record_comp

Record is now shipping, and the beta closed – and now is a perfect time to talk about learning.

Okay, let me explain something. Propellerhead doesn’t want Record to be called a “DAW,” for Digital Audio Workstation. I personally overcame my own distaste for the strange acronym today because, well, there’s not another good name for a related set of tools.

But I do think Record is different. Workstations are usually defined by being all-in-one environments, for hosting other third-party instruments and effects, and adding in additional features like notation and video scoring. Record is none of those things. You can even treat it like a virtual mixer or rack of processing tools and load it into your existing “DAW” of choice, or take something like Ableton Live and load it into Record for mastering.

But then, Record is the exception that proves the rule, isn’t it? Aggressively geared to be the anti-DAW, to avoid trying to be all things to all people, Record illustrates the variety of ways you can get your music making done.

We’ve had a good, healthy debate on this topic, so no reason to resurrect that. Instead, I have two pieces of news: one, Record is now actually shipping. Two, if you’re interested to learn how to use it, or just to see what they’ve done, the Props have assembled a terrific set of learning resources. For beginners, “Record U” promises to cover the basics of recording tasks as well as the software. (So far, the first episode, “Recording Guitar,” is available.) You can add that to lovely ReWire tutorials from the folks who developed the technology, and mini-tips on how to use the tools. Whatever you think of the software, it’s an exemplary learning site, just the kind of thing you’d hope developers would do.

Basics video
Record U
Tutorials Page
Micro Tutorials and iTunes podcast link

I’ve chosen my favorite so far. Love it or hate it, I think this illustrates some of the vision of Record. It makes moving tracks and devices as easy as racking up instruments and effects in Reason, and makes mixing and matching audio uncommonly easy. That could make Record a nice tool to have around for trying to take your pile of recordings and productions and turn them into finished tracks and albums. (A lot of this “love it or hate it” phenomenon seems to depend on your feelings about Reason, so Reason fans will also want to take a look at the Reason – Record integration video.)

  • reclusive

    kind of off topic but does anyone know if theres a fix to get rebirth working on vista?

  • http://www.krasidy.com hjkramer

    hey Peter,

    Id like to hear what your thoughts are on propellerhead's decision to go this route (making Record). As ableton has clearly dominated the live market, a few people have mentioned to me that this seems like an attempt to cling to a niche under less competition. (ie at home, studio recording) what do you think?

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    Well, Reason was often used very differently from Live – more on the production front than live performance per se. I thought that was why Live had such an opening when it first came out. If Propellerhead were being reactionary in some way, I don't think they would have waited these many years to release a product that *records audio* – let alone that bucks a number of trends (like not hosting plug-ins). Really, whether you agree with this approach or not, you have to concede that Propellerhead does things their own way.

  • Captain Howdy

    Yawn…

  • http://www.propellerheads.se Ernst Nathorst-B&oum

    hjkramer,

    It's much simpler than that. Our company only has one reason for existence, and that is helping people all over the world making more and better music, and having more fun doing it. And "making music" means a lot of different things to different people. Reason is one answer, Record is another. The two together is a third. We didn't really design any of these programs in relation to other products, we just try to fill a need, as we see it. And we'll keep doing this, just as you see it now, for as long as you guys will let us.

    Our good friends at Ableton have another answer to the same question, which is just as valid, but for another type of user. Live is an incredible program. Propellerhead applaud the success Ableton are enjoying with Live, they really deserve it. Hats officially off.

  • billy

    i like how it says>>take something like Ableton Live and load it into Record for mastering. ha why not just master it ableton? if you have ableton theirs no point of considering to buy this.

  • http://www.totalreboot.com BreakPhreak

    Useful features, but a video message is kinda strange (maybe ironic too): why reshuffle the old array of cards instead of making music of your own? Why put such a stress on recycling?

  • http://www.document02.com Document 02

    What I like most with Record is the way it does less without being easier than, say Reaper or Live.

    Reason is really nice & easy, simple but efficient, and you just need to rewire it to use its full potential (and someone else's EQ). Record is closer to a photoshop LE (complex interface yet very limited) than anything useful.

    @billy: Probably was written by the same PR dude who said: "you can master and EQ in Reason" and "Reason is a full studio with everything you need".

  • Pingback: Create Digital Music » DAW Day: Propellerhead Record is Here, with … Software Rss

  • apoclypse

    I was a beat tester for Record and I have to tell you for mixing and mastering nothing is simpler and easier to grasp. It may do less than Logic (which I own as well) and may be a bit of a pain getting audio to it from some of my plugins, but the beauty is in the interface and the combinator. On eof my favorite things about Reason is the combinator. I can build quality effects racks in Record using the same tools I woudl use in Reason and and use them as effects in Record and that to me is what makes it appealing. I have all these great effects units that I have built in Reason that I can;t use on anything, especially audio without some major workarounds and headaches. On eof my favorite thinsg about Reason and by extension Record is that they keep the tools simple and very modular. They expect you to build your own tools out of what they give you. Another thign I like is that limitations sometimes makes me more innovative more prone to think things through. A lot of my Reason stuff sound far more trippy than anything I 've done in Logic.

    I don't think Record is for everyone, and I haven't used Reason enough as of late that I doubt Record is going to be any different, but I'm tempted as I loved the Beta a lot. My only gripe is that I find the interface a bit messy unless I start tearing windows apart.

  • pierlo

    offtopic maybe but the "humor" of these videos makes me wanna puke :P

  • Favomodo

    Wow, a personal response from Ernst Nathorst-Böös! Well done, hjkramer!

    I must say I *really* like the no-nonsense approach of Record, and being a Reason user for years, the whole workflow is pretty straightforward. For Reason diehards like me Record is a no-brainer, except for those who invested in another DAW in the last few years. For example, I can imagine that someone that bought Logic 8 two years ago, is having trouble in deciding whether to go for Logic 9 or for Record. I'm not sure if Record is appealing enough than.

  • gwenhwyfaer

    Ah, one day I will have enough money to be able to form an opinion…

  • Rob Avery

    I am going to buy Record the moment the Props add midi-out to it (beyond to Reason). I just can't understand why they didn't do this. I'm really frustrated by this omission because I really liked using Record, and can't with all my HW synths, unless I use something else to sequence them. Let's see what happens.

  • nylarch

    I bought Record b/c they basically gave it away if you wanted to upgrade from Reason 3 to 4 (or I should say if you bought Record they gave away Reason 4) and I have to say I'm shocked at how much I'm loving the combo. Seems to complete Reason for me (I always disliked the mixer and felt like you had to Rewire to something else). Not a single crash or issue so far which is worth its weight in gold (I'm looking at you Logic until you got to 8.02 almost a year later).

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    @BreakPhreak: I think they were just using those tracks as examples. A lot of us have piles of recordings and productions of our own lying around waiting to be given new life – even more when you count in collaborators.

    Actually, I find it funny that so many people are making the argument around whether a tool does more or does less. I'm fairly certain with all these other examples, that's not the real reason most people prefer one or another. Sure, if your life revolves around some plug-ins, if you need constant access to external gear and MIDI out, that'll be a deal killer with Record, no question. But the tool you choose is still likely to be most comfortable if it's built around the way you work, around your preferences. I think this notion that everything has to do exactly the same set of things in the same way has been disproven many times over.

  • http://ccmixter.org/people/colab Mikael

    I'm a Reason user and have been since 2.5 and absolutely love the environment. I grew up with hardware synths so the UI and workflow fits me perfectly.

    I don't recommend Reason to everyone because it doesn't suit everyone; and I think of Record the same way. I have been using Record for a few months now and absolutely love it. It extends what I could do in Reason both from an audio management side and from a mixing/mastering perspective – and since I do a lot of remixing/producing of other people's materials, this is a god-send.

    There are a bunch of features I'd like to see next – both for Reason and Record – but for now I'm a very happy camper.

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    I still think the hallmark of a great design is that some people fall in love with it, and it makes other people angry. If not, it probably isn't really making any strong design decisions… just falling somewhere innocuous in the center.

  • Davide

    Thanks for the Record coverage, Peter. I have been in upgrade limbo for a few months. After trying the Record beta, I sold my packages of Cubase Studio and Logic Express and instead of upgrading to Live 8, I'll spend less to sidegrade to Record for Reason 4 users. Live 7 I will keep, because it's just a different beast. I'm still mulling over next steps for my Energy-XT license…

  • http://joewall.com Joe Wall

    Before spending the $170 for my copy of Record, I took a while to re-read the comments on the original big posting about the program, and it was a real eye-opener. So many folks are enraged about the dongle and the lack of MIDI out, or just trolling the usual BS—not as good as X, sucks compared to Y, could never be as good as Z. All that notwithstanding, I paid up, downloaded, authorized it online on Saturday, spent some of the day playing with it, and recorded a complete episode for my ambient podcast on Sunday morning before noon.

    Didn't have to read the manual, didn't get hung up, crash, or overrun the processor on my 1.83ghz Core2 Mac Mini, and, just like Reason, it felt like an instrument, working perfectly with my Korg MicroKontrol and link:USB audio interface. That's the thing, for me.

    I hear so much "wah, wah, it won't do this or it won't do that," and I gotta laugh. I've been making music with electronics for twenty-five years now, stringing together unstable samplers with fidgety synthesizers plugged through scratchy patchbays, all controlled by a variety of computers that could barely stay running for more than an hour at a time before locking up, leaving an hour of good takes fizzling into the digital miasma.

    What Reason won't do, for me, is crash. Not once. Been live with it, on clonky old G4 towers, been in my studio with it, been on trains, airplanes, and buses with it, and it's never lost a song once. What it won't do, as well, is fill the entire trunk, backseat, and passenger seat of my car, or develop an odd buzz, hum, or click from a scratchy cable or pot. Maybe these limitations frustrate a lot of people, and I wish them luck with their absurd collections of gear all strung together with a system of data communication that's not been updated since 1983. For me, the prospect of being able to build rigs on-screen, just like I used to with my patchbay, then play, and stop for a break, saving the whole thing to a single file, is why I'm still making music today.

    I've used Record for less than a week, but the integration is spectacular. I hadn't bothered with the beta, so I didn't really grasp how Record really just works like Reason, but with the addition of audio—it's just brilliant, and I love that the learning curve I've got to climb is just the shallowest slope. I'd rather spend my time making music, not constantly having to relearn everything to keep up with marketing-driven feature bloat.

    I'm not super-keen on the way the screen works, which seems awfully clutter-prone, but I might just have to get used to it. I'm also still wishing that one day the Props will either give up on the simulated real appearance or give us a "turn off the glam" option to get rid of the cartoon screw heads and the silly animation of a programmer plug going into a slot. I know that stuff sells it to the teenyboppers, but my teeny done bopped its last bop when I cut off my mullet in the early nineties.

    MIDI out? Thought maybe I'd want it, but as much fun as it would be to toss my nice old junk into the mix, I'm happier to be able to take a break from a project and then bring it all back with a double-click. If I really need overcomplication, I can always sync Record to Tracktion (or my old beloved Vision, running on a compact Mac) and bring in the audio via an input. I'm not sure that Record would be all that appealing to me without Reason, so I think they should really push the pairing.

    Otherwise, I can sit here with this program, entirely within its world, and never run out of things to do or great new sounds I can build from the gear within Reason/Record. The stuff that I can't do is a failure of imagination, not the well-chosen contraints of the software environment.

  • sixnon

    " I’ve been making music with electronics for twenty-five years now, stringing together unstable samplers with fidgety synthesizers plugged through scratchy patchbays, all controlled by a variety of computers that could barely stay running for more than an hour at a time before locking up, leaving an hour of good takes fizzling into the digital miasma."

    would have to be the most poetic prose I have seen on a music forum for quite some time….thanks Joe Wall.

    I deleted my beta for Record because it did not make too much sense to me without Reason. I had not upgraded from Reason 3 to 4 as it did not offer me enough to justify the price. Despite having just purchased Logic 9 upgrade I paid the $200 odd AUD to buy record with the included R4 upgrade.

    Now it makes sense! As with Joe I think Reason is a necessary addition for REcord to make sense.

    I have the same reservations as many with regards to the interface, but it only arrived yesterday so I have some time to spend before I see if I can make it work for me on a MBP with external monitor setup.

    I haven't used Reason much in the last couple of year, but I am once again inspired at the possibilities of accidental, non linear sound discovery..

  • Brian

    I missed the original thread and I know, this must have been asked a lot but, 'why another daw?" keeps haunting me every time I read about Record. I've used a lot of recording software over the past 20 years and setting aside price, why not chose an app like protools , or even Logic which has great sounding plug-ins and is very stable? I'm about as excited about Record as I am to hear about another new soft synth or massive drum library.

    I had expected Propellerheads to release a daw a very long time ago. Seems kind of superfluous at this point. And the argument that its not a daw is feels a bit like a marketing play. If you can record, edit and mix, its a workstation. ProTools has done this for years.

    I do agree Propllerheads make spectacular products, so kudos to users who will find Record to be the perfect daw for them. I'm sure Propellerheads will do (have done) a wonderful job making it CPU efficient and stable.

  • http://www.document02.com Document 02

    @Peter

    "Actually, I find it funny that so many people are making the argument around whether a tool does more or does less."

    I'd say the real thing is not that much does more or less, but the amount it does for the hassle you have to put in. I am a big Reason fan for this, as it is very simple and yet rather powerful, even though it lacks some features I find critical.Now I beta tested Record, but I find it very limited and in no way simpler than, say, Reaper or Live. Actually depending on how you look at it, it either felt like an electronic musician ripoff, selling additional Reason features to the "complete virtual studio" through the means of another software instead of an upgrade, or like a "minimal DAW for rock bands".

    In the latter case of course I'd find it a rather good deal as it would be simpler than most DAW, but weirdly I have not seen anyone refer to it in these terms.

  • Aaron

    One thing you can say for certain. Count on the fact that nearly all DAWs within the next year to copy their track scrolling view.

  • http://joewall.com Joe Wall

    One of the reasons I think I'm feeling electrified by this combination of Reason and Record comes back to something bad that happened some time back. After getting away from four-tracks and the MIDI nightmares of sequencing on a Commodore 64, I blundered into Opcode's Vision (starting out with EZ Vision, which had the sweetest one-window interface in the world). It was one of those perfect intersections—where the machine and I just worked together, and I made a lot of good music that way, scored a lot of my stage shows, and otherwise felt comfortable with the software like you get comfortable with any treasured instrument.

    Of course, Gibson bought Opcode, trashed the company and the software, and left the user base without authorization servers, upgrades, or any hope of carrying on this relationship with an amazingly functional interface, and it threw me for a loop. Tried other sequencers for years, all of which were missing one thing or another and were intrusive, unstable, and lacking in the elusive state of flow I'd had with Vision. Reason's got that flow, and a way about it that makes you want to play and experiment, but when I wanted to integrate field recordings and audio, I had to go through Rewire, which requires jumping in and out of different work environments over the course of making a song.

    For the last few years, I've been working with Tracktion, a pretty amazing little DAW with a great “fresh sheet of paper” working interface and built-in modularity that's just rich and rewarding. It's clunky with MIDI, and the connection with Reason amounts to working with a song that's essentially two parallel songs, linked across apps. It works well enough to get by, but Reason/Tracktion are two worlds, not a single instrument, and that disjunction colors your process. For me, it was just too frustrating most of the time, and I didn't end up just playing and experimenting for fun after a while.

    In the end, I took a break from sequencing altogether, took up looping and building self-playing instruments, honed my chops, and mainly used Tracktion as a multitrack and editing station. I've had Recycle since 1.6 and Reason since 2.5, but I've just dabbled in Reason because I felt a little claustrophobic in a pure synthesis environment, using it to do soundtracks and more fully-composed music, even as I loved how neat and bulletproof it is. Record changes the landscape for me because it brings in all the field recording work and the loop work and those great disastrous playtimes where I take all my cranky old hardware instruments and plug 'em together just to experiment. It all just seems to work, and that's after I've been playing with it for less than a week.

    Maybe it's me, and I've worked with people who thrive on the chaos of broken-down gear, fritzy VST plug-ins, and enormous modular synthesizers that take hours to set up for each piece, but I can't over-emphasize how amazing it is to work in one place, with one tool, and to cover so many bases. The limitations are there, sure, and you know what? The Beatles never had more than an eight track recorder available. What a shame they weren't able to produce lush, impossible, glorious soundscapes in their music because of that terrible limitation.

    I do wonder about the separation of Reason and Record, because it is what it is, as I see because you can put them together. On its own, Record is probably a very good basic recording environment, but I'd just stick with Tracktion on that front, as they're pretty similar in terms of modularity of configuration (though Mackie's complete lack of upgrades, news, or apparent support for Tracktion makes me wonder if another Gibson-style app-sassination is underway). I can't help but think Reason 5 ought to be Reason+Record, with Record itself marketed (very) inexpensively as a way of bringing new users into the fold, just like was done, pretty brilliantly, with Pro Tools Free and LE.

    I'm also probably not the target audience for Record, as an established musician with something like twenty-thousand bucks worth of hardware gear accumulated over the years sitting around the place, and I think it's hard to market this kind of tool to someone who's got a Matrix-12 sitting in front of them. I'm historically a sampler guy, and it pains me more than a little to watch my beloved Ensoniq EPS and E-mu IV gather dust while I'm working in Reason, but there's a terrible truth in play, which is the built-in death sentence for those instruments. When the SCSI drive or the floppy that boots the OS dies, I'm doomed. When the custom G-chip dies, or the Ensoniq vacuum display fizzles, I'm done. With Reason, can I move from machine to machine, just carrying my controller with me. I depend on the Props to stay in business, or, if they go down, nobly releasing their apps to Creative Commons or something, but there's a universality that lets me feel confident in investing my time, energy, and enthusiasm into becoming a Reason/Record virtuoso.

    If I'm a kid just starting out, I can always get myself a cheap laptop, Reason/Record, a good pair of mics, and some nice monitor speakers or headphones, and have a better studio sitting in my lap than the Beatles ever had access to in their career for less money than I spent on my EPS back in 1989. That's something, as far as I'm concerned, and having it all come together so smoothly, given it's essentially at the 1.0 level, is just a proof of why I've loved Reason even in the years when I just noodled around with it.

    I'd love if the dongle was a little smaller, and would love, as I mentioned, a “turn off the fake wood, cartoon screws, and pretend faceplates” option, but that's all just stuff to shrug off. Of course, if the Props ever got cosy with their neighbors over at Clavia for a Nord Modular synth for Reason/Record, I'd actually start a new religion, and pray daily, facing Sweden. Probably unlikely, but a man's reach is supposed to exceed his grasp and all that.

  • Davide

    Great posts, Joe Wall!

    I just try to remember that the "real world" doesn't care which tools we use. Having said that: get thee behind me, Logic!

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    Well, I take back what I said earlier — this thread is much more useful than the original, in that people have now actually gone out and tested the thing. I think once you've tried the tool, you know, you're *really* entitled to your opinion. (In fact, in a way, it ceases to be your opinion – whether it works for your or not is really the ultimate test, and whatever you think, you're right.)

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    Oh, and for the record… (oops, cough, so to speak)… my big issue is that, while I really admire the design, I find this hard to even test. I'm too reliant on plug-ins and more conventional ways of working, so in a way this has been more successful in convincing me to take another look at Reason than it has in really trying to get deep into Record.

  • john

    i like the way joe has to emphasize how much easier it is than using his old samplers and other junk no one cares joe those days left us long ago real engineers want something for there money not child like low level dsp devices which have been available for many years.

    please explain to people why the fuck they may want to consider this horrid budget DAW in comparison to ableton and max for live ? i could buy renoise and reaktor for less than what reason and record costs and have ten fold more power, flexibility and creativity.

    honestly this is for kids end of if your a child engineer / i wanna be in a big famous rock band and have basic feature updates over a 8 year period please feel free to support RIPOFFERHEAD

  • http://www.cubricon.com Cubricon

    Wow @john… How come you seem to be so upset with Joe and Record?

    Maybe YOU don't care about hearing people's gear stories, but I think it is a stretch to claim that "nobody" cares.

    As for professional 'real' engineers, I have met a few and studied under a few others and I can tell you that even though they are mostly ProTools guys, they would never knock Reason whenever I talked about it. I am confident that they also wouldn't knock Record as a "horrid budget DAW".

    I can't asses the validity of your statement about the flexibility or price/performance of Reaktor+Renoise but I will say that there is no computer program on earth that will endow creativity. Creativity is a quality of a person, not a machine.

    If Reaktor and Renoise work for you, then great :) happy music making and please share a link so we can hear your work!

    Anyway, John, let me tell you about my experience with Record. I'm not trying to convince you about anything, just sharing my thoughts.

    First of all, at 29 years old, I think I am an adult (I haven't qualified for a "Kid's Eat Free!" night at Denny's for a long time!).

    I started making music on a Korg X2 back in 1997. Later on I bought Reason and even later, I went to school to study Digital Audio Technology (got my B.S. last semester).

    I Currently own Reason, Record and a few of their ReFills. I bought Live 4.0 but never upgraded (would like to eventually but priorities…). Thanks to a bunch of different classes, I ended up buying Logic Pro 7 and later upgraded to Logic 8. I had to learn ProTools. I also bought Melodyne Plugin.

    First and foremost, I am a music lover… I play piano and I love making music in Reason… that is, until Record came out… Now, I love using Record.

    Why?

    Maybe because I am used to Reason.

    Most of my projects during the last couple years were done in Reason and Rewired to Logic for vocals and acoustic instruments. I always wanted to get vocals to go back into Reason. So, now, I can do that without having to run Logic. I still do run Logic because that's the only way I can use the Melodyne Plugin at the moment, but I'm hoping that Record 2.0 or Recycle 3.0 will implement a Melodyne type pitch editor. I don't currently own Recycle, but if Recycle could do pitch correction the way Record does time stretching, I would buy it in a heart-beat.

    Anyway, back to Record vs. anything else.

    Why would someone want to buy Record in comparison to Ableton Live and Max for Live or Reaktor or whatever?

    Well, first I must admit that Max for Live looks pretty cool (reminds me of PD which I once had to use to create a patch to send MIDI controller data to Reason and Quartz Composer simultaneously).

    Anyway, I think it comes down to what the person wants to do, how quickly they want to do it and how much time they want to mess with synthesis tweaking.

    Every producer is different, but I find that Reason+Record lets me create music ideas very quickly because the interface does not get in the way of what I want to do. Record allows me to then refine those ideas and turn them into full fledged songs with Audio Tracks and the new mixer sounds pretty good! (don't take it from me, take it from Stephen Hart who, after presenting at the Propellerhead SF Producer's conference, PERSONALLY told me that the Record Mixer was a good sounding mixer, this guy "recorded and/or mixed several hundred albums with total unit sales of 40 million"source)

    I am not a big time Pro, and I may never be, but I can assure you that I am not a 'child' or a 'newb' either.

    I think that Record is an AMAZING product for the price that it costs and I would definitely recommend that you actually try the Demo before you comment back.

    The Record Demo allows you to save and export your work, the only limitation is that you can't open songs after you close them.

    But here's the Genius thing about the Demo… it is so stable that you could literally record a bunch of tracks and add effects and do whatever you want and bounce a finished song without ever paying for the software! So long as you don't close the song and your computer doesn't crash due to some other crappy program like the Adobe Flash Plugin!

    So go try the Demo and see if the limitations force you to be creative ;)

    Peace Out,

    Cubricon

  • PooPoo the Korruptah

    if only the P_heads originally made Reason with the ability to record!!!!

    The dumbest and most confusing non action to ever be coded.

    It makes no sense…

  • john2

    @cubricon listen dude i agree all producers are different we dont need the obvious stated, i love the rack concept its true to life i grew up with reality not software its just propellerhead are not a very nice company there a bunch of rip off merchants! if your happy with what they give you great the majority of engineers are not.

    and iv beta tested the product for a very long time i know what its like its pants its poorly thought out and rushed , propellerhead are known as lazy developers please feel free to explain to me why

    1/ id want to support a company which has no interest in listening to the audio community or giving people what they want and more importantly PAY FOR

    2/ use dross dsp devices which are comparable to something made in synth edit.

    3/ pretend it has all i need when it clearly lacks even some of the basic features expected in an audio application for 2009/2010.

    i can do everything i can do in reason with ableton/renoise/cubase/logic etc etc plus 10 fold more please explain why people want to bother with stupid imposed limitations? have u seen the learning curve for record? for some newb to reason they wont have a clue and when they find out they have to go through all these shity workarounds to do shit they can jst use one click for in another application there going to be fuckt off and rightly so.

    they have aimed this product at people who walk in guitar center or other and think they can sing or play or there the next big thing, plus they knew everyone in there existing community would have to pay for another application. WANKERS!!! iv used reason since version 1 i know the application well its just annoying to see such a great concept left in the hands of spite full idiots imho.

    maybe they should do a reason pro version and stop marketing and programing it as a child's limited pretty looking lego castle

  • kHz

    ummmm……why all the negatives??? I'm glad the props have an application to record audio, a little late but hey whatever. anywho program works great my only grip…..no midi out…..some ppl would only like this if it had midi out why u ask….well simple hardware gear..i have an mpc 2500 and id love the ability to sync that to record+reason ….it be killer… so someone answer WHY NO MIDI OUT …..explain the LACK OF MIDI OUT please!!! Mr.Ernst Nathorst-Böös

  • http://www.cubricon.com CUBRICON

    @John2

    Well John,

    It seems clear that you feel ripped off by Propellerhead and that you feel like they are headed in the wrong direction. It also seems possible that they are losing YOU and possibly others as a customers by making you very dissatisfied with them.

    I don't agree with your assessment, but I will not defend the actions of the company as I do not know their leadership personally nor do I have any knowledge of their business practices other than the fact that I have been a Reason user since v2.5, a few refills, and Record and so far, I have been more than happy with their products.

    When first I bought Reason, I also bought Live 4.0 and I loved the combination. However, when I moved to an Intel Mac Laptop, I had to leave Live behind because it didn't support MP3's (unless I did the upgrade and I couldn't afford it at the time… still have the license though).

    Since then, I went to school and purchased Logic Pro for my classes which is a very nice tool I also worked a bit with ProTools and recently, after graduating, I Purchased the Melodyne plugin for Logic.

    At one point I REALLY wanted to buy the Native Instruments suite, but that was definitely out of my budget.

    All of these different tools have nice features and drawbacks.

    For me, creating a song in Reason + Record is my default choice because of workflow and FUN!

    I know this flies against your statement that you have to do all sorts of work-arounds in Reason to do something that would take "one" click in other programs and I must say that sometimes I AGREE with what you just said.

    For example, in Logic, if I want to add a channel EQ to a track, I can just 'double-click' the Channel EQ button and BAM! EQ is there! In Reason you can't do that (but now, in Record, every mix channel has EQ and compression available).

    But the same thing can be said going the other way around. For example, one of the coolest things in Reason is the Spider CV and the Audio Spider. Want to send a copy of a sound to a bunch of different devices, you can do it easily… something that would need all sorts of work-arounds in a program like Pro Tools or Logic.

    Anyway, I will admit that you'll still have to click a lot of buttons, but I'm personally ok with that.

    Furthermore, I find that for me, making a basic music sketch in Reason, and now Record, is VERY fast compared to Logic or Pro Tools.

    I also agree that the intended market for RECORD might be total newbs, like a step up from GarageBand… but that doesn't mean it isn't a great tool! That also doesn't mean they stopped working on Reason or Recycle! Anyway, they are a business after all and I heard somebody say that this is the year of the Guitar (thanks to all the Guitar based video games). So, the Propellerhead company is trying to expand market share. What's wrong with that?

    I have no evidence nor knowledge of what is going on at the Propellerhead headquarters. Therefore I cannot comment on their developers being lazy or not, but my suspicion is that they took a break after releasing Record and now they are probably hustling to get the next version of Recycle out. And maybe Reason as well.

    Why do I say this, because it would serve their Record ecosystem very well.

    Specifically, for Recycle, I predict that the next version will also integrate into Record the same way Reason now does. I also predict that Recycle will utilize Record's AMAZING time stretching algorithms as a foundation for pitch correction ala Melodyne. That would suck for me because I don't want to have to pay for Recycle just so I can do pitch correction… and I have never been a big fan of the Dr. Rex. But if they implemented Recycle 3 in a seamless way, then I would have to jump for it.

    As for Reason, I assume that they will be upgrading it soon (whatever that means), I also would like a more 'pro' sound just like you are requesting.

    However, describing the bundling the new Reason devices with the older legacy ones as "dross" may be a bit strong. I mean, that would be like saying that Logic has crappy reverbs (to me, they are all terrible except the Space Designer which is great!)

    One thing that is GREAT about Reason's low DSP usage is that you can have SO MANY devices going compared to other resource hogging applications.

    Anyway, with all that said, here are the things I predict will come in future versions of Reason, some of may be wishful thinking:

    1) A WAY better reverb with a cleaner sound that will be as good as the best available software reverbs today (although the RV-7000 seems to sound better in Record than it did before, maybe my ears are fooling me?)

    2) Another Monster Synth. Call it Monsteröm.

    3) MORE integrated 3rd party devices like the Line6 stuff. LIke maybe Arturia ProphetV (or dream rather)

    4) A Physical Modeling synth

    5) A revamped sample bank for the REDRUM drum machine

    6) MIDI out (actually, I really doubt that, but who knows, they finally did audi-in)

    So, maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. And remember, the predictions are all speculation on my part, firmly founded on my suspicions.

    For now, I am very happy with Record and Reason and I can assure you that it has allowed me to have fun making music and recording.

    if you're still reading this, you might be interested in listening to a work in progress that I made last week which is 100% Record+Reason.

    It's the third all nighter I've pulled recently due to Record getting out of the way and letting me work. (one of my favorite features is "Duplicate Channels and Tracks".

    the track is code-named Grand Promenade and can be found at http://cubricon.com/3PM/Grand_Promenade1.mp3

    Like I said before, I am not a 'pro' pro, but I think that my work is not child-like either. And anyway, I rather like Lago blocks.

    To each his own :)

    peace out dude,

    -Cubricon a.k.a. Anthony Stewart Dias

    p.s. I still recommend that you download the demo and try it out for yourself, especially if you already have Reason 4. Either that or just forget about Reason for a while and just stick to the tools that make you happy :) And tell your friends what you like about those tools that you use and maybe share or sell your music to the rest of us, if that's your thing…

  • john 3

    @ cubricon

    just give it up dude you may think its brilliant it may do everything you want, but this company was built on mods and dance users.

    they have neglected us and need to pay us back. there so lazy they cant even update broken older devices, honestly im glad you realize how upset i am with the company me and others.

    im not totally condemning record im just stating the facts as i see them, the application has 2 brilliant points :

    1/the time stretching

    2/the mixer

    apart from that i cannot see how this isn't just reason with a new well overdue usable mixer and new JAW DROPPING time stretching algorithm and audio tracks (ALSO WELL OVERDUE).

    apart from this every single effect in reason is outdated FACT the very FACT you pointed this out in your post just confirms how right i am.

    no one wants a compressor which is imho one of the worst compressors i have ever used , no one wants a limiter that even though it says it isnt going over the limit goes over 0 db. no one wants sub par gear.

    they have wonderful ideas but they only now are coming up to the standard of say my waves plug ins and other synths i own.

    the layouts are fantastic the malstrom for example is very well thought out just my god why limit such a wonderful device its a crime to give it some of the shittest filter envelopes i have heard to date , also sub-tractor brilliant subtractive synthesis module, but there we have wank waveforms which alise easily and well it sounds lk shit.

    i can go on all day about the nuances in reason which should be outlawed straight from the off there not even clever ones which enhance the sound, just a waste. wonderful logically laid out stuff in reason just under the hood it sounds dull and fuckt. (RECORD DOESN'T BUT THE OLDER DEVICES STILL DO)

    if reason 5 is updated and all the devices have been fixed i will happily buy record and upgrade to reason 5 until then i refuse to give them even more money.

    i admire your work and wish you the best in your further productions

    yours sincerely

    john

  • http://hotmail ian

    i have been using reason for a while on p.c and i love it. i am about to upgrade will the 2gb mac mini run reason & record with no problems? will someone please let me know