Comments on: Video: Novation Automap for iPhone, with Ableton Live

By: runagate

runagate — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:00:37 +0000

And lest I forget not everyone already knows about this little gem:

http://opensoundcontrol.org/implementation/oscvstbridge

which is also freeware by Jason Hector

By: runagate

runagate — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:52:40 +0000

@Peter

I’d like to emphasize that Usine *does* support
Open Sound Control:

http://www.sensomusic.com/wiki/doku.php?id=manual:guide:osc&s=open&s=sound&s=control

Which, being that it comes in a free version both as a standalone and a VST plug-in, means that it’ll give anyone access to OSC on Windows at least.

Due to the very simple reason that I use Usine in the first place:

pretty much any kind of data can be transformed on the fly and controlled by a GUI that you patch yourself and don’t have to wonder what’s going on under the hood when you perform.

Course, Usine is a live-oriented application so that’s no help to the standard compositional or mixing DAW type applications.

By: ST8

ST8 — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 06:11:25 +0000

I’ve been working fairly extensively trying to get the LiveAPI working properly on mac (turns it this does in fact work) and windows under Live 8 for use with a arduinome and am almost there. The main problem with it is that you are still limited to 100-60ms updates. Clearly the APC can communicate quicker than that, so there must be some hidden functions in the LiveAPI that APC40 utilizes.

http://post.monome.org/comments.php?DiscussionID=4607

I’m thinking a generic osc ableton midi remote script for the iphone to play with say TouchOSC would be pretty useful. Not so up on my iphone app development though :)

By: Peter Kirn

Peter Kirn — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 10:05:16 +0000

@CNek: Right, but isn’t that interesting? The APC works basically via four bank select triggers. Ableton could have exposed those bank select triggers to other hardware, but chose not to. It’s only four bank selects. The one wrinkle would be, they’d have to determine the x and y range of whatever hardware you’re using, so that’s a little trickier, but still not impossible — in fact, there’s already a template for the padKONTROL, so they could have done that in a 4 x 4 layout AND it’d be velocity sensitive which the APC is not. Or you could add a preference to the MIDI Control section that allows you to determine the default size of the clip grid. Heck, the APC is the only controller I own that doesn’t let me remap MIDI assignments. On the rest of my gear, I could simply send the note values the APC is.

But, of course, the APC40 is the only hardware that fixes that – not because the APC40 is the only hardware with the solution, but because it’s the only hardware Live’s software *allows*.

By: CNek

CNek — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 09:48:31 +0000

Basically MIDI sucks :
127 steps (so hearable steps when doing a frequency cut off adjustement for example)
And Live is crippled because you can’t assign a huge MIDI mapping for a megaset.
That’s why I bought an APC, no clips assignements limitation.

Also I use a lot of dummy clip in addition to regular ones.

I was stuck with my PadKontrol + Farmpad have to count each little lasting CC or note…

Fortunately Chain selector can add a level of abstraction but AFTER clip launching.

By: Peter Kirn

Peter Kirn — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 08:25:18 +0000

@james: No, I’ve been told explicitly that there will not be a free Max for Live runtime. You’ll need to buy it to run patches. And that’s my point — that means it can’t be a solution for things like this, or you splinter to the user base, not to mention even if you do own M4L it’s not as elegant as having something work with the Live interface.

@runagate:
1. Some of the OSC originators I think will try to tell you it’s not even conceptually linked to MIDI. But … yes.

2. Easy – none. No DAWs support OSC. (Actually, I’m not sure this will last for long – I think Paul is working on OSC for Ardour 3.0?)

Interestingly, now basically every major new-generation visual app DOES.

The thing is, I think manufacturers are hearing all kinds of user complaints, so it’s easy for OSC to get lost. And they claim it’s just the hypergeeks who might want it.

I think what’s important, though, is that when implemented right OSC can be far easier than MIDI not only for a beginner but someone used to MIDI …and you can still run MIDI over OSC if you want to.

So, thanks for this, keep the ideas coming – definitely will be working on documenting this and this is really a helpful discussion as I think about that!

By: james

james — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 06:40:12 +0000

it was my understanding that you pay for max4live to edit your patches or “plugins”

once created any user can use these in their stock version of live 8?

By: runagate

runagate — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 00:53:11 +0000

If you make an OSC tutorial please include the following info:

1) it’s a network protocol and an update of the basic idea of the now ancient midi protocol

2) a list of hosts that already support OSC

I’ll add my favorite, Sensomusic’s Usine, to that list.

Usine and OSC both have prohibitive learning curves for people not already dedicated to these kinds of complex tools.

When will *even one* of the big companies, hardware or software, get some sort of clue?

Do they not also have access to user forums and blogs like we do? I remain baffled.

By: vanceg

vanceg — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:52:58 +0000

And YES – Ableton’s MIDI control does need a feature update/expansion!

By: vanceg

vanceg — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:51:25 +0000

Thanks Bjorn. Yes, the Arduino communits is, indeed, an option. However, I’m really not interested in spending the time and effort that it would take to lean and deal with Python and a Live API, nor to deal with the level of effort that it takes to make an Arduino board work well. Not that any of that is VERY difficult, and I am VERY happy that there are folks out there interested enough in spending their time on it. Go cats go!
I don’t feel like I’m “lazy” for not wanting to put THAT much work into designing a controller. My needs are just too modest, and my music making time too valuable/rare to want to dive THAT deep into the DIY world.
I’m very happy with the “Off the shelf DIY Kit” level like the MIDI DIY or MIDITron where I can essentially connect a physical controller, define what it will do using the ‘built in’ editor and go to town.
I’ll dedicate “tens of hours” to this effort, but not “hundreds of hours”. I THINK there are a pretty good number of people who are comfortable operating at this “off the shelf DIY” leve, too.
Again – thanks for the tip and surely all due respect to those who want to dive in that deeply.