell. heh.

    but yeah, theres only one way to find out if its really all that. trying to get my hands on the beta and see how well it performs. ill be looking forward to seeing some more posts about performing with it in particular, so get right on it Peter! hehe.

  • http://www.musicfortheblind.co.uk/ Nivi

    @Peter

    Reason only asks me pretty occasionally, and this reads to me less like an activation and more a dependency. If you only had to do it once, that would be fine, but you have to do it every time you boot the thing up, slowing boot time and making it take longer to get to the point where you can actually record.

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    @Nivi: Well, it can be annoying, but *boot time* for sure isn't the problem. It boots obscenely quickly. Live with no plug-ins takes longer, and once you add in plug-ins, almost everything else takes eons to load. I love plug-ins, but that means I could see that for a quick recording, Record could have some appeal. And unlike using an audio editor for the purpose, you can embed tempo information and export that as MIDI.

  • http://www.musicfortheblind.co.uk/ Nivi

    …and by "pretty occasionally", I mean once, after I restored a Time Machine backup.

  • dajebus

    All that hype for a messy looking GarageBand clone.

    Boring.

    Propellerheads are even more irrelevant than before.

  • http://www.musicfortheblind.co.uk/ Nivi

    Ooh, it actually exports the tempo automation now? That's something I found sorely missing from 4.

    But yeah, I was all about buying this, but if they feel so determined to cripple it like this, I don't believe I want to any more.

  • http://andrew.hicox.com plurgid

    Two great LULz from the promo video

    1) the look on the vocalist's face when the announcer says "mute the ones that suck"

    2) "smug engineers"

    I have to say, I've avoided Reason, in spite of an unabashed love affair with it's predecessor, ReBirth, precisely because there's no audio recording or editing.

    I'm not sure how revolutionary this is, other than massive simplification. This is basically Reason + GarageBand + Line 6 + SSL Console Emu, right?

    That's actually a real power-house for song writing. I might be buying this.

  • http://www.last.fm/music/(noou) (noou)

    this really looks like an assault to Live's immediacy and no-hassle approach, at least to its audio recording component.

    let's see if it works.

    i once had the chance to speak to the head of Propellerheads criticizing Reason for its old-style rack-based vintage tape-recorder approach (although efficient), comparing it to Live's innovative paradigm for music making. Hopefully Record is something more modern.

  • waveplant

    @ot – agreed that limitations help focus, but why do you need your main sequencing package to mandate those limitations? my favorite thing about logic is that you get to design *how* it limits your workflow. sure, it does everything (some stuff better than others), but the best thing about it is that you can design your environment and pick and choose what you need and what you don't. to me, that's what makes it pro, and what makes reason consumer.

    don't get me wrong though, it's a fantastic product for what it is.

  • http://www.musicfortheblind.co.uk/ Nivi

    @waveplant

    Who says it has to be your main sequencing package?

    You can rewire it all to another DAW if you want to.

  • http://www.cuckoo.no CUCKOO

    Propellerhead speaks of this thing as if it was the easiest and most effective way to work, with nothing in the way between you and your masterpiece.

    But… just looking at that mixing table could probably discourrage ANYONE. Not only novices.. but people like me who are used to knobs and computers. Looking at a mixer should ultimately give you a quick overview of things. This mixer looks terrible.

    And the "backside interface" which I really like personally, even though it quickly gets messy, isn't probably the most straight forward model to connect devices.

    However.. ultimately, for me personally, it's about keeping the flow alive, and getting the sound that I want. If it turns out the EQ is as great as they say it is, if the Line6 effects are good, if the overall flow is smooth, I might concider it over logic :)

  • http://apeskinny.com spinner

    Got to have a spin on it before I'll put down a verdict but think I agree with a lot of other comments here. It looks like a pretty cool DAW if you're already a Reason fan or if you're just starting out. There's nothing revolutionary with it tho and I know if I work with it I will miss Logic's MIDI feature, PT's audio capability, Live's ease and all my AD plugs. A completely modular system with total rewire for Live and plug in support then yes, now……

    I'd say fail sorry guys.

  • http://apeskinny.com spinner

    Hmm I obviously mean "Final" verdict as I pretty much summed my feelings in the first post ;)

  • poodleface

    I can't blame Propellerhead with going with a more involved copy protection. The Ignition Key seems reasonable to me, since it is coupled with Internet Activation and one of the most generous Demo modes I've heard of. They seem really concerned with the authorization not getting in the way of you wanting to sketch out an idea.

    Massive simplification is great, actually, when you are just trying to record a song. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've lost an idea in my head trying to wrestle with random audio hardware/software issues. I've actually stopped using external plugins (whenever possible) with Ableton Live in an attempt keep the environment as stable as possible.

    I'll be interested in playing with the beta and seeing how the "tempo-independent" audio works. I'm already sold on the idea of being able to comp a take easily.

    When you are just trying to put a song together by yourself, massive simplification is a good thing, actually.

  • http://spark.commandlineninja.ca spark

    Yeah Cubase SX has dongle and I've never had a problem with it. I prefer dongle to authorization though. But if you have multiple apps running with dongles.. it can get messy.

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    Well, right, if you run Record inside Cubase or Pro Tools, I guess you wind up with *two* dongles plugged in. Fun times.

  • http://midimechanics.blogspot.com/ MPC2000xl

    Hmm, I just can't cope with all the features of Reason, so it's still hardware for me… (an MPC, two synths and a handfull of EFX)…

    My son however, will get a macbook loaded with reason and an external controller, once he's old enough…

  • http://www.keyofgrey.com KeyOfGrey

    Just signed up for the beta testing. Thanks for the indepth look!

  • Dylan

    Signed up for the beta.

    Looking forward to using this with Bidule.

  • http://spark.commandlineninja.ca spark

    dueling dongles

  • jonathan adams leona

    Adsense bait.

  • BobbyQuine

    It's amazing how many people are missing the point here. Propellerhead is not trying to amass new followers or change the 'DAW' market. They are trying to give their dedicated users what they've always wanted…an easier way to integrate, record and manipulate audio within the Reason environment in a Reason-style way. If you don't like Reason you won't like Record. If you aren't an avid user of the software you're not going to care. If Reason is your main production tool, this is HUGE.

    Let's just all pick a weapon and make the best music we can.

    Peace.

  • DIM

    Has any one hear any thing on pitch shifting I am only hearing about timestreching but what about the other.Can one shift the bass track from c to f . CAN IT QUANTISE AUDIO

  • ps

    The dongle is a bad idea. The dongle hasn't stopped anyone from using Cubase without paying, and it won't stop people with this program. I liked reaper's approach. Fully functional with a bitch screen.

    The only demo of this program I will try is a fully functional one, that has been cracked to run without a dongle.

  • Brian

    It seems like with a more static mixing console approach, you'll end up having to do a lot of scrolling to get things done in Record, which seems like a big hassle.

    I like the approach of most other DAWs to only create sends/busses/eqs/etc. when needed.

  • DIM

    To propellerhead steping up the game

    YOU GUYS CAUSE QUITE A STIR WITH THIS PRODUCT.AS IT APPEARES A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE USING REASON AND IS INTRESTED IN PURCHASING IT . EVEN THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE CRACK VERSIONS.THE DONGLE IS A GOOD IDEA AS I SEE YOU WANT TO PROTECT YOUR SOFTWARE.HOWEVER THERE ARE ALOT OF THINGS YOU LEFT UNANSWERD ABOUT THE PRODUCT.AND A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE GENUINE CONCERNS ABOUT THE PRODUCT.HERE IS A LINK OF WHAT PEOPLE WERE SAYING EVEN BEFORE THE PRODUCT WAS LUNCH http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/0…rely-new-t…
    I HOPE YOU READ THEM ALL AS A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE YOUR WORKFLOW AND I HAVE NEVER SEEN A SINGLE PRODUCT CAUSE QUITE A STIR IN MAY YEARS. PEOPLE LOVE THE COLOURS AND WORKFLOW IN REASON AND RECORD .HOWEVER MANY PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR SOME ABLETON FEATURES QUANTISE AUDIO, VST ECT WHICH SHOULD BE A MUST.INTIGRATION OF RECYCLE IN REASON OR RECORD SHOULD HAVE BEEN A MUST ALONG SIDE PITCH SHIFTING OF AUDIO.

    I THINK YOU GUYS HAVE THE POTENCIAL TO BE THE BEST IN THE WORLD EVEN PUTTING THE BEST LIKE PROTOOL,CUBASE ECT. TO SHAME .YOU JUST NEED TO STEP UP YOUR GAME A LITTLE .AS I WOULD NOT WANT TO SEE A GOOD COMAPNY LIKE YOU GUYS GO AWAY. PEOPLE ALWAYS LIKE WHAT YOU PRODUCE BUT PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO WAIT TOO LONG AS WE NEED EASIER TOOLS TO PRODUCE.SO PLEASE STEP UP THE GAME A LITTLE MORE.

    KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.LOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOUR NEXT UPGRADE OR VERSION PREATY SOON !!!

  • JDSampo

    @BobbyQuine

    You're absolutely correct. I believe I'm in the target demographic. I'm a happy Reason user who has to rewire something else to record audio on those occasions I need to do that. Currently I use Reaper for that or occasionally Live. I've been wanting a recording program that would seamlessly integrate with Reason and now it appears I'm going to get that.

    I'm a relatively old guy and the whole patching with cables/hardware metaphor works for me. It's just like the way I used to work when I had hardware except I get more of it. Working with a finite set of tools doesn't bother me either. I ran out of money long before I ran out of ideas :-) Anyway, to have that workflow in an audio recording package is perfect for me and I suppose a bunch of other people who like the way Reason works.

    –JD

  • J. Phoenix

    As a long-time Reason user (since 1.0), I'm very interested in this development.

    But it is a weird feeling for me because I usually have a knee-jerk reaction to hearing the acronym "DAW", (short of it having the potential to unseat Protools' reign) and any copy protection scheme tends to make my head feel crawly…

    On the other hand, recording audio in a Reason interface has been something I've always wanted since 2.0, and I know Propellerhead's coding is excellent.

    On the other other hand, I'm not sure where I'd find Reason Record's place in my arsenal; Ableton Live has replaced/displaced almost everything I used to use…

  • stan munch

    How many hands you got, Phoenix?

    I would've been very excited about Record . . . in 2001.

    But now? Meh.

    stan m.

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    If it makes you feel any better, the press release this morning specifically asked us not to call it a DAW. ;)

    I mean, ultimately, it doesn't matter what you call things. These are all music production tools, period. Ableton I think felt they were unfairly *not* getting compared to tools that they could replace (if you so desired), and now Propellerhead feels the opposite way, evidently.

    But whether it's SONAR or Reason or whatever, I think the only thing that matters is that you start with what you want to do and work out from there, not simply try to start with a category and work backwards.

  • Nosaer

    i like new Record…i would buy it just for that Mixer….looks awesome…SSL at your hand..reason with record will be huge…for all people intresting in MAKING music…it is props philosophy.if you like it good….if you don't…move along:)

  • Jonathan

    A dongle?

    I use Reason *daily* and I enjoy the workflow and effects. I would have been thrilled to buy Record.

    But, a dongle? You have got to be kidding me. I suppose that being a good, honest, hard working person, I'm not the target audience for Record. I'm more than happy to pay premium prices for good tools. I paid a premium price for a small, thin, powerful laptop. And I don't need anything sticking out of it, or an extra port used up. And no, trusting an internet connection lest I be left with only the ability to save and not open isn't good enough.

    How about this: Propellerhead is only allowed to use the money I paid them while I'm actually using the software. As long as their internet connection is working, they can connect to me and use the money. Fair's fair.

    The copy protection disgusts and angers me. Businesses need to focus on their customers – that is – people who *pay*. Users who are infringing on copyright law are not customers. A business should not spend its money, time, or other resources pandering to nonpaying users. Those users should be ignored.

  • salamanderanagram

    why i will not be purchasing this product –

    1) dongle = EPIC FAIL! did you think i had no other uses for my USB ports? you're wrong! i need a mouse, an external harddrive, an external sound card, and a USB/MIDI interface. gee, let me just take apart my whole setup because you can't make a proper copy-protection scheme. suuuure.

    actually, this will lead to increased piracy as even people who have legit copies will want a pirated copy in order to use it without the hassle of having constant internet or wasting a USB port.

    2)why is this not an upgrade to reason? as a reason user (and i love reason, so i'm not just trying to bash props here, i am actually disappointed by this) this is just unacceptable. what we've been asking for for years, you finally decide to make a separate product?! why!? especially if it integrates seamlessly with reason, it makes no sense to have 2 different products. frankly it seems like they could have added an audio-in module to reason and that would have been enough. how hard can that be for the people who invented rewire? puh-lease.

    3) the appealing this here is the time-stretch which sounds great…. $250 great? nope.

  • Nosaer

    i like live alot…but ableton is fuc..d up version 8…i have problems all the time…with props you don't have problems at all….and that is for me priceless….thanks

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    Confirmed: there is no MIDI output in Record. Can someone explain to me why you'd want that in this particular program, though? The whole point seems to keeping all these internal modules fully integrated. And at that, it looks fantastic. It doesn't look like it has anything I'd want in a sequencer for outboard gear, and there are already exceptional choices out there – like Five12's Numerology, or a tracker like Renoise – for straight-up MIDI sequencing.

    I hear the dongle complaints, but even if I thought I would never want to use this, I have to applaud the decision not to try to do everything or be all things to all people. We have tools that do that already; we don't need another.

    If someone can explain to me why they want MIDI out, though, I'm ready to hear it!

    @salamanderanagram – the problem is, you need a different interface to accomodate this new mixing structure, recording comps/takes, and so on. You have access to Reason modules in this environment, so that part is covered, and it sounds as though there's upgrade pricing. So I'm not sure I understand your complaint entirely.

    I think some Reason users *won't* want this, and that's even more of an argument for keeping them separate.

    Anyway, I do see wanting just an audio input in Reason and not this other stuff. (And that argument I absolutely agree with.) For that, I'd still go to the support available free in ASIO4ALL, unless you're on Mac. Reason 5, perhaps, with an audio input just for modulating sound? I could see that being useful.

  • http://www.soilsound.com SOILSOUND

    Too little. Too late.

  • ehdyn

    Just want to say that Record is more revolutionary than it first appears.

    As I mentioned on KVR when you "record" with this program you dump anything into it like a blender and it's constantly churning in the background performing a sophisticated FFT analysis.

    This is not simply time-strecthing like every other program out there.

    What you are left with is data that behaves like putty.

    Propellerheads have indeed done something incredible that very few seem to grasp yet.

    They have largely succeeded in freeing us from MIDI.

  • The Brain

    @salamanderanagram…USB hubs are cheap come on bro. Saying that you don't want your ports taken up by a dongle is not a good argument anymore bro. I agree maybe they could have just have one product for everything. It all comes down to bizniz I guess. Maybe there will not be a Reason 5. Just Record 2.0 with everything built into it. Who knows. As a die hard Reason user I am in heaven at the moment.

  • salamanderanagram

    "there is no MIDI output in Record. Can someone explain to me why you’d want that in this particular program, though?"

    the reason i would want it is that, having written midi handlers before, i know it can be done pretty easily. especially by props who already has the codebase lying around. when i'm working with sound, i like to have as many capabilities (in this instance for syncing with other programs, time clock, etc). as possible, preferably without running 30 programs at once. what i see a lot of coming from props as of late is "well, no it can't do that, but you can do that with product X". how many audio processing programs am i supposed to have?

    "So I’m not sure I understand your complaint entirely. "

    my complaint is that, really, they should have added a new mixer to reason and an audio input module to reason; not had some separate product do it for you. in other words, this looks like a $100 reason upgrade to me, not a $250 product. it also seems like they were probably doing no work on reason either, so it's being left behind, and if you want to keep up with the new mixer, the new comp, etc you need to buy an entirely different product, in this case one that i literally can't use because i don't have the space for the dongle in my setup without sacrificing MIDI or sound output. gee, how well thought out.

    i can't imagine that combining the workflows would be that difficult especially since you already can record midi in reason; and it's obvious from the videos they've recycled a large part of the reason interface/codebase. it's like they REfuse to have one product do all things you want and instead make you buy 3 (reason, recycle, and now record).

    "Reason 5, perhaps, with an audio input just for modulating sound?"

    exactly. seriously. they've already made rewire. how hard can it be?

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    @ehdyn: Right, exactly – and I think that's what's most important here:

    * A modular mixing environment that works with Reason modules

    * Truly fluid approach to audio, without the usual loops or slicing/marker metaphors

    – it'll take some months to see how it pulls it off, and it's not for everyone, but that's the story.

    What's missing that I suspect some people will want is easy audio manipulation of pitch, whereas this does mostly tempo. I know Ernst has confirmed you can export from Record and go into Melodyne, which is pretty fantastic. If at some point Record could integrate the Melodyne technology, that I think would count as a revolution.

    Oh, but don't say "freeing us from MIDI," as that's not really the point, I think. All those Reason synth modules are still there, and for those of us who love synths, being "free" from MIDI means using something more sophisticated for control, not switching to all audio recording. I love audio recording, too, but I'm never going to get tired of synthesis. ;) Two different things.

  • salamanderanagram

    @thebrain

    lol, another product i need to buy apparently before using this the way i should be able to.

    so now i need – reason, record, a USB hub and an external DAW? geez. no thanks.

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    @salamanderanagram: Right, but if they added things like MIDI out, they wouldn't be Propellerhead any more. :)

    Now, the one thing I could see supporting this as I think about it is the person who wants to use all those audio recording tools to capture sounds from outboard synths. So, yes, I can see why you'd want it; I take that back. But then again, I'd want a tool that focuses on MIDI *sequencing*, which this doesn't, so I don't see the lack of MIDI *out* to be a huge deal-killer.

    We've got lots and lots of software that does everything. So that's WHY Props aren't calling this a DAW – because it doesn't try to do that.

    I still think Numerology is the hottest sequencer out there for outboard MIDI, and I've got lots of other choices. And the reason Numerology is a good choice is precisely because it focuses on doing just one thing (modular MIDI sequencing) and isn't just MIDI crammed into a DAW, which I think has never been quite as satisfying.

    If you're working with outboard gear and can do the sequencing right, then you can record it just about anywhere (including Record, provided you sequence elsewhere)

  • salamanderanagram

    peter i understand your points, and no MIDI out is not a dealbreaker (unlike some other things i outlined). but it is frustrating, especially because the behavior could be added with 100 lines of code or less…

    further, when they have all this talk about 'just plug in and go' in the video, but then you find out you need 4 other programs to get all the feature you want, well it's pretty disappointing.

    "So that’s WHY Props aren’t calling this a DAW – because it doesn’t try to do that."

    one way or another, and i'm sure that i'm not the only one who feels this way, props needs to figure out how to combine their product base. all of their products together + MIDI out and VST support (both of which would be incredibly easy to add, BTW, i would do it for them if their code was open source) would essentially be a DAW. i don't want to run 5 programs to get the effect that i want. it's a pain in the ass.

    i think (especially with VST support) that props is being obstinate, which ends up hurting a lot more than helping. it's a freaking standard, support it!

    for the record, i love reason, and use it all the time. i just hate having to run it into ableton to do the things i want.

  • ehdyn

    @Peter Kirn

    When I say freeing us from MIDI, what I mean is that this is as revolutionary as the day when MIDI first appeared.

    The Reason why we use MIDI in a DAW is largely because of flexibility right?

    This program makes audio so malleable that you can work with audio as if it were MIDI.

    Most musicians if given the chance would just work directly with audio and waveforms for an entire project.

    You are talking about "correcting" pitch with melodyne.

    Record changes your way of working from "correcting" to recording it correctly in the first!

    So yes, use midi to trigger synths and drummachines into record.

    Once you've got your takes in there, you can manipulate it almost as if it were MIDI.

    That's what I meant by relegating MIDI to the sidelines.

  • essex sound lab

    @Peter Kirn: Record has a MIDI sequencer in it, but it only targets soft synths from Propellerhead. That just smacks of being proprietary–not a "smart" design choice based on user need. I love Numerology and can see Numerology+Record as being a perfect duo. But I can also see wanting to just lay down a simple sequence from a keyboard, capture it as a MIDI track in Record and then have it for mixdown later. Hard to do with Numerology (that's not what *it's* designed for either…and rightly so!) With Record I'd still need to find something else to fire up alongside it to do something really simple. Urgh.

  • DIM

    Peter Kirn are you a rep for the company ?

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    @DIM: Uh… no.

    So, just to be clear, though, I'm NOT saying I think this approach is *better* than the integrated DAW approach. On the contrary, I think the whole reason we have had DAWs this long is because they make a whole hell of a lot of sense to a lot of us / for a lot of applications. It's the reason eventually Ableton wound up adding features that made it look more DAW-like (and happily they were able to do that without sacrificing their workflow and UI paradigm, at least in my opinion).

    This is just a different approach, and it seems to me to be typically Propellerhead-y. There are some upsides (tighter integration), and some downsides (yeah, maybe you do have outboard MIDI gear to work with, or maybe you really do miss your plug-ins).

    But I still say we *need* some different approaches. Choice is good.

    "Proprietary" — well, no, not really; it's not as though they're locking you out of doing other things — they did invent ReWire. It's just an alternative. If you support outboard gear or plug-ins, there are other things you'd have to change about the way the program works — that's the fundamental nature of development.

    Obviously, we know Reason people generally like it (with a few exceptions), and the jury is out for everyone else. But I don't think you can say on one hand that the DAW market is overcrowded, and on the other hand that Record should have been more like other DAWs. That doesn't make ANY rational sense at all. The market *is* overcrowded by things that do basically the same set of things, leaving opportunities for other things (not just Record) that don't.

  • essex sound lab

    @ehdyn: If only I could then use Melodyne to then pick up a note and move it in time or pitch. Oh that's right…no plug-ins! Grrr.

    So Record is a "simple" recording tool that intentionally omits functionality (and is meant to be used by songwriters not engineers). But faithfully reproduces a high-end mixing console?

    I'd like to love this thing, but some of the omissions just seem wrong-headed.

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    @salamanderanagram – yes, it's only a few hundred lines of code for MIDI out. But there's the question of how you handle it in the UI. And when you talk about plug-in support, there are profound implications for how you assign controllers, how you do timing, how stability works, how long the tool takes to load, etc., etc.

    So I think in the long run, with all the other hosts we've gotten that do VST, not having it in Reason has turned out not to be such a tragedy after all. Even if you don't use their software, I think the world is better off with the occasional Propellerhead who marches to the beat of their … uh, own MIDI clock.

  • essex sound lab

    @Peter Kirn: Carefully implementing features that target your own products but preclude dirct connection with other products (or the outside world!) is pretty much the definition of "proprietary". I still don't understand having a MIDI sequencer that doesn't actually output MIDI to anything.

    And ReWire doesn't cut it as a replacement for plug-ins or MIDI out. Sorry.

  • http://www.kentsandvik.com Kent Sandvik

    Well, to make this musican-friendly, you need a way to splice recordings into separate regions for re-arranging the verse-chorus-intro-bridge sections and so on, or shuffling around these sections to find the right combination. I didn't see this in Record. Looks nice but there's a lot of work to make this all more musician-friendly…

  • Jaime Munarriz

    Reason users want to handle audio INSIDE Reason itself! If you need to open a separate program, Reaper or any old Cubase allows fancy professional effects, like the Waves or Sonitus families, and also crazy stuff like Ohm's or a zillion free addons…

    We were waiting for Reason+Audio, and then… ReAct : the live tool from Propellerhead!

    (or maybe ReAction?) : A cross between Live and a Groovebox, with plenty of pads and knobs, integrating with any hardware controller.

    !

  • Jaime Munarriz

    Oh, sorry, I just read:

    Two Become One

    "If you have Reason registered and installed on your computer, all your favorite Reason devices will automatically be available within Record's ever-expandable, multiple racks. No setting up. No ReWire. It just works.

    Continue where you left off

    When using Record and Reason together, your Reason song files can be opened from within Record, letting you continue on your creations where you left off. When you save your work as a Record project, the Reason devices become part of the Record document.

    Sound Libraries

    When using Record and Reason together, Record becomes fully ReFill compatible – use patches from any ReFill sound library directly in Record."

    So, it becomes a Reason+Audio, you just have to buy both.

  • Jaime Munarriz

    By the way, the video is wrong, the website is:

    http://www.record-you.com

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    @essex: Well, I see what you're saying, but they're not blocking interoperability or failing to use a standard. They don't support ANY plug-in, period. I don't think the ability to use Reason even counts, because those aren't plug-ins — Reason and Record just happen to be architected on their own proprietary technology. So, yes, this is proprietary, but so is the whole product. ;)

    Also, while I'm a huge fan of plug-ins and a huge fan of standards and interoperability, that doesn't mean that making everything a VST host or VST plug-in is always the answer. Using plug-ins requires tradeoffs in resource consumption, how you handle tempo sync, how you handle routing, how you load the program, etc., etc.

    It's not anti-competitive. It's their own tool; they just chose what the capabilities of that tool would be, and decided that third-party extensibility wasn't one of them.

    But ReWire, while not a panacea and not for everyone, has over its history allowed people to create interoperable setups that otherwise wouldn't have been possible. I'd actually rather see other mechanisms for this now, and I have some technical complaints about ReWire, but just as VST has, it's helped to keep the musical tools we use diverse.

    Now, I use plug-ins all the time, so for that reason I know right now I wouldn't use Record for everything I do. But I still appreciate the fact that they made this decision. Reason has proven to be beloved by some and ignored by others, too, and that's how artistic tools should be.

  • DIM

    Peter Kirn don't get me wrong I never want reason to change as I think they have the best idea for what we are looking for as dont want it to be like the others .Right now I have so many refils,I don't need to go out to work.However I need more in the editing of audio.example when I RECORD MY outboard gear say in g sharp will i be able to change it to c.I can also see why people want vst cause they put thousand of dollars in it and quit frankly the other don't live up.REASON cause quit a stir and like I always say they have potencial to be the best

  • salamanderanagram

    sorry i'm not trying to troll i really just have nothing better to do right now. in fairness i should say that i am signed up for the beta and will have more of an idea what this is and how i feel about it when i get in.

    @peter

    have matrix output midi data. it already integrates into record, you'd just need a switch that went from CV mode to MIDI. it would be easy, trust, they clearly just don't want to, though i can't imagine why. adding it to reason would be so easy it's absurd.

    for VSTs i realize there is compability, etc, etc, but there are freeware VST hosts out there, so i'm not that sympathetic. besides if i load a VST into reason and it crashes and slows it down to unacceptable level, i know not to use that plug-in anymore. sometimes that happens with ableton. it's better than not having the choice.

    i don't expect reason to do everything. but it would be nice if they at least tried to keep up with standards, instead of openly sneering at the thought.

  • j250xor

    What would be great now is that seeing as Propellerheads main excuse for never adding audio ins to reason was that they 'didn't want it to be another DAW' and that 'audio input would make the program less stable', they've clearly found a way to do it. Now we have a program that can process live audio using reason modules.

    So Propellerhead: Adapt the code, and ship it as a simple upgrade to reason. Just an extra rack unit with a row of audio inputs on. You don't need to change the sequencer because if people have an insane desire to manipulate audio, they can do that in record. Just give us the audio input! Sell it for $99 on your website, it's not gonna cost that much in development terms and you'll make a fortune from everyone clamouring to just use reason as a really great set of instruments and processing objects.

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    Well, to everyone, all these criticisms are actually going to be really helpful down the road when it's review time (and not just preview), so keep them coming!

    @Kent: that does seem to be missing, and I agree, could limit the appeal to some of the target audience.

    @salamanderanagram: Yeah, I'm actually taking back the MIDI output comment. I think the modular modules and the fact that the whole point is recording external audio mean that it could be really nice. Then again, you can't do everything in version 1.0 – just to keep up with quality, sometimes you have to sacrifice things you might like to do. But I am willing to move this into the "would be nice" category after all. ;)

  • DIM

    salamanderanagram I totally agree with your last coment

  • JonYo

    @Peter

    Sooooo, a small question on Reason integration. Is there anything that we can currently do in Reason that we won't be able to do in Record with Reason integration? Aside from the modules themselves, will all the same Reason-oriented editing capabilities be there?

    Oh, another small Q, since you apparently already have a demo in hand: Do the new Line6 modules have any CV inputs? I hope to do quite a bit of guitar mangling.

    Considering that it's only going to be $150 for existing Reason owners, I'm already sold. I'm a Logic user, and while I doubt I'll be abandoning it anytime soon, I still look forward to seeing how the workflow goes with Reason+Record.

  • essex sound lab

    @Peter Kirn: Well, it's a 4-month beta so maybe they'll have time to add MIDI out. :-)

    Seriously, that would be enough for me to ditch Logic and Live, and just run Numerology+Record. And spend less time sitting in front of my computer when I should be standing in front of my modular!

  • essex sound lab

    Oh, and there should be a full-screen mode for the tuner so I can see it when I'm standing in front of my Q960's. :-)

  • Jaime Munarriz

    The video makes it clear: it is intended for recording a band. And a good solution it seems!

    I love the mixer.

    But for more adventurous work, we need the weird plugins… GRM tools, Spectral delays, Ohm, deLaMancha… so, export again, or ReWire.

  • Anig Browl

    Yes, it is too little too late. I still like Reason and will give this a trial run, but the Propellerheads lost the audio initiative a while back and this may not get it back for them.

    MIDI out: it's real simple. A lot of people have hardware synths, which they want to use for something more than just keyboard controllers. However, not all computer musicians are good keyboard players. So for the same reason you might want to record guitar or bass or vocals, you might want to knock up a little step sequence and then send it out to (keyboard with sound you just can't copy).

    Sure, you can always export MIDI and import it into some other piece of software. But they make a big thing of having MIDI support, and MIDI stands for 'musical instrument digital interface', not 'Computer-only sequencing protocol'.

  • http://makingsound.free.fr Cyril

    I was happy first, but then :

    > "Record is NEW !"

    Really ? Where. I only see a classic DAW. Mixer + (simple) audio recording + internal midi and that's all. There is nothing new here.

    > No midi out

    Do we have to wait another 5 years for a product only dedicated to midi ? It's a joke.

    > Dongle

    3 hits combo. I use a laptop, i don't have any free USB port for this.

    I'm really disapointed.

  • Jaime Munarriz

    How does it handle recording files? Everything compact, inside a packed file, or a folder with individual files…?

  • salamanderanagram

    @jamie according to one video, everything is in one file. which is nice in a way but i hope you can access those recordings in other files too…

  • essex sound lab

    On the dongle (just to get all the negative stuff out of the way…), I was hoping for a more clever solution based on the weekend's "completely rethought dongle approach" hype.

    Internet validation does nothing for me, as my studio is in a rehearsal facility without phone lines or Internet connectivity.

    For people that think you can just add a USB hub for one more port, you clearly haven't had to deal with USB foibles…especially when you have things like a Virus TI on the bus. Just adding a hub can throw things off. It's a point of irritation that software developers can avoid.

    Again, I'd probably be less annoyed if we hadn't been told that Propellorhead had thought through all the problems and come up with a remarkable solution. They haven't.

  • Jaime Munarriz

    I had two dongles on the Atari for Cubase. They made the system crash. So we had to use a pirate copy. No more lost sessions.

    Sad.

  • hater

    Peter is it possible for you to crawl ANY further up the arse of PHeads?

    Christ man this is nothing more than a PIECE OF SHIT.

  • Jupiter

    I don't get the this-looks-like-a-$100-reason-upgrade-not-a-$250-product argument. It IS actually a $149 upgrade for Reason Owners.

  • ehdyn

    @essex sound lab

    I'm excited to see the effect Record will have on music!

    There are subtle aspects of democratization and fetishization present here.

    Amateurs will have the ability to craft incredibly dense, wide sound-fields.

    Pro's will be reminded of Tape and all that it entails.

    A person using Record will be thinking musically. They will go into a creative space and let it flow out of them over and over again. Whether that's singing or improvising with an elaborate MAX patch.

    They will review their takes and trim the fat – *IF* there is any.

    They can perform sophisticated comping and crossfades.

    Onto the effects.

    Render.

    Now you can bring this into a traditional DAW if you like for further editing or processing.

    —————————————————

    Notice how I put *IF* ?

    People should take this CEO of Propellerheads at face value. He really does want to help musicians.

    He is trying to get you back to the mentality of performing "correctly" the first time.

    Like most of you I have many synthesizers hard and soft and enjoy programming them very much. Even taking the time to create sequencers in visual programming languages with more functionality than off the shelf varieties.

    I was surprised when I purchased a Kaoscillator recently.

    Doesn't do much does it?

    If you've never used one this might not make much sense.

    It allows you to jam and overdub in a very basic fashion. If you're on your third layer and you make a mistake, that's it start over. You can't go in and perform any editing.

    One person says "this is a useless toy".

    A different person comes along and says "Wow, I can really get into this".

    If you take the time to *Practice*, you can jam with it and build up layers.

    The net result is a complex composite sandwich.

    I was surprised at how this little thing changed everything.

    It changed the way I interact with my other gear.

    I'm banging on it in a rhythmic fashion, twisting knobs with the beat of the pulse.

    More Pink Floyd – Less Kraftwerk if that make sense.

    Think that's what Ernst is trying to get us to remember.

    Be Musical firstly. Practice firstly. Then you Record.

  • http://newbiecleardawn.com N-Newbie

    I'm super excited about this app, it's clearly way better than Logic 8 and Pro Tools HD combined. Who needs external VST plugins when you have real analog SSL channel strips built in! I'm just hoping there's a supersaw module for us trance heads in europe because I don't really need the audio recording features, just plenty of saws! Awesome review by the way, good to have impartial opinions not influenced by advertising revenue. Thanks.

  • http://newbiecleardawn.com N-Newbie

    p.s. I'm definitely buying it, what little i've seen so far is enough for me to want to splash out, in fact I'd buy it if it was twice the price and had half the features.

  • aperape

    Makes Babya Logic Look HOT.

  • edison

    i heart reason…

    but once i stepped out of its box…

    NOTHING will get me back in it…

    ableton for life homie!

  • audioworld

    speaking as an old-fashioned sound engineer:

    the mixer alone (look at the full strip!) makes me a very happy person. seeing all the eqs, sends and dynamics for e.g. all the drum mikes next to each other gives you control over energy balance which i missed for a long long time (=15 years ago on the last analog neve console I mixed on, and it did NOT have dynamics at all…). Look! A phase switch on each channel! gain! I have to insert some dumb plugin even for those simple but essential tools with all the other apps.

    mhhh, I night just miss the attack knob on the compressor, "fast" will not do it, attack is the most important parameter to fine-tune… and what about an expander insert in the effects send bus??? sigh….

  • essex sound lab

    @ehdyn: Hey, I hear that intent.

    Vastly more useful with MIDI out, though. Make me jump through hoops to use its "MIDI sequences" with actual MIDI gear and I'd argue that "muscial flow" goes out the window. It would have been more in keeping with your proposed intent to have avoided including a note event editor at all.

  • gallob

    I see the limits, like most, but I wont' judge yet. The true test will be working on it, hands on. I have owned Reason since version 1. Many times, I have abandoned it for fancier VSTs. I own Logic, Ableton, a bunch of NIs and Spectrasonics plugs, but then I go back to Reason and start creating again, marvelling at that little thing that can (if you know what you are doing). And yes, it just works. If this does the same for recording, improves the Reason workflow,and it has warmer sound, to me it's a winner. The upgrade price is right, and you can always rewire to your fancier DAW if you need to.

    On the other hand, I think the Props overhyped this too much, hence the gripes. And yes, not allowing pitch-shifting and Midi Out was not that smart either. But that's what future upgrades are for?!?…. Let's hope it won't take them another 4 years.

    These guys could really be a lot bigger than they are, if they really wanted…..shame.

  • ehdyn

    @essex sound lab

    Thank you for taking the time to read what I wrote.

    Yeah, I think it's about a paradigmatic shift.

    If you try to see it through our conventional lenses it makes little sense. It's not recursive in the traditional sense.

    When you see and hear it demonstrated in person you start to see how it will change you. Give it a shot. i think you can successfully incorporate it into your workflow. Play everything into Record. Then just use it for sweetening.

    For me I think of Walter Murch and how he performs the Edit.

    There's something different about Tape.

    The expense of it makes you more precious with it.

    The physical labor invloved makes your edits more thoughtful.

    My brother and I have always done little movies. With the advent of digicams and terabyte hardrives it's tempting to just suck up everything and try to whittle it down later.

    Took us a while to realize that we need to be careful about how much we intake.

    Know what I mean?

    I hear you and Peter about MIDI. I use it everyday. It's okay when you're confined to one program. What happens when you try to use a software drum machine with a hardware synthesizer? It's serial communication and it's shit-it contains notions of what music "is' according to the governing bodies that created it circa 1980. Believe me, I wish OSC would take off or something like it.

    Can't wait for the day when we have a spectral sequencer.

    Cheating MIDI with "Ghost Tracks", passing voltages with Volta, manipulating audio like silly-putty with Record, whatever it takes to get around these artificial constraints on creativity.

  • ehdyn

    @Johnny

    Elements exist independently of absolute time.

  • zenzen

    Thanks for the preview Peter. Like many others I'm open to using more than one tool to get the job done. In my fantasy world, I'd become a virtuoso on one or two apps, astounding my friends (and clients) while confounding my enemies with extraordinary feats of routing and effecting. In real life, I'll use whatever makes intuitive sense for the job. See you in September!

    p.s. glad to see a post that doesn't require soldering and/or a phone/gaming console!

  • johnny

    @ehdyn

    You actually mean it doesnt?

    Also… can Reason3 integrate with Record? or only Reason4?

    Finally… suppose that we have made a song in Reason. Can this song open entirely in Record? Are we'll be able to see the hole arrangement and instruments of the song?

  • Mattias

    @Kent Sandvik: It's like Reason. You can use the razor tool, copy/paste/move all the clips, arrange them, copy a whole region of the track (just mark all of the clips) and arrange.

    Arranging a song, that's a feature that's not missing :)

  • ehdyn

    @johnny

    Precisely, it does not.

    All features of Reason become available in Record if you have it.

    It will require version 4.

  • velocipede

    If I understand correctly, the "ignition key" dongle is a lot more flexible than people are realizing. After starting up with it in your computer, you will be able to remove it because the only thing you need it for is opening files. Furthermore, the fact that you only need it to open files means that at any time on any compatible computer, you could install Record, input some ideas and save your file and hold onto it until you are back with your OR someone else's Record dongle. In other words, in the Propellerhead demo video, that guitarist does not even need to own the software to record his riff idea. Only one band member would really need to own it, but others could still use it to sketch new ideas.

    Actually, it seems like an intrepid user could even use the effects in Record and re-record to a different DAW without owning the software. I am not saying this would be much more ethical than pirating the program, it just seems that it would be possible under the proposed scheme.

  • gallob

    Dumb questions:

    1) does it record Reason's devices own audio? (without some external audio routings,e.g. soundflower, etc)?

    2)if you have a track with a rack of multiple reason synths, which one gets Midi Focus? what about parameter automation?

  • essex sound lab

    @ ehdyn:

    Uhm, if you say so.

    At the risk of beating an already dead horse: I would need Record to output MIDI otherwise I won't be able to make adequate use of it with the significant number of hardware synths that occupy my studio and are core to my work. It appears that other people have similar needs. It seems like a feature that wouldn't break the paradigm of Record. How could it? They already have a "MIDI sequencer" feature for use with Reason instruments.

    Hopefully they will chose to add MIDI Out. If they don't, I respectfully suggest that they rename the MIDI sequencer to The Reason Note Editor.

  • salamanderanagram

    "I don’t get the this-looks-like-a-$100-reason-upgrade-not-a-$250-product argument. It IS actually a $149 upgrade for Reason Owners."

    no, it is a $150 new program for Reason owners. i know that seems like a quibble, but the fact of the matter is, a year or two down the road they're going to upgrade reason and record. and then i'm going to have pay an upgrade fee TWO times on something should have originally been one product.

  • Eric

    a year or two down the road they’re going to upgrade reason and record. and then i’m going to have pay an upgrade fee TWO times on something should have originally been one product.

    Good point…I wonder if they'll give owners of both a break on the upgrade costs, like they're giving Reason owners a break on the Record price.

  • JPV

    Hmmm… at $299.00 you can get an Mbox Mini with Pro Tools 8.

    Yawn…

  • http://www.joeyheadset.com Joe E. Headset

    I use Reason and Ableton… the former for composition and the latter for sound design and live performance– but I have NEVER been comfortable using Ableton for recording. I love a lot of things about Ableton, but I've always found recording in the software to be an immense headache. Record looks like it works roughly the way I had hoped that recording in Ableton was going to work… and the Reason integration makes it that much better.

  • flangercize

    Nothing against the people @ Propellerhead, I hope they do well, but I don't like the overall sound of their products. Things sound as if they're coated in mud, lacking depth, definition, proper space and character. Cute interface though. Fun and very creative.

  • James

    So yesterday Propellerheads released something to cover recording audio and mixing it in with the other two, Record. Looks good so far, it's cheap if you've already got Reason, it's got a big SSL-inspired mixing console and Line 6 amp simulators for guitar and bass (I love a good amp simulator for synths and vocals, nevermind what they were intended for), excellent time stretching with almost no artifacts (ie: hit the BPM from 125 to 180 and then to 5 without much comprimise in audio quality) and a very simple, stable presentation – one of the reasons I like, er, Reason, is not that it sounds like a Doepfer A-100 (not at all) but that it runs on quite basic specs and is fun to use.

    Then I find there's no MIDI out. Ok, at a stretch, the splicing and warping of the audio engine can perhaps forgive bad playing on my part.

    THEN… the killer… a dongle. Why, WHY, WHY!? Why is it that paying for a piece of software earns you the right to lose a USB port (ideally for a MIDI keyboard or singing Christmas tree) so you can put a stick in there that authorises the software. They don't work sometimes. Some manufacturers require different ones. There are conflicts. It all amounts to a big bag of lame.

    So, this neat little program, which I would normally buy with Reason and chuck on a Macbook or equivalent and have quite quick and easy access to chucking audio into Reason and doing a bit of much needed post production, is off my list. In fact, as is all software requiring a dongle. It's a world I want to avoid.

    People just want to make music, they want to make it fast, and they want variety.

  • crumbly gavin

    Mega- meh! Except the timestretching demos on the website sound pretty amazing. But apart from that… mehhhh!

  • ehdyn

    @James

    If they didn't have a dongle cracks would be ubiquitous and legitimate users would have to pay more money to offset the cost of the piracy.

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  • http://www.machinepop.com Lindon

    I've actually used an SSL 9000 desk on a job, and left the studio at the end with mental note, "my god, I must remember NEVER to work with one of those again if I can help it…". If you're going to emulate a desk without the support of the vendor, why not choose something more usable (err like say a NEVE), sure the sounds all glossy and american and all, but sound and interface DONT need to be the same in S/W does it?

  • vinayk

    Say whatever – this is great for not so powerusers like me. Sort of like the Roland SH201 of music production.

    Despite having purchased a lot of expensive and great sounding software Logic/Live in which I can certainly compose and track things in a basic sense, i'm still not much good at knowing what effects to put where… and how to get things "sounding polished" in the end. And although this will in some ways displace the use of omnisphere/stevenslatedrums/NI plugs etc – I think it will make it easier for someone of my level of knowledge to get things done quickly and simply – at the very least as a musical scratch pad.

    And in some ways teach me the basics of a chain of how to mix/master things.

    So if the beta is anything like the video's suggest i'm pretty much sold.

    (that is not to say i'm not waiting eagerly for max4live – so that I can get the monome integration straight into live – I'm soo glad that i've found music, it's given me the ultimate techno-geek hobby! and the end product usually sounds good too!!! and it all started with enter sandman)

  • Simon Lacelle

    The target market is this:

    The Reason fanatics who have a hard time using software that looks like software (like Live, which I hate for its interface yet find amazing in the hands of others) and were dying to fully use the Vocoder or route a live sound through Thor's modulating capabilities. There are also alot of old-school guys who swear by hardware and it's ''hands-on everything-is-in-your-face'' ease of use but would like the flexibility of software who might be tempted by Record.

  • dajebus

    @ehdyn

    You know that ALL software does end up cracked? Or with a keygen?

    Often before it shows up in retail.

    So why burden people who WILL pay for it with a useless dongle?

    I will never understand companies.

  • ehdyn

    @johnny

    Apologies, I've been informed it does in fact work with prior versions of Reason.

  • johnny

    QUESTION: Can you drag & drop audio loops into record?
    If yes, does it automatically pitch & tempo matching the loops?

    First Thoughts: To be honest in the video I dont see anywhere an intuitive and straightforward application, but maybe when I put my hands on it, maybe I will.

  • phobik

    Their approach on the dongle only requires you to have it plugged in at the moment of openning a project, you can then remove the donlge and still run forever and save running in demo mode. And therefore you can isntall it on any number of machines.

    Not 100% hassle-free, but and improvement. No midi out just seems wrong. I'll let them have the no vst for stability issues. Also 32 bbit synthesis and 64 bit mixing bus.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYE5gX7hN80

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  • Dano

    at $299.00 you can get an Mbox Mini with Pro Tools 8.

    They still charge for ProTools? I didn't think they could give that away nowadays.

  • Mezzurias

    I'm sold. I skipped the Reason 4 upgrade this time around because I had jumped ship for Logic 8. I have to say that Reason as a DAW would be awesome. Because of Reason I always the overwhelming urge to hit tab and cable things rather than using busses and and sends to get what I need. I think Reason is ingenious, imo. Record seems to extend that and I'm definitely going to get it when its released. Not happy abou the dongle though. I only have so many ports on my machine and this will take one up.

  • http://www.digitallofi.com Puffer

    Firefox just ate my way too long response, which I'm taking as the internet's way of telling me to shut the f' up.

    I'll just say this. I get the 'backlash'. While I wait to be impressed, I think semantics is a stupid marketing strategy. Virtual mixer? Check. Virtual instruments? Check? Internal routing? Check. Sequencing window with track lanes and wave forms? Indeed. In other words, a DAW. An improvement it may be, but let's not pretend it's something that it's not.

    There's a difference between evolutionary and revolutionary. Sometimes it is vast; sometimes very small. But perspective.

  • poopoo

    They should have just added an ADAT machine to the reason rack.

    IMHO, Reason is everything that is wrong with music software interface design. Does a word processor GUI look like a typewriter?

  • http://www.stepwisesound.com dave ahl

    Okay first off everyone needs to lay off Peter for covering Record.

    Obviously it has a ton of comments so there is a lot of interest in this product, for better or worse.

    Reason is useful to a lot of people. The lack of a recording as well as a decent audio sequencer (trying to avoid using the word "DAW") was holding back Reason.

    Propellerhead, in my mind, had two choices:

    1. make Reason software instruments into plugins that could more easily integrate into existing DAWs or

    2. make their own kind of DAW

    I don't understand why they didn't do the former instead of the later.

    Why not make their plugs more integrated (as AU, RTAS, VST, etc), let them play nicer with other plugins, let their synths work as soft synths like other plugins, remove the redundancy of using Reason's mixer inside your DAW's mixer, etc…

    Thinking about Reason as a ton of effects, plugins, instruments, samplers, etc that can integrate nicely into your existing DAW — hey that makes a ton of sense.

    Instead we have a limited DAW (that won't even let you use other plugins) in a sea of more mature DAWs.

    I'm sure the program itself will work great — I'm just not sure it's for me.

  • c.db.sn

    "They should have just added an ADAT machine to the reason rack.

    IMHO, Reason is everything that is wrong with music software interface design. Does a word processor GUI look like a typewriter?"

    but wouldn't a lot of people been less intimidated by word processors if it did look like a typewriter??? not everyone is comfortable with object oriented programming or sub menu after sub menu…

    Reason is a great jumping off point for a whole lot of people, people who are used to a very HW based studio, hence the GUI and the virtual patch cables, could propellerheads have trimmed the fat and made the same app with a slew of little boxes and bits of code? sure, but what entry level user is going to buy that???

    its not my bag baby, but that doesn't mean its not going to do its job well, or even sell well…

    i dont think any of Peter's posts (got bored, didnt read it all, too lazy) have mentioned that his app is going to replace yours or anyone else's DAW.

    so many people hating on an app that they havent even had a chance to properly demo…

    again, its not for me… but i think they will sell a TON of copies of Record.

  • c.db.sn

    "his app"…

    i meant to type "this app"

  • Damon

    It's utterly consistent with the Reason philosophy. More of this and not too much of that. Personally, I expect to love it, assuming the sound is there. And it does well cater to the beginner, which is only a problem if you are not. And Reason was never expected to be used as a complete track production tool, but has become that for many. I am not sure if I am let down or relieved by the fact it does not support plug ins. Probably relieved, as this will prevent me (or such as me) from overwhelming a project. Some would prefer to set their own limits, but Reason always set them better for me than I might have for myself. Again, a beginner premise, but probably quite beneficial even to the experienced artist. Overall, I am excited about Record.

  • DIM

    Peter Kirn WE IN THE CARIBBEAN ISLAND WOULD LIKE TO SAY THANKS FOR COVERING RECORD THE PAST FEW DAYS HAS BE FARCINATING.Its amazing to see what people are stil asking for in DAWS.This just proves ther is still a market for them.THANKS again for all the info you PROVIDED for us.

  • James

    At least make the pitch as elastic as the time aspect in the audio…if they're not providing MIDI out.

    At least…

  • http://makingsound.free.fr Cyril

    > Their approach on the dongle only requires you to have it plugged in at the moment of openning a project

    It's not interesting for 2 reason (ohoh)

    1°) If you unplug a midi controller to plug the dongle and start Record, then your midi controller will not be recognize by Record after that.

    2°) In a live situation, you can't plug & unplug the dongle as soon as you have to load a new project. It as to be seamless.

    There is no good reason to use a dongle.

  • http://www.myspace.com/tooltablist Mudo

    139 posts

    LOL!

    We are crazy!

  • http://www.myspace.com/elektrodouche mr. ed

    NO midi out, why oh why…

    how exactly are you supposed to "Record" your synths then,

    and on top of that a dongle.

    No thanks.

  • JonO

    They may have put some thought into this dongle thing, but I think not quite enough. Picture what happens in a live situation where you can't necessarily rely on having an Internet connection available. You're screwed. Reason is a great tool for live performance (esp. in conjunction with Live). So why kill their live performance market?

  • essex sound lab

    I hope that somebody reading this forum, with connections to Propellerhead, gives them the overwhelming feedback on MIDI Out.

    Without MIDI Out, the MIDI Sequencer feature is utterly useless in what is (supposedly) positioned as a stand-alone product.

  • Andrew

    @ JonYo (if you're still reading this many posts down) Yes, the Pods have CV in – there's a screenshot of the back of one in the original preview.

    I just want to say that I'm very excited about this indeed. Luckily I have not got the remotest interest in Midi out, or that much in pitch shifting within a particular application – it's the sort of thing you can easily do in another program and import. I am, however, very very excited about closer integration between my recording and my beloved Reason rack.

    Dongle or no dongle, I will be gladly handing over my cash for this at the very first opportunity.

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  • Harri

    For 100$ less, you get logic express, with at least the same amount of plugins, fx, samples etc. Plus it's extensible with external plugins, and it has none of that funny dongle/internet-needy business.

    I have already chosen – 1 year ago, actually, and I am happy to stay that way :-)

  • Steve

    @ people asking for VST and MIDI out:

    You all have legit reasons for wanting this, and I fully understand why you see it as a drawback. However, you should consider the potential of record combined with reason as a tool for creating music. It is not trying to be a DAW that will fit every one's need in every situation.

    Benifits from not having vst support and and MIDI out:

    Performance – you get an truly unbelievable amount of power out of record thanks to clever low level multi core programming that is far beyond vst standards.

    Work anywhere, colaborate with anyone – *everything* is stored in one file. Take that file to any computer at any location and it will sound and behave exactly the same. Internet verification (or ignition key) means that you do not even need to bring your computer along – just one file. Send the file over the internet and you do not need to go yourself :)

    You find yourself in a situation where you simply must have your vsts or external synths? Use rewire and the a host of your choice. If you want you can import them as audio files back to record (yes – you do want that mixer compression).

    You need to go to a mixing studio for a professional mix, and they are on a DAW system? Export everything to separate wav or aif files in two mouse clicks.

    Bottom line (in my humble opinion): if you can not get your music made with unlimited number of audio tracks, record's mixer with full dynamics and filters on every channel, top notch effects, reason synths, free tempo management and line6 amp models – then maybe you should not be making music…

  • tk3804

    We all use Reason and it is a closed program as far as its modules. Yet we all continue to use it and customize it to our needs. Record just lets us use these concepts with audio as well. So what if you can't use 3rd party plug-ins. Sometimes limiting our options forces us to be more creative. At the end of the day this is just a tool and there is no perfect tool. Its what you build with that tool that counts. How creative can we get with this specific set of tools? I guess I'll have to wait until I can actually check it out.

  • salamanderanagram

    "You find yourself in a situation where you simply must have your vsts or external synths? Use rewire and the a host of your choice. "

    yah, go buy an extra $500 DAW because they refuse to add some simple features?

    "Bottom line (in my humble opinion): if you can not get your music made with unlimited number of audio tracks, record’s mixer with full dynamics and filters on every channel, top notch effects, reason synths, free tempo management and line6 amp models – then maybe you should not be making music…"

    bottom line is if you can't write a proper freaking MIDI handler, maybe you shouldn't be writing music software? i know for a fact from experience that it's not hard. call me crazy, but i'm not that into shelling out hundreds of dollars for programs that don't live up to their potential because the developers don't feel like implementing standards that have been in use for 30 years. even more irritating is the whole "go out and spend another $500, we didn't feel like writing that extra 100 lines of code" mentality.

  • http://www.myspace.com/elektrodouche mr. ed

    Look I could maybe live with the dongle its just a pain. From the videos it sounds like the time stretching algos are very nice indeed, if the mixer lives up to its real world inspiration, and the channel dynamics are good enough then I'll live without the vsts too. All good stuff. However, having to go into another app just to record a synth line from my hardware really defeats the purpose of a program called "Record". Your only covering "live" musicians, guitarists, singers, etc. Personally I would have loved to play live with Record and have it control one or two hardware synths at the same time.

  • http://snapshotintime.blogspot.com wingo

    I was just watching one of the demo videos, and started to get a little annoyed by the forced marketing of this thing. He was touting the whole "64-point mix bus" thing really hard, and it just seemed like gimmick talk.

    So I started googling "64-point floating" and such, and interestingly enough, found an older CDM article where Robert Henke calls it just that – a gimmick: http://tinyurl.com/3clkda

    Anyway – I'm sure it's a well-designed product, as with past products… and I am totally biased, being a shameless Ableton devotee. But the whole marketing blast with lots of very obvious sort of 'talking points' and the big 'not a DAW' noise is a little tedious.

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    Well, I will say – sometimes developers get overexcited just as we know users do.

    I'd say the 64-bit mix bus thing is very much up in the air. I've heard some compelling people argue both side. It's time to do some real science here.

  • http://www.lasean.com lasean

    Two Questions:

    1) Can you import audio files in a Record session? I saw the bounce screen for exports, but nothing to bring them back in.

    2) I usually create multiple Pro Tools sessions when I'm mixing. The files are small, and it's easy to A/B your work. How would you create multiple versions of a mix in Record without duping all of the audio files bundled inside?

  • Jaime Munarriz

    @Steve :

    "maybe you should not be making music…"

    Yes, I've decided to start a new life, maybe work at a bank, stop this fancy techno lust…

    C'mon, there's not a unique way of working, sometimes musician need to use alternative workflows. You know, 303, inversed tape, distorting at the mixer, tape used for echo, autotune as an instrument, lofi, downsampling…

  • Jaime Munarriz

    500$ DAWs? Remember, you have Reaper, Usine, Ardour, EnergyXT, amazing programs with really low prize. They allow VSTs and any routing!

  • Steve

    @Jaime Munarriz:

    Yes, I was being somewhat of a biggot ;)

    Personally I find the props idea and thinking about this product (and music making) appealing as you get so much more by not having vst and midi out; in terms of performance, workflow, creativity, interactivity, portability and most of all – no techology hazzle. Sure, MIDI out is probably no biggie – but it does not fit into the concept of what record is.

    Looking in my archive I have many productions laying around from 2" tape in the early 90's to different sequencers and DAWs in the time up till today, using plug-ins and software instruments that are not around anymore. I even have som ADAT tapes :o

    Trying to access that material today is in almost all cases impossible. Now, with record history will not be repeating itself, thanks to no vst and no midi out!

  • essex sound lab

    @Steve:

    I don't understand the statement "MIDI out is probably no biggie – but it does not fit into the concept of what record is". Record has the ability to sequence MIDI events, so it's more than just an audio mixer and recorder. It supports MIDI sequencing. But it's limited to sending MIDI events only to Propellerhead's own sound modules. I'm sorry…what's the "concept" behind that?

    I'm afraid this is something that only Reason customers are likely to understand. How does this attract a broader audience to a new, supposedly stand-alone product?

  • Niall

    This is a load of rubbish.

  • Steve

    @ essex sound lab:

    (I realize this might sound backwards at first, but please pause for a moment, contemplate and refer to my previous 2 posts) By not allowing external gear or software plug-ins Record is:

    - allowing you to go anywere – just bring your file – and make music with anyone. You do not even have to bring your computer.

    - you will always be able to access your old songs – even 10 years from now when the PSU of your external MIDI gear has given up and spare parts are no longer available – because *everything* is contained in one file.

    And if you absolutely must have a special VST plug-in or external MIDI gear; have no fear – rewire is here! (and yes, there are some quite cheap hosts available as pointed out by Jaime Munarriz)

    Ah – what about line6 you say: if I USB-connect a POD and use a model from there – a model which I might not have access to in the future – then does not the Record concept fail? No, it does not. Because Record will still play the model, it just will not let you edit the model parameters.

    I am all for more code running inside Record as with line 6 – lets let the pheads know what stuff we would like!

  • salamanderanagram

    dead horse, meet my continued flogging.

    reason + record = $650.

    to me, spending that much money on something that can't speak midi is like paying for a word processor that won't open .txt files.

    how props doesn't understand the desire not to have 5 different programs at once is really infuriating.

    talking about "benefits" of missing key features is moronic.

    especially when you say it's all about performance. if i can write a MIDI handler that works okay for my purposes, surely props can too.

    oh, and i wonder how my performance fares when i have to open an entire DAW just for a freaking MIDI clock??! are you kidding? that's the dumbest thing ever.

  • essex sound lab

    @Steve:

    Sorry, I just don't buy either point. Record allows you to record external instruments, like guitars, using a fancy SSL-clone virtual desk. And then you have portability of what exactly…your mixing environment? And why are external audio devices somehow within the "concept" of Record, while external MIDI hardware is not? Makes no sense to me.

    And how do you propose to play back your Record project 10 years from now? Will the current Record file format outlive magnetic recording formats or something? What makes the Record format magically future-proof over any other fomat?

    So, external devices and software are fine from a Record standpoint if (a) they are audio only or (b) Propellorhead has a license for them. Hmmmm.

    I'm guessing I'm no longer in the Reason beta tester queue. :-)

  • salamanderanagram

    "By not allowing external gear or software plug-ins Record is:

    - allowing you to go anywere – just bring your file – and make music with anyone. You do not even have to bring your computer."

    umm… so there's no MIDI out because they were scared you wouldn't have the same synth in two different locales? please tell me that's not your logic.

    "- you will always be able to access your old songs – even 10 years from now when the PSU of your external MIDI gear has given up and spare parts are no longer available – because *everything* is contained in one file."

    leaving aside the fact that i have MIDI gear from the early 80s that still works 25 years later (more than 10, anyway)…

    since the concept of record is to RECORD things from my MIDI gear, i also fail to see what this has to do with anything?

    oh wait it doesn't.

  • Jim G.

    Peter,

    Thank you so much for this excellent and timely review on Record. I am very excited and I look forward to using Record in the very near future. The demos have a terrific sound quality to them, IMHO.

    The creative impulse, when it comes to us, is delicate and does not hang around long while we boot up a funny car of a software setup. A simple, straightforward approach to workflow is essential to people who write and create music for a living. Those who are technicians and tweakers (good for you) will always clamor for the next new tool or toy to play with, but the musical world belongs to the songwriter and composer, and Propellerheads understand this process. The Props have created exactly what they wanted to create in Record and they have misunderstood or missed nothing. If it fits you, it will be a superb tool for making music. If it doesn't have what you want, then it's not for you and you should just go away and go create some music on what you have. The last thing I wanted from Props was another Logic, Protools or Sonar.

    If you don't get it, then you just don't get it and that's OK. But, please quit your endless complaining and go do something creative with what you've got. Best of luck to you all.

  • Jaime Munarriz

    @Steve I also love the idea of self-contained projects. I know I cannot get any themes from my old albums, tape, atari, akai, or even old cubase version. Even now, my projects don't work between my 3 main computers, each one is kind of a different studio, different versions, different plugins…

    For thoso who need Midi Out (I have all my hardware getting dust), you can run any DAW by Rewire, trigger external modules from there, and then record it's sounds on Record. Easy, if you remember what was a project with SMPTE synch, sampler libraries, midi cables, a big mixer, effects… all written on paper!

    I love Reason because it is fast, and I always reach new ideas in a short time. I love plugins, but I sometimes spend long evenings just testing, installing, looking for… and I make no music.

  • meatshake

    I think Reason is great, it's solid and efficient. Record looks cool, and I'm sure will be a hit, I sort of wish they would have just added external MIDI sequencing and some "basic" audio to Reason, rather than re-invent the wheel (or workstation). While I understand locking out plug-ins, I don't see any benefit from omitting any MIDI out. For years I've wanted an easy way to sequence and record a few old analogs with my Reason tracks– PHead's make this task so difficult, that I end up exporting tracks and leaving Reason, to use another app to finish the job. I'd like to be able to stay within Reason sometimes, without having PT or Live open just to babysit Reason's Midi and Recording issues.

    Maybe in 2-3 years PHead's will make another product called ReMIDI or something to complete the Synth and Audio functions of Reason and Record.

  • Tuna Boy

    It's cool, no doubt. But it's a DAW. Get over yourselves PHeads. It's a proprietary DAW, but a DAW none-the-less.

    Know what I like? The robustness and reliability of it. PHeads rocks like Slash when it comes to stability and I'm sure this will be no exception. I can already tell Record is going to be my main sketch pad at the very least.

  • Steve

    First, could not agree with Jim G. moore.

    @ essex sound lab: "And why are external audio devices somehow within the “concept” of Record, while external MIDI hardware is not?"

    I fail to see why you can not record them all you want. But from Records point of view there is no point in MIDI-ing them as they will not fit into the concept of one file.

    "And how do you propose to play back your Record project 10 years from now? "

    Using Record ofcourse! Reason has been around for close to 10 years… Lets not go into discussing media formats. Please refer to my previous post.

    @ salamanderanagram: I guess MIDI out is kind of important to you. Personally I could not care less (about MIDI out – I naturally care a lot about you). I guess Record is not for you – you want a DAW.

  • johnny

    @Peter

    Peter when you think you'll write an in depth review for Record? I'm very anxious to read your full review and personal thoughts!

  • salamanderanagram

    @steve – what is annoying to me is that reason + record IS a DAW. except it doesn't have midi out. i don't think we should continue to let props get away with this phony "it's not a DAW" excuse. sorry, but it clearly is attempting to be a DAW, it's just sad that they can't finish their 90% done project, with the most simple and standardized method of communication known to music makers.

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    I think their point is they've decided they're not pleasing everyone. MIDI out is not as a big a deal technically as some things. But it could be video scoring, or plug-in support, or "I can't believe it doesn't — xxxxx" It's sort of this desire to please all of those things – which can be a good thing in software, no doubt – that I think has defined DAW as a category. I thought that telling Synthopia to remove the post describing it as a DAW was a little over the top, and doubly ironic as Ableton has tried to prove that it IS one. But I understand choosing not to do certain things.

    Certainly, there are LOTS of apps out there that do MIDI out and plug-in hosting – some quite good. That's why I'm not complaining. You don't *have* to use Record, period. ;)

  • essex sound lab

    @Peter Kirn:

    People seem to keep forgetting that there is a MIDI sequencer in Record, but that Propellerhead has chosen to only allow it to be used with Reason instruments. So MIDI sequencing seems to be within the bounds of the Record concept…just not allowing said sequencing to be used with anything but Propellerhead instruments.

    What's frustrating is that the simple addition of MIDI Out would support its use in my studio…and I'm clearly not alone. I don't WANT a full DAW. But if I need to fire up a full DAW just for the MIDI sequencer (again a capability that's *in* Record…just not in a way that can be used with actual MIDI devices!), well I might as well just use the full DAW for what Record *does* do. Which is a shame.

  • salamanderanagram

    "You don’t *have* to use Record, period."

    that's just the thing isn't it? if you have a DAW already, what do need another recorder for?

    i *love* using reason to make sound.

    i *hate* having to plug it into another piece of software to accomplish simple tasks.

    given that reason + record = $650(IE about what i would want spend on a DAW), is asking more MIDI connectivity really so much?

    and as essex pointed out, this really is a case of crippling the software, the functionality is there, they just choose not to use it and hide behind vague "performance issues" or other such nonsense.

  • Pingback: Propellerhead “Record” Review: Reason + audio | Our Rising Sound

  • johnny

    Suppose that we have made a song in Reason. Can this song open entirely in Record? Are we’ll be able to see the hole arrangement and instruments of the song inside Record?

  • johnny

    Suppose that we have made a song in Reason. Can this song open entirely in Record? Are we’ll be able to see the whole arrangement and instruments of the song inside Record?

  • Steve

    Yes :)

  • Andrew

    It sounds like if you already have Reason, you get all of Reason's capabilities when you use Record. This of course raises the question of why they couldn't just make this as an upgrade to Reason.

  • Jim G.

    Guys,

    It IS an upgrade to Reason. A $150 upgrade so you can record audio along with Reason, Rewire-free. Or did you think it should BE free? Maybe some rackmount device that records a single stereo pair? Listen, I believe that the Propellerheads have a way of doing things that I really like, similiar to how I like the way Apple does things. I like their style, even if I don't like every single little thing they do. So, I'm going to go with what the Props have done with Record because I LIKE how they do it. Period. You complaining guys sound like you've ALREADY got a way of doing the things you're griping that Record doesn't have in your present studio. If you just want something that you already have, why waste all this space with comments about MIDI out? You mean to say that you DON'T have a way to send MIDI out with your present setup? It's NOT there and never has been for Reason. It's not the Prop's way of doing things (just like no VSTi support), so either like it, use it or get out of the way. This blog should be a having a discussion about audio, not MIDI in, out or otherwise.

    For a registered Reason user, Record is an absolute no-brainer. The real, registered Reason owners are the ones rejoicing at getting 192 kHz, SSL emulation, unequalled time-stretching, automatic track tuning (does anyone else offer that?), and the ability to use those sweet RV7000 reverbs and delays on audio tracks, just to mention a few things. Oh yeah, and don't forget a CPU-load that will give your present computer extra years of usefulness. All this and more for $150? As one reviewer said "that amounts to about a zillion in sales from the Reason faithful".

    I collaborate with other musicians who use software I don't have. Some are a few blocks from my house, some are in Austin, some live in Finland. The ability to easily export stems is a valuable tool I will use frequently. As will be the ability to tweak tempos a few BPM faster or slower. I also teach students and I can use the time-stretch to cut songs they're learning into 30%, 50%, and 75% tempos so they can learn them quicker. No, it's not new, but, judging by what I've heard from the Producer's Forum in LA video, it's the absolute best I've ever heard.

    I think the fact that Record only functions as a Rewire client, not master, says volumes about the thought that's been put into designing Record. You can now send your whole Record package to a Protools studio and they simply rewire it in. With all the Reason instruments, effects, etc right along with it. That means I can send my entire project to my friend in Austin and he can simply splice it into his Protools rig and start wialing on the guitar part in no time. This is something new that no one else does, as far as I know. It's even more significant when we consider that we're talking about combined audio/MIDI projects. No more rendering of MIDI files into audio! This is an integration into Protools that we haven't seen before, at least not this completely. When Propellerheads heard people wanted MIDI out, they went all the way. You can literally take your MIDI "out" to whatever DAW you want to now. Sorry, I couldn't resist the pun.

    I don't know who was in the room at the Musician's Institute during the video demo of Record, but you could hear them in the background saying "wow" and "YES!", and then they actually APPLAUDED when they did the time-stretch on a female vocal! I guess I'm easily impressed, 'cause I WAS impressed by that.

    Jim G.

  • Andrew

    @salamanderanagram

    "if you have a DAW already, what do need another recorder for?

    i *love* using reason to make sound.

    i *hate* having to plug it into another piece of software to accomplish simple tasks."

    I think you've answered your own question there. For those Reason users who want to be able to record and who don't care about midi out, Record will do this without the need for another piece of software.

    It's certainly a win for me.

  • Andrw

    this program looks great

    i can understand the dongle,

    about time i bought a legit copy anyway (being honest)

    and the demo sounds like it will be generous

    i find myself many times more productive when i write a track in reason than in cubase sx

    and i also love the portability, stability and lower processor usage that this program offers.

    however, in the past ive felt limited by it

    all of my music is instrumental, partly because i dont know what to say or the best way to say it, also because to just add a vocal line or experiment to a reason track is an effort and breaks my workflow

    as a keyboard/synth player, i have have some high quality synths that i really enjoy many of the patches for, some are presets some are ones ive made from scratch or other presets.

    whatever the reason, they sound ace.

    recording in another program then loading into a sampler is a pain.

    especially as i like to play with tempos after starting a song.

    so it just never gets done.

    ive tried playing around with a few DAWs, havnt found another one that i feel as comfortable and creative with.

    any tracks i try producing with cubase end up being mediocre, i think its because i spend more time trying to integrate too many things, that i dont end up creating interesting music.

    rewiring cubase with reason messes with my workflow, i dont really like it, maybe i shouldve spent more time with it, but ive grown to disike cubase a fair bit.

    i love using the reason sequencer, version4 made it really quite cool.

    i dont like having my reason stuff in one sequencer and my hardware/softsynths in another.

    anyways, reason with audio tracks sounds close to what ive been after.

    not having a midi out is inconvienient for me.

    but record

    i'll also recommend it to my guitar playing/drumming/singing/songwriting brother who has not understood any DAWs i've showed him and cant ever rtfm.

    at the moment he records to an older yamaha harddisk recorder but i could see the benefits to editing his work on a computer.

    this program looks great

    i can understand the dongle,

    about time i bought a legit copy anyway (being honest)

    I love working within the reason sequencer, and havnt found another DAW that I can run, that I’ve quite gelled with.

    juggling 2 sequencers (eg. Cubase sx3 and Reason) together, isn’t ideal for me, i find cubase messes with my workflow, too many clicks to do simple things.

    Loading in audio sections into a sampler takes too much stuffing around, and gets wonky if I desire to change the tempo.

    Even tho Record unfortunately cant sequence my external hardware

    (I understand the concept and why they don’t allow it, but still a midiOut rack device would be great for me)

    The new mixer looks great, that remix 14:2 I find limiting, and once you use up the channels and require a second one… things start getting pretty messy and the workflow can suffer. Also scrolling to the top of the rack all the time requires a bit more effort, from the video it appears the ssl is on its own window, I approve.

    At least the main thing for me is:

    audio stuff that’s sequenced and recorded while in rewire mode, can be dropped into reason in an easy and practical way.

    I can then finish the project in Record and not have to look at the midi program again.

    wanting to expand what i'm doing

    i'd started looking again at other programs, including trying to save for a mac+logic..

    I didn’t expect this, but as a Reason user who wants to expand to using more audio in their work, this is huge

    i'm likely to buy this

  • Andrw

    i'll also recommend it to my guitar playing/drumming/singing/songwriting brother who has not understood any DAWs i've showed him and cant ever rtfm.

    at the moment he records to an older yamaha harddisk recorder but i could see the benefits to editing his work on a computer.

    this might be the program for him.

  • essex sound lab

    @Andrw: Would your brother care (or even notice) if Record also had MIDI Out? I'm sure there are features of Reason that he may readily ignore if his goal is simple multi-track recording.

    @Everyone: I'm no Reason expert, but wouldn't an ultra-simple solution to the MIDI problem be a MIDI Out device that can be placed in the rack? If you need it, you use it. If you don't, you ignore it. There'd be an extra preferences pane for setting up MIDI interfaces (likely similar to, but simpler than, the pane that must be there for audio interfaces). Again, could be pretty easily ignored by people with no MIDI hardware.

    For people worried about project portability, I have two responses:

    1. Projects will be tied to the number of audio I/O channels present in the system anyway, so won't be 100% portable.

    2. It would seem ultra-trivial to map MIDI tracks to another Reason device if the external hardware wasn't present (or just mute those tracks!).

    This really seems like a no-brainer to me.

  • salamanderanagram

    "This blog should be a having a discussion about audio, not MIDI in, out or otherwise."

    oh, i'm sorry is this your blog? no? then i guess i'll go on talking about whatever i like until peter asks me to stop.

    oh and thanks for implying i don't own a registered version of reason. actually i go to school and get all of that crap dirt cheap.

    anyway, you're right, i am complaining about the lack of something that i can already do elsewhere in my setup. it's a pretty simple concept dude, implementing midi should literally take one prop programmer one day to finish… i like to buy things that can communicated with other things, you intentionally cripple your software, i intentionally don't buy it…

    go figure.

  • salamanderanagram

    i'm getting the impression that i could just use the demo version of record anyway if i wanted to and then just export the sound when i'm done with a session or just leave it open for a few days until i'm done with a project. maybe i'm wrong about that but that's how it seems.

  • illonexxx

    @Everyone saying Midi-Out will break project portability:

    Reason files already can break project portability. You can go to Reasonstation.net right now and download plenty of users reason files/tracks. If they used a refill that you do not have guess what happens?!?! The song plays without the sounds used in those refills.

    This concept that midi-out somehow breaks whats already in reason is crazy.

    If the songs author wants you to hear his personal refill sounds he has to lock the reason file and the refill sounds will become part of the file.

    What having no midi-out does is prevent you from 'locking' the file. You now aren't able to sequence the external midi-devices and then 'record'/bounce them to the file; which, amusingly, would make the file portable.

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    Wow, this is still raging.

    MIDI is fair game for discussion on this site. Not sure where that came from. ;)

    No, MIDI doesn't "break portability" – kind of the point of MIDI, yes?

    Look, I think they just decided not to work on it. It is NOT as simple as a one day task, because in my experience, the development process for these apps is pretty painstaking for any chance, in terms of build, QA. Sure, YOU could write a little app that does MIDI in a day — but it's not part of a giant code base, it doesn't have all the UI functional implications it would here, etc.

    COULD they do it? Sure. So for whatever reason, they didn't. There's quite a lot they decided not to do, so I think you have to look at that whole list. If you want any of that stuff, there are lots of other software choices out there, so no reason to remain ranting about Propellerhead. Record is clearly not One Tool for All People — and you may have a point, so maybe MIDI out will show up in 1.1.

  • anigbrowl

    It probably does take more than a day to implement MIDI in something like this, but then it's not like they don't have the resources.

    As someone pointed out, you'll still be able to play your keyboard and record that. and many keyboards or midi gear have a step sequencer and arpeggiators, sure. but it's a pain in the ass if you wanted to record your keyboard and be in sync with the BPM of your project, to use LFOs and things like that. A pity.

  • KorKy

    THIS IS AWSOME BUT! Can you still not use a VST with reason? I finally made the step from FL to Reason like 3 months ago, however I only stayed in reason for 2 months due to the fact you cant use VST's or sound banks/kits/we you wanna call them only reason specific refills. I have a mega collection of .wav samples and a awsome collection of VSTs including NI Komplete which I refuse to let go to waiste, especially after purchasing an axiom 49. The axiom 49 is the only reason i even stayed in reason longer then a day, it auto mapped almost 100% of diff parameters to diff controls (ie. sliders, knobs, sample pads etc.) and that I loved since I dont know how to MIDI map all that well. Anyways I was getting bored with just the synths and being forced to use redrum when I have battery which I know is 1000x better at least from what I can tell. So Propellerheads thank you but no thank you at least not yet not until you hit the VST compatibility or w/e then I will use nothing but reason

  • Johnny

    I'm a beta3 tester of Record. Although I love Reason from the start and using it for many years I found Record quite sluggish! The GUI is too heavy! Rack mixer and sequencer takes valuable space, F5, F6, F7 just couldn't work for me.

    I'm feeling that this application will let down many people who are waiting like crazy its final release.

  • Justcosmic1

    Having read many of the above comments, there's one question on my mind regarding why reason and record are both "closed" formats. I seem to remember speaking with a friend of mine who uses reason a lot for live use, and he suggested that there were certain "corners cut" in the coding in order for it to run so stable and so quick on relatively slow machines. The phrase that's on my mind is "data compression", and I am wondering if that is going on somewhere in the coding, and that they "can't" do some of these things being requested because of it?

    Obviously they also wouldn't be too keen to say it openly either, as it doesn't bode too well for sonic excellence…

    I would be very interested to hear any reliable feedback on this.

    We certainly do live in interesting times, with a huge choice of music software now; and it seems that the big boys are getting some new competition from the likes of programs like reaper and the like. Plus which there's another new DAW from Presonus (Studio One) coming out in august too…

    …it will be very interesting to see how this thing plays out…

    …It would be great if some of the negatives could be dealt with…especially the dongle thing…it really is the way backwards not forwards. Putting out a great product and inspiring customer loyalty is the best copy protection policy IMHO.

    …but back to my main point/question…does anyone know what's really going on "under the hood"??? data compression anyone???

  • Jaime Munarriz

    Hi, I found this at the Reaper's forum:

    Good morning to anyone up and interested. I am currently using Record Rewired to Steinberg's vstack. My setup consists of two pc's, one for recording,(Reaper), and one as an instrument,ie vsti's vst effects etc. I find that used this way, I can trigger midi instruments from reaper (or whatever) through vstack, into record, add vst effects and record the output via hardware mixer into reaper on my other pc. Sounds like a complicated setup yes?….nah, its a little involved but boy i like how Record is setup. I read all the posts about how its not a DAW, has no vst support yadda yadda, but instead of bashing this new app, i found a way to work around this limitation.

    back when my friends and I only had drum machines and turntables, four track cassette recorders, we had to mcguyver alot of shit to make a beat, and for me,even though it took some brainstorming , i found a way to use this app and still have full use of my vst's/vsti's. If anyone out there is interested in trying this, get steinberg's vstack, and Propellerhead's Record. Oh , its not out yet, so dont ask how/where I got it…………..

  • Truth Teller

    Logic Express 8 >>>> ReCord

    Hell, in some aspects GarageBand >> ReCord

    I don't think PH understand the market they're going for. Is this for songwriters, Reason Users, or other DAW users? You can't say "we've made it simple for songwriters" and then put a full SSL board in there. Because I don't know many songwriters that can or want to know how to mix on an SSL board. And no plug-ins? Isn't it cocky to assume that the only sounds I'll need are the ones you decide to ship with? Yes, yes, I can use outboard hardware, but if I already have a software equivalent that I like, why would you go to lengths to PREVENT me from using it? Add on top of that the draconian copy protection and this is a product in search of a market.

  • Andrew

    @ Truth Teller: 'if I already have a spftware equivalent that I like, why would you go to lengths to PREVENT me from using it?'

    That's a ridiculous statement if I ever heard one. You make it sound as if VSTi compatibility is something that naturally occurs in software and Propellerhead have put time and effort into making sure that it's disabled in Record. Utter nonsense.

    And it's also worth noting that Propellerhead have quite clearly defined their market as songwriters. Therefore they have put much effort into making it as quick and simple to start this up and start recording with as little effort as possible. Whilst I can, to some extent, see where you're coming from with the whole mixing desk thing, the fact is that you don't have to know how to use a mixing desk to use the software. You can simply get your sounds down (adjusting the tempo on the fly, which is a seriously useful feature), adjust your levels and you're done. Having said that, most songwriters will probably want to play with their sound further, at which point they can, if they want, turn to the other sections of the mixing desk (which aren't necessarily even visible during normal use) and start to learn what else they can do. A mixing board isn't rocket science, I imagine that most people who have the slightest inclination to adjust their sound will be able to work it out pretty quickly.

  • qwerty

    Sorry. I know Reason is a great piece of software, but I deeply dislke Record… I mean Why not put the record thing inside record? Why not VSTi support? Why not midi out? Why put a complex SSL board if Record is for "songwriters"? Maybe the closed thing works fine to PH with Reason, but I think this not work again.

  • roly

    I love Reason, and hate rewiring in order to add audio to my Reason songs. I will be buying this as soon as it comes out.

    When I was growing up even 4-track cassette recorders were prohibitively expensive. We used to record on a garage-sale reel-to-reel with cheap mics and a Casio VL-Tone, flipping between tracks 1/3 and 2/4 to overdub as many times as we could get away with. Nowadays you whiners want your gear to do everything but make your music for you, and still I haven't noticed that music has gotten any better. You don't know how good you have it. I'll be half of you use cracked software anyway — maybe that accounts for all the complaints about the dongle.

  • roly

    Hey, sorry about the intemperate post above. I don't want to put bad vibes out into the world, nor accuse anyone of anything, and you all have the right to critique anything you want. For my purposes, Record looks to be great, the price is right, there are some cool features (time stretching and a console with built in EQ "knobs" etc. on every channel), and I was very excited to hear about it. Peace.

  • qwerty

    @roly: No problem. =) (By the way… A friend who plays rock take a look at Record and really likes it… Maybe I was wrong, but Record is not for me)

  • Shot For Cripp;ing R

    TO Everyone:

    Complaining when something great is improved? Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

    The simple fact is VSTs SUCK.

  • Tim

    r

  • Tim

    I can easily see a lot of home engineers buying

    this for the 9000K console

  • Stephan

    As a Live user (still on 7), there are three essential features that will determine the viability of this product for someone like me:

    1. Sound Quality; and

    2. Re sampling ease of use.

    3. Ability to take audio crated in Live (or any other host) into Record

    Sound quality is an obvious consideration. I am interested to hear the SSL emulation. I am more interested, howevever by their fluid approach to audio. If this allows me to take my non-midi analogs and achieve tempo synchronization with acceptable sound quality, I may purchase simply for that reason. Currently, time-stretching options available don't really cut it for me.

    Resampling is another big consideration. I make extensive use of the easy way Live handles resampling and importing into it's native samplers and drum plugs. If something similar is possible with Record and Reason, then Reason just became really interesting for me.

    Finally, I may be in the minority of users who actually wanted to be able to route audio from Live into Record. On a Mac, I suppose I can always do this with the IAC bus, but ReWire would have made it a more elegant procedure.

    All in all, looks good for what it is.

  • http://soundsdefygravity.wordpress.com/ mikenuvo

    @ essex sound lab – not all of us want reason to BE Logic. I like reason to be limited specifically because it pushes me to be creative in new ways. I have always felt that creativity is fostered best with limitations. Just my 2cents. I believe in the product and will buy this.

  • cytrek

    screw ableton, reason and all other daws out there. im designing the most powerful software that will destroy everything. just wait people.

  • Annatar

    I have a microKorg. Can I use some sounds from that keyboard in my recordings using Reason 4 or Record???

    I have to record them as audio if I understand right???

  • Rick SAxby

    This looks freakin bad! I got reason 1.0 the first week it came out back it 2000. I love this software and I never thought I'd see the day were you can just turn on reason, be making a beat, record guitar put reason effects on it, record vocals put reason effects on it or any thing you want without it being a pain in the butt! Now I can just get down to making music and be inspired instead of feeling like I'm working. And it's got rewire so I can still use my UA plugs when I want!

  • Roxy

    salamanderanagram I think you are talking out your ass. Sounds like you only tinker with pirated software. How about you post link to even one song you've mixed? Let's hear what you can do. For those of us that have spent decades using real hardware, Reason is magic. Let's hear you talk about the stability (or the lack thereof) of so many of the DAWs you pirate. I've never seen Reason crash, and that's because they know how to program, QA, & distribute. I hear you say you purchase academic software, so when do you graduate high school? Prove me wrong. Post a link and show us what you can do.

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  • Arkster!

    Just get yourself Logic it owns everything else. This program just looks annoying.

  • Miquel

    I'm really loving this. I've used Cubase, Pro Tools and all the plug-ins imaginable for a long time. Nearly every time I opened my DAW for a session, I wished Reason could record audio to were I could edit everything in one program WITHOUT having to assign every path, device, controller, etc. to mulitiple programs.

    Most all of the rack effects in Reason sound as good as the VST's or Pro Tools plug-in's anyway. I think this program will be HUGE and is EXACTLY what I've wanted.

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  • djlang

    C'mon guys! This is a ridiculous price for a piece of kit that really should have been part of Reason for a long time! Make it £50 and I'l possibly buy it.

  • http://www.upliftedproductions.com Beatmaker E.I.

    I'm loving it! Record is the future of DAW's.

    You must remember this is only version 1.0 and you negative airheads are already bashing it.

    Why not give it a chance and see what develops.

    I've been an diehard Pro Tools user forever, but Props has got a winner here! Be open to something new Digidesign can't always be on top forever. Stop hating and except the fact that Record is just another great way to make your music.

  • http://bassreaktor@hotmail.com Bass Reactor – The M

    Unfortunatley this is simply a bridging product enabling Propellerhead to obtain an alternate revenue stream whilst avoiding the real issues and shortfalls of the current Reason software. All of the above features could be incorporated into Reason 5 with additional features not added in Record, implemented. I for one would like to see a more comprehensive mixing deck with more effect controls per channel rather than the laborious piggy backing of 1 mixing deck to another. This would be relevant for use in Redrum for example which at present is limited in terms of splitting the signal and effects of each Redrum instrument i.e snare, bass,hit hat etc, etc.This in turn would give muscicians the faith and belief that the Reason series is worth the financial investment rather than seeing a revamped product suffering the same fate as the wave of Windows releases over the last few years…gimmicking the product and it's real relevance to what it is supposed to do in the first place. Liking Reason or Record is one thing…taking the liberty of muscicians using these software for granted and expecting returns on each release is another.Also…Propellerhead…upgrade the GUI please so the software displays better…You've kept to the same old look for ages now. evryone else seem to have moved forward by miles !

    Bass Reaktor

  • chiz

    Record is going to be awesome, all except for the cost… I'll probably illegally download it though, so then its well worth it! Can't wait.

  • Santi

    I will continue with Logic audio.

  • http://www.londonhuayu.co.uk fubidou

    I love the look of record, and the fact that finally we get to use all our reason gear to record with. What took them so long?

    What I would like to know is some suggestions for hardware interfaces which I can use with it. Especially for live recording for several mics. I have an Alesis Multimix firewire – would that work with it? (ie could I make the faders on the multimix control different channels?) What other hardware options are available/recommended?

  • d

    the time stretching feature look pretty sweet. as a musician who likes laying down guitars/keyboards first, i've been waiting for some recording software that would let me easily tweak the tempo after without losing sound quality. downloading demo to try out as i'm typing this. pretty excited.

  • sunahura

    Why are so many people complaining about something that's so great, do you know what an ssl board is?, there aint nothing touching it, protools can't touch it, and forget plugins, every plug-in was trying sound like an ssl board, DUH!, propellerhead is a company that makes stable platforms, so bye bye plug ins, I got plenty. With a pro high definition sound card, you might have a reason to get a record deal. SSL is what make records sound like records and coupled with resons engine, this thing got to be killer.

  • mikey

    I don't have a DAW, I just built a jampad, I have reason 2.5

    I paid $150 and got upgraded to reason 4.0 PLUS got Record….

    I don't care about other plug ins as I have none

    this is a great deal and very powerful for me

    I'm stoked!

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  • T

    Had to have it. Logic is nice, but the learning curve is steep. I've had it a while and I'm still learning it. Being an Old School Analog Guy, this thing is just what I was looking for. Looks and acts just like a real studio, right down to buttons and wires! Gotta love it. It took long enough to learn recording the old way. No relearning here.

  • J

    LOL @ sunahura… your right SSL is the ish. But Record can't touch it either. I would love to hear an A/B comparison of this to the SSL plugs from waves. Lets not get carried away. This software is not the PT/Logic/SSL4000(waves vst) killer that you are implying it is…

  • faisal k aka ratiug

    ppl plz stop arguing record is simply for players and who wants to plug in mess around with effects and record not for moby wanna beeeee s helllooooo thats why propellerheads is calling it simply record,i ve used them all u name it cubase, nuendo, protools le reaper DP logic and all the vst and vsti s u can think off since 96 im recording on computers and a/v is what i do fr living and any music geek is welcome to challenge me on the knowledge data base frm a sofware creating a true headroom to digital sqeeks, since i live in pakistan and piracy is like paris hiltons sex tape :) i can get anything i dont even have to make an effort to find a torrent and download there are actually professionals frm whom u can get anything 1 dvd 500 pak rupees like 6 to 7$ so plz i doubt it if anyone has used more softwares living in the west but record made me think to buy it cause i felt i should own it althogh i ve the reason 4 and all refills already but record changed it all and im not saying because it cannot be cracked pplz PPLRHDZ dont mind it but some **** will be on it somewhere in the world as we speak and sooon it will be all over torrents sometime i think to make piracy almost eliminate the pricing of these products shld be so low tht i would think hey lets buy it what the heck i mean comeon i read this research where its mentioned that every copy sold there are as many as 50 copies pirated so helllo just think and sell in large numbers i meant u guys spent on research and all but after that its a a copy to copy on a disk …anyway the sad part it i cant even buy it as i live in pakistan and its not available here and the dhl alone will cost me 108 ridiculas dollars plus the price so i guess i just hv to wait before somebody cracks it , but ppl if u want to the next beatles to hendrix to vangelis for that matter record will help u get that natural stimulated adrilanin rush while ur making ur music belive me i use to get that with my guitar an amp and a tascam 4 track tape

    shut up

    record will rule thank u propellersheads for making the art of making music artistic again

    faisal k aka ratiug reyalp

  • http://NA Virtualize_ME

    Just purchase a copy, virtualize the app and the environment it is running in, or just virtual the environment once the dongle is installed! It may get a little annoying having to run the virtualized application before you run RECORD, but you will have a full blown, working copy.

  • Brian

    I have the same question as Annatar:

    I have a microKorg. Can I use some sounds from that keyboard in my recordings using Reason 4 or Record???

    I have to record them as audio if I understand right???

  • Roxy

    SANTI – I guess you need to come to this site and bitch because you regret spending so much time and money on Logic Pro. How about you just head on over to http://discussions.apple.com where some other wax head may be interested in your tripe.

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  • MUDI

    Bought Record about two months ago, and so far over Pro-Tools and Cakewalk this is easy for anyone to set up and get right in the software. It sounds clear no getting lost trying to assign audio cards this that and the other. I understand that there are no Plug-in's "yet" Reason has left room to add more rack mounts more synth style modulars and effects. If you understand Reason you will get this! If you are a MAC Pro-tools junkie forget it. This is straight forward-start your recording now. I can't tell you how many times I have played with bands and the majority of the time is dicking around with the sound-cards for Pro-tools and Sonar, this is annoying as hell. As far as the Donggle Dingle key that is good, it keep people from stealing the software. I can't tell you how many people I know have hacked a copy of Reason. So good for propellerhead, I recomend this for people who don't have to rely on dumming up their sound with plug-ins. If your a true synth or keyboard player you will understand that any sound can be achieved in Reason if you know what you are doing. Now all you auto tune hacks might as well stay with your Pro-tools cause I don't see any plug-ins for this in the near future.

  • Plyci

    First off, I agree with the last post by MUDI!

    Having had a few days with record now I can safely say its a lovely, hassle free environment to work in. I use many different pieces of software and plugins to write my music, and I believe its important to have a variety of work environments to keep your musical ideas fresh and interesting. I use Logic pro, Live, metasynth and reason all at once on occasions or separately on others, what record has given me is a new playground to put down creative ideas quickly, hell I bounced out audio from logic just to mix down in the record mixer and its just so fluid and sounds great. Like peter has said many times in these comments, variety and choice is a good thing, and as for the Dongle…i have a usb Port in my mac keyboard i almost never use, its no biggy! I also work on a laptop when Im away and a dongle just makes things easier with authorisation. I understand peoples gripes with usb space but the internet authorisation to me seems ok and fair, like many have said; reason is a heavily pirated software and it does effect Prop. There losing money which not only limits them to what they can put out but also the development of pre-existing software, if your moaning about lack of support for reason and questioning if there will be any support for it now that record has come along: PAY FOR IT and prop may invest money and time to make it even better!

  • pickupok

    I've tried the demo for a few days, just to check it out, and it feels like… like walking around in a recording studio in a burka… You can only see a small rectangle and have to constantly move around to see where things are, even if they're right next to you. No good. Terribly claustrophobic.

    From the philosophical point of view I just can't see the point in using software to reproduce the burden of hardware.

  • kakunda

    Need Crackers pleaseeeee to make emulator key ignition thanks

  • hue

    pickupok said-"I’ve tried the demo for a few days, just to check it out, and it feels like… like walking around in a recording studio in a burka…"

    Classic. That made me laugh. Also very true. I beta tested Rec*** and it's cumbersome. Sure getting recording is easy but when you want to start editing or adding effects? Time to whip out the manual.

    Most DAWs have a workflow similar to a mixer. Auxiliary sends, inserts, busses. If any of that is a part of record it's a disjointed part of the menu system. Yes record has menus too but they are built into the racks.

    I suppose if you're a die hard reason user great but if you've spent any time with a console and patchbay, it's like confining your view of the console to a 4 inch square lcd or as pickupok called it "walking around in a recording studio in a burka".

  • Phil

    WOW NO MIDI OUTPUT WOWWW WHY DID I BUY THIS. I am very disappointed as a strong Reason user.

  • Phil

    I specifically bought Record because I liked the Reason interface. Using my synth and workstation was my pain purpose of getting this and guess what, I can't do much without midi output. Really Propellerhead?? Really??? Rage?? Don't buy this trash.