behringersite

applesite 

lookwhatwemade Look out: Behringer, already a notorious rip-off artist, is taking the “first step in [the] company’s reinvention of online presence.” I shudder to think what the coming steps will look like. But yes, the new site looks a wee bit familiar. It actually gets worse as you dig into the layout.

In fairness, for over a decade now, Apple’s site has perhaps the most ripped-off Website design on the Internet. But then, Behringer is special.

Back when the blog Music Thing was publishing, it was able to do an annual series on cloned Mackie and Roland/BOSS gear, some down to colors, typography, and control layouts. (Check out the MT archives for some of this hall of shame, or lack thereof.)

And Behringer doesn’t just copy the Apple layout like other sites. They actually send out a breathless press release that brags about their pixel-perfect, color-perfect clone.

Update: Apparently, you can thank readers of the Behringer Website for the choice. Mr. Tunes notes via Twitter that this design was chosen in a survey among other mock-ups, for which you could win a blatant rip-off of the Line 6 Pod. I could comment on that, but the things I might say would not make me a team player for “Team Behringer.”


After months of hard work from a 9-person development team, BEHRINGER launched a dramatically upgraded website today. Sporting an elegant, efficient aesthetic and an intuitive interface, the new site boasts a feature-rich series of upgrades…

Indeed, an inspection of image assets and CSS reveals that the development team really did re-create the design from scratch using their own images and code. (There’s 81 months of human development time the planet will never get back.)

Here’s the great irony: Behringer’s Terms of Use for their site.

This Site is provided for your personal and non-commercial use only. The purpose of this Site is to provide information on BEHRINGER and its products. All content included in this Site, including but not limited to any text, graphics, images, logos, button icons, data compilations, software, audio and video (collectively, "Materials"), is the property of BEHRINGER or its content suppliers, and you may not distribute, exchange, modify, reproduce, perform, sell or transmit the Materials for any business, commercial or public purposes. The Materials are protected by applicable laws and international copyright and trademark laws, and any unauthorized use of any Materials may violate copyright, trademark, and other applicable laws. You may not frame or utilize framing techniques to enclose any portion of this Site or any Materials without express written consent of BEHRINGER. You are granted a revocable and nonexclusive right to create a hyperlink to this Site so long as the link does not portray BEHRINGER, its affiliates, or their products/services in a false, misleading, derogatory, or otherwise offensive manner. You may not use any BEHRINGER trademark, logo or other Materials as part of the link without express written consent of BEHRINGER or as provided herein. If you breach any of these Terms, your authorization to use this Site automatically terminates and you must immediately destroy any downloaded or printed Materials herefrom.

Of course, the idea of Behringer’s proprietary intellectual property in this case is more than a bit absurd. Here’s Apple’s Terms of Use:

All text, graphics, user interfaces, visual interfaces, photographs, trademarks, logos, sounds, music, artwork and computer code (collectively, “Content”), including but not limited to the design, structure, selection, coordination, expression, “look and feel” and arrangement of such Content, contained on the Site is owned, controlled or licensed by or to Apple, and is protected by trade dress, copyright, patent and trademark laws, and various other intellectual property rights and unfair competition laws.

Indeed.

By the way, wasn’t “Seeing is Believing” the tag on one of the images on Apple’s site at some point? (Why would I not be surprised if that was, you know – nine months ago?)

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Apple's Ipad 2 is the fastest way to surf the Internet. I love mine! It's much better than anything

Just so you know, that was technically a Behringer fans rip of because new website designs were up for submission and voting for a long time, people like that design so thats what they made.

www.rolandus.com

Does it remind you of something?

"Not reinventing the wheel" might be a more positive way of putting how Behringer designed their site. =)

I like the new site layout!

Peter, I think Heiner has a point. Why don't you do an interview with Uli Behringer? Great topic.

Peter, why don't you do an interview with Uli Behringer and also write about the inside of the Company? I am sure this would interest your readership and also give you a chance to discuss sensitive topics. I am sure Uli would be happy to talk to you. Just a suggestion:-)

You can reach him through the Corporate Communication department CorpCommGlob@behringer.com

Well, I picked up on the Website for Behringer simply because Behringer sent a newsletter item and press release about the site redesign, which seems a bit -- optimistic, let's say. I was unaware of the Gibson example. I think it's less blatant, but also unfortunate. That's been discussed throughout comments, though easily to lose that in the nearly two hundred comments.

It's possible Behringer is being attacked unethically, but I do think there was at least some case in those that I cited. Now, that was over a relatively small number of products across their product line.

Actually you can see on Behringer's site that they posted around 10 different web designs (http://www.behringerdownload.de/News/Blog/index.ht... - look at the bottom) and asked people in a poll which one they liked. The majority of the people must have voted for the Apple inspired design and hence that's what Behringer went for. At least they asked the customers.

I believe the Apple design is one of the most used design but for a reason. It is very functional and clean. But what exactly is it? A grey navigation bar, a main and four sub windows. Everything is grey/white/subtle to make sure the colored product pictures stick out. That makes a lot of sense and I understand why people like. I like it, too:-)

Peter, thanks for your comment and you have a point. You are correct that there is a automatic protection for schematics, layouts etc. BUT this goes only for the artwork and not for the content. In other words you can't use a competitor's schematics but you can reverse engineer its product and draw out the schematic which is an absolute legitimate way to design. Google "reverse engineering" and that's how any industry works.

The technology used in analog mixers is 30 years old and there is hardly anything new except that opamps and other parts got better over time.

Software. You can't copy someones code but you can reverse engineer its function by writing your own code. Again perfectly legal.

The reason why Behringer won the lawsuit against Mackie is because while they did reverse engineer some products but never used their schematics or layouts. This is perfectly legal and also ethical as written in any law book.

Ironically many of Behringer's products are now copied as you can see with Alto, Phonic etc. And btw you can check that Behringer has a large R&D department with 160 engineers all over the world with software engineers in Germany and the US, many patents and even Uli Behringer holds some himself.

I hope I don't come across to defend them but I know some of the people in the German R&D facility and these are fine engineers who came up with amazing products such as the DEQ2496, DCX2496, FBQ2496, DSP2024, BCR2000, BCF2000, DDX3216 which are absolutely unique. All I am trying to say is that Behringer is constantly attacked, often by competitors just to discredit them for their own benefits. Is that ethical?

My question to you is why didn't you cry foul when Gibson or Access used the Apple design why before Behringer designed their new site? Also when you look at Behringer's product pages and its icons, you will see that these are completely different from Apple.

Heiner:

Actually, depending on where you live, that statement is incorrect, and it's certainly not correct for either Germany or the United States, the context for some of this discussion.

I'm not an intellectual property lawyer, but I can at least be certain of some of this. Circuit layout is generally covered under some sort of copyright protection. That protection, like other copyrights, is automatic - no active copyright registration or patent registration is required.

Now, that said, there are some very good arguments for free culture, patent-free innovation, and the like. If you really believe in those principles, however, you need to opt in. The law of the land is the law of the land. If you're a free culture advocate, you should check out efforts for patent-free technology, open source licensing, and Creative Commons licensing. Note that all these efforts work *within* the current framework of laws.

I don't say this to criticize Behringer, I say this because some of the arguments being made here (boiling down to "anyone can do whatever they want") are simply not true. And the fact that Behringer protects its own work under this system of rules implies that they believe you should play by those rules. That doesn't mean I'm right and they're wrong, but it does mean that these matters can be up for discussion -- with Behringer, and with anyone else, too.

In fact, if you believe these laws are wrong, that's even *more* reason to have a frank discussion of how they work.

John, technology is availabel to anyone except if it is patented. That's how the world runs otherwise we would be still living in the trees. Companies who produce mixers never invented them.

Quality? Behringer produces over 2 million products per year, offers 2 years warranty and even gives you a brand new one if it brakes within the warranty period. Who else does that and how could they possibly do it if their quality was not excellent? Ask service centers and find out that their failure rate (in ratio to sold quantities) is actually way below industry average. I have visited the Behringer in Germany and they are real nice people.

Everyone is entitled to like Behringer or dislike them but we all should have an open mind and be fair.

Sorry Peter, but you lost on me on that one..americans seem to love to hate Behringer for some reason, i've followed this thread for for many years now. i think it had originally mostly to with them offering a real competitive alternative to Mackie gear..stores like Sam Ash even refused to carry their stuff since it destroyed their crappy Sampson gear.

I think their price value ratio remains unmatched to this day and they offer a great choice to anybody who wants to save money..eventually something might break, but then i will happily go and buy a new one.

So there's a tough dilemma to the Behringer Problem that I've yet to resolve for myself: The inexpensiveness of their products offers realistic options for folks who simply are unable to shell out the (and let's be real here) sometimes astronomically-priced pieces that are being copied. HOWEVER, the price of DEVELOPING (as in having an original idea and making it real) something is an intangible cost that will always be exponentially more valuable than ripping that idea off. Not to mention the cheap, destined-to-break-in-a-month materials they use for said copies.

I personally have never owned a Behringer product, but as I said before, I suppose that some folks either don't know, don't care, or don't have any other options. Who I really feel sad for are the EMPLOYEES of the company who have to live with the fact that the sum of their life work is nothing but a cheap plastic punchline.

i think peter kirn one ups Behringer in tragickness just for pointing this out to me. 1 i dont care for behringer and 2 neither do i for Apple!

Apple are big boys and im sure they can handle it, and if Behringer can make a working copy of a product and sell it at a quarter of the price then good luck to them.

Whats the problem here?

I think all the BigBoys of business need more underdogs biting at their heels! Maybe then they'll go all out to give us better products cheaper. Shit like this keeps the fuckers real!

Long time reader here. Whats the name of this site again? Create digital - waaa? Maybe I fail to see how this post is related to music production in general, but it would be nice to see some posts about music making, tools, and things of this nature.

Just looked at www.gibson.com. Does that look like Apple?

Isn't it the other way around that KRK ripped off Behringer's yellow color which they owned for 20 years? Give me a break.

Soundsofgear have you heard of Kevlar? It is only available in two colors black and yellow. Aside from the yellow kevlar diaphragm, what is similar to KRK?

How about adam studio monitors?
http://www.adam-audio.com/studio/

and speaking of copying, why do their new monitors look very similar to the krk rokit series? lol.

wow, pretty interesting man lol.

But you gotta admit, it looks good. I'm used to seeing websites that have the same designs, I think this one is a little different because apple is such a popular site the everyone will immediately notice.

It's a good design, and fits for showing of the product.

But yes, they copied it lol...they definitely didn't "design" it.

I have a DDX3216 which is a killer digital mixer which is better than Yamaha. Even after 5 years it works like a charm. Behringer has helped me to build my studio without breaking the bank. The people form the customer service have always been helpful and friendly.

Thank you Behringer!

How many fender strat copies are out there in the market? What is all this noise about?
I love my Behringer stuff as it has always exceeded my expectations. It may not the best but it works just fine for me and has never failed even after many years of tough use.
But if you don't like the brand, buy something else.

I just laughed my ass off. This whole thread is hilarious and I have hardly read more stupid comments. Beringer is a cool company and I have lot of their gear.

Why would I care about their website? Feel free to kick my shiny ass...

After reading all these, i'm puzzled:

If i buy a shiny new Apple computer and connect a shiny new pair of Behringer audio monitors to its audio outputs, would you label me "classy" or "cheap" ?

I like sotiris' comment as he hit the nail

Take a look at the frontpage of http://www.korg.com.
Did they copy apple, too?

Bottom line: Who cares?

Are Apple/Behringer/Korg/etc. products good?

That’s what counts, not if they have similar webpage layout.

@apoclypse: yeah, people need to learn their acronyms. ;)

GNU = GNU's Not Unix.

XNU (the actual name for the kernel architecture on OS X) = XNU's Not UNIX. (They didn't say it's not Linux, but... that goes without saying.)

OS X isn't really BSD, either - while it has BSD bits in it, so do most Linux distros.

Now, actually, I think even some Mac users might question your superiority argument; the Mac *does* inherit the nightmarish Ports system for app installs that aren't Mac packages. ;) Mac's app installers are great, but uninstall isn't. Linux packaging has its own problems, of course. Core Audio is terrific, but Linux does some things right - and Mac OS works even better when you add JACK.

And all of this is off-topic. ;)

@Math: Do you even know what OXS is? BSD is NOT Linux. Linux is just a kernel just like OSX uses its own mach variant kernel with some BSD systems thrown in. OSX doesn't remotely resemble Linux in any way shape or form except maybe in some command line tools which ARE NOT LINUX SPECIFIC. It just happens that there are Linux equivalents of the same tools, which you could find equivalents across all unices.

Hardware wise, you may be right, but in the operating system front you are dead wrong. OXS is not a repackaged Linux, and imo is superior in architecture in almost every way to Linux in certain fronts (audio, windows server, application install, UI).

Well. after reading all of this, Behringer does remind me of someone that did ripoffs in is early years (i think he still does it), it sounds like Behringer if following the example of Bill Gates in ripping off other people stuff.

Well i guess that the next ripoff will be the monome, or some equipment that is not made by a big organisation.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Join-Us/
Behringer is hiring lots of people. Their biz must be pretty good in times when everyone is downsizing.

I love Behringer. My studio is full of it and I never had a problem with the products.

All the ranting comes either from competitors or people who have never tried the stuff.

More power to Behringer!

please don't forget to call out www.gibson.com (really)! I was pretty surprised at how blatantly they copied Apple's site

I've recently purchased two pieces of recent Behringer gear. The first was the UMA25s Audio/Midi controller (about $130) because of its positive reviews and the value/cost over similar controllers. I've been extremely happy with this purchase so with my new-found confidence in Behringer, I purchased a Xenyx 8 input-2 bus mixer next (about $70).

Why purchase such inexpensive gear? Because I can't really afford anything else. With a wife, a kid and a mortgage, I have to buy things very carefully. Also, I only use a debit card rather than buying on credit.

My "studio" consists of an EEEpc 901 HA (about $350) for my computer an external monitor ($100). I use Cakewalk Music Creator 4 (about $35) for my DAW. The Cakewalk software came with a couple of very nice VST instruments and I've found tons of free instruments on-line or through Computer Music magazine, though the bulk of the stuff on their DVDs does not really work that well on my computer.

I also have one of those inexpensive M-Audio 49 key controllers you can get at Best Buy on sale for about $79. Finally, I monitor my mixes using a pair of headphones that came with the Behringer UMA25s.

With this setup, I've been able to create music that keeps me happy and that my friends and family have enjoyed. And this music making fun cost me about $750.

I wish I had unlimited funds to purchase the kind of stuff the big boys use but I just don't. So I shop wisely and frugally. I love music and I love writing my silly instrumental pieces and my reasonably cheap gear has worked really well for me!

Pierre

If ony behringer didn't rip off other companies. I use a bcr-2000, it didn't seem like a rip-off. I like it a lot.

I have a virtualizer effect unit, a mixing board from them. They work properly but aren't high end.

I liked them back then. Products seemed inspired from other brands but were way cheaper. The mackie board similar to my behringer one was twice the price...

Nowadays... I don't know what to think. On one hand, they enable people to make music while on a budget. On the other, making money of other people's designs isn't acceptable to me.

I wonder if they rebuild products that do the same thing or if they carbon copy the internals of such products...

Their website's copy of Apple's design might be a bad move. I don't think people will forget this one anytime soon.

Still, it's funny !

I won't comment on the site redesign. Who cares?

Regarding Behringer quality, I imagine it's variable across their (many, many) products. But they certainly don't uniformly produce crap. I have a DEQ2496 Digital Audio Processor that is a highly sophisticated piece of gear and an amazing value. It also performs flawlessly. So thank you, Behringer. Well done.

i agree with toneofmouth,

if it's more user-friendly, then why not?

anyway, everybody copied apple's graphics,

because it's good...(and sober so everybody can appreciate it)

we could give tons of examples of others brands taking that shiny white & grey look...

that said

Behringer should find a new logo too

cause the actual is quite ugly looking...

Behringer copied Apple???? This discussion is hilarious. Their old site was shite as it had way too many colors.

The new design is spot on and I like it a lot. More power to Behringer as they enabled me have a great studio.

A happy user of their gear.

I like Behringer. I have a full studio of Behringer and the gear always worked fine for many years. I think some of the people here are Behringer's competitors and try to smear them. That's not the first time I have seen this.

And I actually love the design of the new website:-)

I agree with Math. What a stupid article.

Does Apple own white and grey? What has Behringer copied? A white page with grey background?

Why are so many using white and grey? Because it's what people want as we're all tired of cluttered pages and noisy colors.

Look up the Behringer product pages and they have nothing to do with Apple. Complete different layout, fonts, icons etc. Get real...

I operate a website that is popular in it's niche, and we have been ripped off again and again. As we're a small company there's not much we can do about it, and the culprits know this. The real irritating thing is almost of the consumers of the various sites know about ours and have used it for years - and they have NO PROBLEM accepting these sites which have clearly stolen lots from us. On the other hand, when people imitate their own creations they get all up in arms - it would seem like they'd know how we feel, but they don't care. And it's a lot more personal for us than a company like Apple.

all in all i was used to more constructive articles on that blog.

critisizing a brand leads to nothing and is very stupid.

berhinger may have bad products , but has very good products too...

a brand is not all good or all bad , apple is not all good (exploding iphones ) , maudio ( midiman used to do very bad products oxygen controllers for exemple ) , akai controllers are crappy yet they used to make good samplers , and bashing an entire brand , says more about the stupidity of the author of the article than the brand itself...

by the way apple is using bsd and unix structure in the osx , i'd like you to make an article about how apple is stealing linux to sell some crappy computers to nerds , cause that is the apple business model , we take some freebees , we invest all the RandD in packaging , and we sell the gear twice the price it is worth.

it would be yet anothe nice article on your so called blog...

what is the point of this article ?

did you code your weblog yourself?

or did you use an open source script?

webdesign is about copying ,

art is about creative stealing.

who are you to point the finger at anyone?

did apple invented their own design ? no they stole it too ...

This is the stupidest article i've ever red.

what it has to do with music and creation?

you dont like behringer ? just dont buy their product.

But in some countries , southern countries , poor musicians can olny afford low cost gear made by behringer.

Have you thought about them before critisizing that brand ? have you thought about the chinese people that have a job thanks to behringer so they can at least feed their family ?

the hell no , typicall dumb nothern folk point of view...

i wont read that blog anymore , it disgusts me...

Interesting discussion. I have worked at Behringer for around 6 years and I have to say I enjoyed the time there. I am not saying I agreed with everything in the Company but then which company is perfect?

You might be surprised but Behringer is a very well organized company with 150 engineers (US, Germany, Philippines and China) and 3500 employees worldwide. During my time I enjoyed a great team spirit and Uli is still heavily involved as he cares about the people and products. Most engineers I have come across are musicians and yes while they look at all competitors' products, their engineers always put lots of effort in pushing the technical envelope. The company has many patents.

Also the quality efforts in their own factory is pretty high and they apply lots of Toyota quality systems. I think there are some YouTube videos around.

I agree that some of the older products where too close to the competitors' models but look what they have released recently? There is no other product in the market that competes with the BCR2000/BCF2000 as these are truly unique products. Also the DEQ2496 is a great piece with no comparison. Uli's philosophy has always been to provide good and inexpensive equipment to musicians and knowing him, I can tell you that he means it as he is a musician himself.

Everyone is entitled to his/her opionion but I believe this discussion is somewhat over the top. Look how many companies get inspired by the Apple site and using grey background just makes lot of sense as it is a clean design and the colored products stick out. I find the new site much better than the old crappy one. Best of all it's now ten times faster.

Sorry I might be a bit biased as I truly liked working there. Just my 2 cents:-)

That was such a great read! hahahahaha! I've always wanted to find sites that said something regarding Behringer's "Photocopier" modal. I too laughed out loud, and have never found reading the legal "terms of use" so entertaining. Thanks again!

@Alex: So your music is just a banal copy of Top 40 hits? ;)

http://www.webdesignerdepot.com/2009/02/22-websit...

It's been done forever.

Hey, Peter,why aren't you asking yourself - why does CDM look like so many other blog sites?

I think it's because designers realize that there are certain advantages in others' design that warrant being copied or at least somewhat incorporated into their own designs...

Look at G&L guitars - Fender anyone?

Look at Tarrantino's films - he has made a career out of copying other people's styles.

Look at Beethoven's early work and compare it to Hayden.

Look at pretty much any popular design and I guarantee you it's not completely original.

All I'm saying is, Apple doesn't deserve credit for being the first because they put a grey bar at the top of the page and a couple pictures on the bottom. The cult of Apple is what offends me most about this article. As you can tell from my previous comments.

I mean, look at every band that's come out on a major label for the past 10 years! People copy! That's what we do!

Either way, I love your blog, even if you're copying rekkerd.org . haha! Thanks Peter! :-)

Torley has a good point which may have been missed further up - even Access, who do *not* make cheap gear, have decided to clone the Apple site. Now, I think if you look closer at Behringer and Apple, you'll find that exact gradient values, pixel widths, color weights all over the site get cloned, which is not true of Access. But in fairness, I find Access' site frustrating, too. I get the fascination with white and clean, but why not execute that with your own design? It implies Apple's site is some sort of model for everything else in a way I certainly can't agree with, even without the context of something like Behringer's history.