bridge

Live maker Ableton and DJ and virtual vinyl developer Serato today announced the results of their partnership. First off, this isn’t what many of us originally speculated: it’s not a DJ deck inside Live. Instead, the collaboration seeks to bridge (ahem) the gap between the way DJs perform and the way Live users perform. The result focuses on the way a performance set is assembled in the two paradigms, an attempt to guide the flow of music between the two programs. Here’s how it works.

Bring Serato “mixtapes” into Ableton Live: Save a DJ mix – called a “mix tape” – in a Serato product, and export it to Live, and what you get is all of your edits in a form that can be further manipulated in Live. Waveforms and automation data from your DJ session, however they’re manipulated and transcribed by the Serato software, appear in Live.

liveinserato

Put the Ableton Live Session View “inside” Serato: Here’s where things get in interesting. Rather than put Serato inside Live, we’re getting Live inside Serato – after a fashion. Ableton Live runs in the background. Integrated into the Serato interface (as seen at the screenshot at top) are all your Session View clips from your Live Set. Serato’s control – via audio input from vinyl or CDJs, or an ITCH control surface – manipulates the entire transport of the Live set.

Unknown: Turntablists are probably wondering, can they scratch Live? How much are those Live clips able to do? Do they behave as they do in Live? (As far as I know, yes – Live is, after all, running in the background and appears to have its normal capabilities.) I’ll work on these questions with Ableton and have an update by tomorrow.

ITCH: Yes, you can use controllers that support Serato’s ITCH, not just vinyl or CDJs, in order to control the transport of your imported Live set.

Pricing: Free. Own Serato Live/ITCH and Ableton Live (full version or Suite)? The Bridge costs you nothing. (Yes, this seems to be a departure from the arrangement from Max for Live.)

Availability: “No release date has been set yet.”

Naturally, all of this begs the question: do you really want to do this? And I expect that question is about to get turned over and inside out all over comments here on CDM and around the Web. It’ll naturally depend a lot on who you are.

Taking Serato sets into Live is clearly great for Serato users. It means you can get a head start on assembling an arrangement just by DJing, or alternatively, that you have the ability to use Live as a way of editing your Serato set. (Now, again, this appears to be a proprietary format – but that raises an interesting point. Ableton now uses an open XML format, meaning you could also presumably deconstruct this new Serato export and enable it to be used somewhere else, whether intended or not. But I digress.)

thebridgelogo

It’s the more ambitious reverse direction that’s both the most interesting and the most potentially controversial. After all, if you’re using Session View inside of Serato, why not just use Session View? Will it be more useful to put Live inside the virtual vinyl environment than the virtual vinyl inside Live? (If it turns out you favor the latter, you have other options – not least the recent evolution of Max for Live patches for Ms. Pinky. More on that in coming days.)

Side note: check out the VIDEO-SL integration. That makes this all even more interesting as an a/v, virtual vinyl environment; see our ongoing coverage of VIDEO-SL and other vinyl visualism for Create Digital Motion.

I’m not a turntablist, though, so I think the real question is what their take on this is. And kudos to Serato and Ableton for taking the gutsy route here as far as combining these products. We’ll get a closer look soon, and I’m curious to hear the reactions – however impassioned they may be. (On your mark … set … comment. Oh, boy.)

http://www.ableton.com/thebridge
http://www.serato.com/thebridge

  • http://twitter.com/c_runk Cody Avant

    I think this is pretty neat. I bet the clips in Serato can't be midi though, but its a nice product. I'll have to see more picutres/demonstrations to make a final verdict… looks like im heading to the local pawn shop to get that pair of 1200's for 300 bucks :D

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    @Cody: Actually, the way it was described, it sounds like Live is in the background and Serato is just running the transport / triggering clips. That should absolutely mean you can use MIDI clips, drum racks, synths — which I would expect would be a big part of the appeal. But I have plenty of questions for them, and none of this is entirely confirmed; we'll know more soon.

  • Armando

    everyone that owns serato and uses it for the live rig usually complain of nothing but problems and issues with their product. LOVE THE CONCEPT! Hate the software. Kuddos for going in the right direction!

  • http://www.AdamJayMusic.com Adam Jay

    @ Armando, that's a pretty blanket statement. And a false one at that. Having used FS1, FS1.1, FS2, Serato, and Traktor Pro, and even Ableton Live for DJing. I have found Serato ScratchLIVE to be the most reliable hardware/software solution available.

    Its the only audio software that i can say hasn't given me a single issue. And that's for the last 4 years.

    Aside from that, Serato ScratchLIVE is known for its stability on a wide range of computers, old and new.

    What is the basis for your statement?

  • donkey

    A big meh.

    But I wasn't in the target group, obviously, so that seems about right.

    Btw, what's with the lack of availability dates these days. Ableton (and C74) did the same thing with M4L. Has software development become so complex that no one dares set the/a deadline.

  • Hint

    Armando – really?! Serato is pretty well known for releasing rock solid software and run extended public betas before each release.

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    @donkey: Well, I'd put it another way — I'd rather have development set the timeframe than marketing set the timeframe. I fully support not placing hard dates on releases. That's not to say I know the specifics of Ableton's / Serato's process, but the inverse — that having a hard marketing date you meet no matter what — is at the very least risky, at least if it happens too early in the process.

  • http://www.djinertia.com DJ Inertia

    TONS of questions. Waiting for a demo video to show up. I must admit that I was hoping too drag a a warped file into a channel called "Serato 1" & "Serato 2"in Ableton, and be able to manipulate it that way..

  • albert

    Any news on the status with ITCH?

    I'm not a turntablist, but I'd be willing to shell out money for a VCI-300 if this partnership works with ITCH…

  • djproben

    This is definitely cooler than I thought; I was just expecting seamless MIDI syncing between the two programs, which we already have in NI Traktor for example. Being able to save a mix as a Live set would definitely be very useful for DJs working out the perfect mix. I'm not quite as sold on the Live-inside-Serato; this is basically the syncing solution as per Traktor but with an interface on the computer so you can see your clips launching. Cool, I think, but if you have an APC40 or other MIDI controller with buttons and blinkenlights you really don't need the extra interface on Serato. You wind up losing Serato screen real estate for an interface extension that doesn't really show you everything you would see in Live anyway (and if you have to page back and forth between the Live view, you might as well just switch to the Live program so you can see everything). I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just not as revolutionary as the long hyped up wait suggested. Either way though this is definitely a very welcome development, and I wonder how long before NI includes something similar to the "mixtape" exports in Traktor….

  • Armando

    sweet mainly most of the DJs in Austin are using Traktor for the sake of countless audio dropouts and software glitches that Serato experiences, mostly with PC laptops. Plus I always get complaints of user interfacing with serato sucks compared to traktor. Granted I jumped ship after the cluster fuck that was FS 1.1.

    For the Serato user community here you guys experience same issues? Seems like DJTechTools is heating the traktor market lately. No one is better than the other war, my main concern is just from what I've personally heard amongst the DJ community around here.

  • djproben

    Armando: you are out to lunch. I have used both Serato and Traktor extensively for several years, and while I prefer Traktor for various reasons (though this might change that in the future), I have never had a problem with stability in Serato. It is also the most user-friendly of the DJ applications I have tried.

    Albert: I'm pretty sure this will work in Itch too since controllerism is the direction things are going and with the VCI-300 and the A+H controller out, it's clear Serato is moving that direction in a big way. It would be foolish for them to leave this out of Itch (particularly since it will probably be easier to integrate with Itch since you don't have to worry about the turntables…)

  • myfriendtheZebra

    I definitely feel disappointment with this. The original press release suggested vinyl control within Live, but it doesn't look like that's what we are getting. This seems curved towards Serato users which, in turn, is curved towards traditional DJs. This leaves out creative vinyl control for other forms of electronic musician.

    The other features are pretty meh to me simply because they aren't extraordinary or revolutionary.

  • djproben

    heh, I crossed replies with Armando; the "out to lunch" was in reference to your previous comment. oops…

  • http://PopChopper.com BLAKEBUCK

    While this looks interesting, and is right up my alley as a Live / turntable user, I'm not ready to shell out the $539 required for Scratch Live. Piping in audio from another Torq powered laptop into a Live laptop works great, plus I can mimic this 'Bridge' within Live using Ms. Pinky's.

    Speaking of which, Peter, you hinted there'd be an upcoming announcement about an official Pinky Max patch. Can you give us any more details? Hopefully clip-based scratching rather than using a file browser?

  • Armando

    werd its good to hear it from other people that they actually have no issues. Do you guys use the same stock setup out of the box or have you tweaked it a bit with say, better cables etc.

    I remember the littlest things always being able to make or break your show.

  • Hint

    @ Armando – the only issues I ever have with SSL are down to poor gear in clubs (i.e. faulty phono cables, tonearm connections etc). As far as the software is concerned, it's never caused me any issues (on a Macbook). In my experience, it does its job very well indeed.

    Traktor is certainly getting more and more user support, and it may well be "better" for some people since it offers more features. But as far as reasons for jumping ship from SSL goes, stability is way down the list for anyone I personally know who uses SSL.

  • http://soundcloud.com/corticyte corticyte

    WOW. I did NOT expect this! I was thinking a Serato-branded Timecode-to-MIDI device inside Live but this is so much better!

  • Chris

    so wait, is the live playback synced to the time code? so I could mix in and out of live clips and tracks?

    if it is… what happens when I play the record backwards? esp. to MIDI clips, or effects w/randomized settings?

  • lalalaa

    eagerly awaiting the ms pinky patch and getting that.

  • dan

    Slightly OT, but you say that Ableton now uses an open XML format?? Since when? Is that something that came in 8.1? My 8.0 sets are definitely not XML, and for now I'm scared to upgrade to 8.1 given all the issues (8.0.9 is totally stable for me).

  • http://regend.com regend

    @Armando SL1 has been rock solid for me from day one. the problem has always been the .mp3 format and bad encoded files from users that crash it or a Windows XP image badly configured. i've run SL1 on a PIII 900mhz with 256 of ram and on a 1.6 Atom netbook with rock solid performance, no audio dropouts, never a crash. even when i look at the release notes for each of the bug fixes i have to stop and think…has that ever happened to me? i wonder what people are doing to cause it to crash.

    from a tablist perspective: this is exciting. i'll now have the ability to scratch and juggle a set of clips from my ableton live sets instead of a single audio file that i've exported from Live.

  • Max

    Ok I think some guys need some rectification cause they are totally on the wrong track or are not dj at all.

    I own Traktor Scratch pro, Serato SL3, Ableton live 8 suite and torq,

    Serato is the only software of them all I can say has bullet proof stability.

    I personnally think that they made the best choice to put ableton control in serato… Why? This is really easy to find your track in serato… In ableton live this is plainely a pain… With over 100 gig of track… this is impossible to dj in live, on the go, all the track need wav conversion and long analyse, audio drop when you drop new track so all the set have to be prepare before the gig…

    Behing able to trigger ableton loop in serato is going to be plain awesome.

    So this is really the best of both world.

    (sorry I speak french and my english is aproximative haha)

  • http://www.myspace.com/jamesyanisko JamesY

    Importing your serato mix into live sounds great, if you're using itch. What about all of us that use a standard set of turntables (or CD turntables) and output the two channels to a standard mixer to use the volume / crossfader / effects on that?

    I can't imagine they've found some way to track fader moves from a regular mixer so you don't have to recreate them in live with volume automation….

    There's already a sampler inside of live that you can set up before hand. How is adding live into the mix revolutionary?

    I just hope we can choose to not have the live interface running even if we have live – and keep serato being as rock solid as it always has been.

    I'd have to hear waaaay more before even being slightly interested – and I use both pieces of software.

  • Joe

    Biggest hype/letdown in ages. Expected some direct integration from all their BS hype. This is a pathetic attempt at a first step towards what they hyped.

    Ms Pinky plus Max for Live wins by far.

  • myfriendtheZebra

    @Joe

    I wholeheartedly agree. The hype should have resulted in direct integration. The mixtapes and the "Live in the background" is sidestepping what should have been done.

  • http://tarekith.com Tarekith

    Yeah, I was really hoping for something like a Serato Device in Live. Something you could just drop a warped track into ala Simpler and then use timecode vinyl to scratch with. This seems to really only benefit Serato users, those using Live to DJ already have most of this functionality just in Live. Oh well.

  • salamanderanagram

    anybody who expected live scratching of incoming audio was deluding themselves, imo. scratching backwards, maybe, but forwards? i don't see bow that would work at all.

    and since there's no date for release yet (meaning they must still be working on it), can we assume that ableton is breaking their promise to fix live 8 before adding more features? if so, shame.

  • http://www.tranquera.org Tranquera

    Seems that for Ableton users running Serato this The Bridge thing could be very interesting…

  • http://www.technoetc.net/blog AO

    Does this mean Ableton and Serato share a soundcard?

  • http://www.createdigitalmusic.com Peter Kirn

    Keep the questions coming, folks,and I'll get what answers I can from Ableton. May be some delay, as I have limited online access today.

    This does work with vinyl and itch, according to Ableton, I just need to learn more specifics.

    Live introduced an xml file format with 8.1. I'm researching it as I want to use it with my own sets.

  • Jordaan

    I don't get what all the negativity is about. Ableton and Serato have come through with something that has heaps of potential. If you are using a control surface to mix with, all software fader, eq automation will be recorded (depending on your setup of course). For those using traditional dj setups like the SSL, the audio for the mixtapes are on separate tracks for easy mixing live. Pinky is a great tool but I can also appreciate this approach which is cleaner.

    We don't yet know to what extent vinyl control will be used to control playback of ableton clips. From what I've read, the clips sync to the tempo of the deck they are assigned to. Fingers crossed this is vinyl control! The interface looks decent considering it is the information of two programs – its not too cluttered. Overall I'm impressed with what they have managed to do an look forward to hearing more. I've been in the market for a new interface/mixer and the TTM 57SL is appearing way more attractive now.

  • DrOscillator

    I didn't see anything mentioned about how tempo will be synced between the two applications. I would assume for the "Live window inside of Serato" functionality to be useful that Live's tempo would have to be synced with one of Serato's turntable's tempos. If were the case then I could see this "Bridge" being extremely useful – having a set of drum loops and effects in live that seamlessly matched the tempo of whatever you were doing on the turntables. Or being able to blend a Serato track into a full warped song in Ableton and back again. Any details on this?

  • Shini

    Can't wait to see this at work!!!

  • salamanderanagram

    disappointing that the video on ableton's website, instead of showing what this can do, is a couple of DJs talking about how this is the 'next big thing.' yawn.

  • Nail

    I wonder how buggy this will be.

  • http://blancodisco.com benny blanco®

    NI has this feature (Mixtape) in Traktor 3 under the Native Mix Recorder, and then it was lost when PRO came out. I've been hammering NI as well as other to bring back the Native Mix Recorder into PRO. Maybe this will get them motivated to re-engineer it again as this is the line they posted in the NI forums is something to the effect of a while back.

  • http://blancodisco.com benny blanco®

    my antibiotics have kicked in and I clearly can't write today.

  • http://www.myspace.com/k1ru six.fingered.chyld

    i got a question…

    and i'm not a dj at all, but this really grabs my curiosity. are you able to record what you are playing off of serato onto the ableton?

    say you want to create a loop out of a beatjuggle, for example…would you be able to feed the input into one of live's tracks and record it??? kind of a weird workflow, but i think that would be an excellent feature for sure!!

  • http://www.e-lectronica.com/luthierlab/ Mudo

    Not so bad… almost FREE!

    Clap Clap Serato!

    I'm waiting more news before make move…

    ;)

  • jessesr

    I know we're all just speculating about possibilities here, but my curiosity is piqued. I take it Live is running in the background and Serato controls Live's tempo. Could this "background Live" then be set as the master clock in relation to another laptop? In other words, could someone use Serato+Live while someone on another computer used Live and have the whole thing synced to the turntables? Maybe I'm missing something, but this would seem easier than solutions that have come before.

  • http://twitter.com/mrtunes Mr. Tunes

    this is very interesting, but i'm worried that it's going to be a bit overkill. i hope it doesn't affect the overall stability of either program.

    there are a lot of DJs who only like to spin the traditional way, and a lot of Live PAs who don't use the traditional methods. there is a small group that overlaps between the two, and i'm worried that this group is too small for this product to be really successful.

    the mixtape feature will surely be welcomed amongst many DJs i think!

  • Justin Reed

    +1 for serato stability … all issues I have had with the use of it are related to bad needles (the software even supports losing one source elegantly with an input switch button)

    i have had to use this live twice and still played seamlessly with one TT.

    serato boom ba yea!

    ableton boom ba yea!

  • Justin Reed

    oh yeah –

    Downloading ableton 8 upgrade tonight while the discount is still running! This has cinched it for me. awesome sauce :)

  • http://regend.com regend

    Co sign @Justin Reed. I always teach Serato SL1 newbies who use XP to learn how to disable memory resident programs and to learn to switch to internal mode when things go wrong with needles and tables. there is a way to set up WinXp so that as soon as you boot up a PC it boots only the essential memory resident programs and loads SL so you never see the XP desktop unless you toggle out of SL. Instant doubles is by far my favorite feature though…and now Multi decks? *drool*

  • COOLOUT

    Serato users…Welcome to 2008.

    I've always thought Serato was overhyped and overpriced. Most people have it because everyone else does. It's to the point where the name is almost synonymous with DVS. I like the fact that at least Rane is catching up to Torq and Traktor in features, but upset because everytime they add something the fanboys act like it never existed before and overuse the new feature. When they added the sampler all of a sudden 9 or 10 serato users were hitting the "air raid" sound over every blend. God…now I'm probably going to hear shitty "live" remixes everywhere.

    Don't get me wrong , IMHO if you suck as a DJ, you'll still suck with any DVS…on top of that no DVS is perfect. Torq still needs proper jogwheel support for 3rd part MIDI controllers and to address the slight sticker drift issue. Traktor could still use a dedicated sampler. But…Serato is no where the end all, be all of DVS. I've seen Serato crash on stage at least 4 times over the years.

    One good thing though is the ability for Ableton to record Serato mixes as automation. This was an idea I had for Traktor but never tried out. It's possible to use a virtual midi cable to have a midi sequencer in between Traktor and a controller. Hypothetically if you managed to have traktor as the master midi clock you could then record/playback your midi controller movements and edit them inside of the sequencer. Taken even further…what if folks started to trade midi files of this data? People could trade hotcue drumming routines and even scratches the same you can trade midi mappings. Just a thought…

  • Justin Reed

    mixtape looks so very promising…i have been thinking of a way to implement sets from serato back into ableton multitracked…a little midi automation on the faders, the xfader and ableton eq and now i have it.

    I wonder if the added latency will bug me?

  • http://www.e-lectronica.com/luthierlab/ Mudo

    Nothing new…

    Scratch notation is out there too…

  • http://pz.starfog.net psylozen

    I'm kinda excited by this…

    As a Traktor user, there's some things I really like about Serato, particularly the wave forms.

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and make some assumptions.

    You'll be able to:

    -Live running in the background lets us use *all* of Live's functions, including instruments and plugins.

    -Control, at the very least, Live clips w/ Serato vinyl.

    -It would be really cool if you could map the vinyl to any control in Live.

    From a programming point of view, it would be way easier to make gui adjustments to both programs so that they can access each others functions, rather than pulling bits out of each and cobbling them together into something new. So I'm pretty confident about the first two…

    Which would mean that we'll be able to do things like:

    -mix as usual w/ vinyl or use midi

    -bye bye 2 or 4 track limit, you should be able to play however many tracks your machine can handle

    -use Live's instruments to add to the tracks you're playing

    -use plugins (how long have I been waiting for vst support in traktor?)

    Think of the possibilities instead of shitting all over it before you even know any real details.

    I think Serato has just been handed The Kitchen Sink.

    Discuss (:

    m.

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  • myfriendtheZebra

    @psylozen

    A few of those things are what we expected due to the hype that surrounded the partnership. But if you look closer, most of it has come unfulfilled.

    If you are a Serato user that would like to dabble into Live, this is good for you. Otherwise, Live power users won't get much out of it…the "collaborative" functionality really just means the software will communicate rather than cooperate in a live setting.

  • http://www.e-lectronica.com/luthierlab/ Mudo

    Well… these "special" features are the next Pinky ones probably…

    ;)

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  • http://john.capseat.com John Tyson

    I wonder if this hullabaloo about this just being good for Serato users… does it have something to do with that DJ battle bracket Ableton and Serato are holding? I read something about them still having minor disagreements about software development, and that they are 'settling' them with a friendly DJ battle. Not to get people's hopes up, but maybe a Serato device inside Ableton could still be forthcoming?

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  • http://myspace.com/tibbitsmusic mister_nick

    As a hip hop producer/dj, this is exactly what I've needed. When I'm DJ'ing the live sets for an artist who's tracks I have produced, this should allow for some fun deconstruction on the fly.

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  • http://regend.com regend

    @COOLOUT "Serato users…Welcome to 2008."

    I understand this gripe. i beta tested Torq and was excited about the VST insert but not so excited about the vinyl emulation mode…even to this day Traktor and Torq don't measure in vinyl emulation. It's one thing to tout reliability as a DVS but just because everyone else has it isn't really the driving force behind SSL. Yes the PROs use it but because the vinyl emulation is rock solid for their needs when that's all they need it for (Jazzy Jeff as an example). The newbies can then justify why they need for whatever reason. I think REAL Dj's choose the DVS based on what types of music to play…ex: all the electronica DJ's i know use Traktor because of the built in 4 decks and effects. All DVS systems have their plus and minues and yes Serato isn't heavy on features. It never was that intention in it's early stages. What the coders wanted to get right was vinyl emulation and the tracking qualities when using basic DJ functions. The code is just solid. Windows XP, faulty RCA's, Dirty Needles, are more of a culprit in my experience. Also, lack of basic PC skills is also an issue. So combine a newbie to Djing and a newbie to computing? It just doesn't work. All hardware fails all software has bugs but when i'm doing a juggle routine and throwing in combo scratches that i could do fluidly with vinyl. i want that same response in a DVS and SSL hands down wins. Being able to do those same routines with my own Ableton clips? WIN!!!!!

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  • http://www.soundcloud.com/morphiend-music Morphiend Music

    CANT WAIT

  • http://www.beantownboogiedown.com Nick

    Although I haven't been as eagerly anticipating this as much as some people, Bridge is an interesting concept. I wasn't expecting to see it work in two different methods (ATC vs. Mixtape); like many others I thought it was going to just be a standalone app with your standard serato interface along with the ability to sync and trigger loops and beats like in Ableton's session mode.

    The practicality behind being able to record all of the info performed on a mix, especially when using control surfaces is amazing. Although many will say it's cheating on the DJ's end, I disagree. I honestly feel that the challenge of DJ-ing has become less about the technicalities these days and more about finding creative ways to deconstruct and reconstruct pieces of music using the software while trying to make it all sound cohesive.

    As Live 8 has been a little buggy, even in recent updates of it, I'm hoping that Ableton will continue to focus on making it as stable as possible in the upcoming months. However I'm sure it will end up working pretty seamlessly with Ableton regardless.

  • DJ KYE

    Turning ableton, this a great one as the interface. Could be used against the fabric grain and up against the vinyl, if not, vsts of the program. Furthermore, I hope that both beat and complex warping can be integrated within the cdj2000s hotkey application without the need of using a phantom-slave. I could imagine having, for an example, the headphones inside a formant-filter for added midi triggering anti-clips for serato pro's. This is the first step towards a metrophysicologic Dj, and I for one, welcome this. Discuss

  • http://www.djforums.com mattyvee

    I have not used the product, but how is tempo addressed? My problem with trying to sync live with ssl was always that the tempo in ssl is constantly drifting. Is it still going to trainwreck every time you get a clip launched or is it going to take the tempo from one of your live ssl decks as the ableton master??

  • http://www.klangfreund.com Samuel Gaehwiler

    @ Peter: I have a question, you might ask Serableton:

    Would be nice to know if the vinyl-control of an Ableton set only works in relative mode or also in absolute mode (where you can drop the needle and the songposition will jump right to the corresponding time).

    For absolute mode to work fluently, the whole arrangement needs to be in RAM. Assume you have 20 tracks in your arrangement. The amount of RAM as well as the computing power for resampling (scratching) each track individually would be very high. So maybe instead of working with each track individually, a single mixdown (bounce) of all tracks is stored in RAM. But than again, what happens if you trigger a clip in the embedded session view in Serato and thereby mute the corresponding track in the Live arrangement? Calculating a new bounce on the fly? Thats why I assume vinyl control of Live is only possible in relative mode, where only a window around the actual songposition has to be stored in RAM.

  • http://www.e-lectronica.com/luthierlab/ Mudo

    I think there are alternatives to "absolute mode" ram based but obviously I'll start "mute" (as my name says) because I will implement these features inside Ms. Pinky (of course).

    I still need a job…

    :P

  • http://92bpm.com hza

    Curious for a demo.

    I'm an late Serato user who's a later Live owner (just bought Live 8, and am slowly getting going). I've been pretty excited about migrating from Serato to Live but it's been slow @ best. So I was pretty curious to see this come out as I had heard the rumblings.

    I does sound like it still favors Serato users as someone mentioned.

    Another Q? I have is how this would work in Serato's internal mode.

    Still looking fwd.

  • http://www.magneticpitch.com john k

    i don't use serato or DJ with tables, but Serato's website specifically says that this is just the First Step in their collaboration with Ableton, and it is FREE (if you already own scratch and Live)

  • Anon

    It doesn't really "beg the question." Not at all. That being said, this looks pretty exciting.

  • http://uptowndivision.com Shane

    So did they leave out the most useful feature? I want to be able to route my serato's line outs to ableton internally and run abletons outs through the serato box, essentially putting ableton in between serato and the serato box. Then you could throw down unlimited effects, combine with other clips/scenes, throw down synths/baselines live over the music, essentially do anything. I issue would be quantization and warping, but i would be happy with just the bpm from serato being sent to ableton, i really just want it as an awesome effects interface, hopefully the serato effects down suck, i feel bad for everyone who bought the denon serato controller as it's now badly out of date, and hopefully we don't have to wait till next namm for a new effect/looping controller.

  • JannisPablo
  • ezelkow1

    Shane: yup looks like thats out, that would have basically been rewire which would have made this useful

    Heres more info from dennis on the ableton forums, basically says its only really useful for vinyl/serato users to begin with

    http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=1061898#

  • http://uptowndivision.com Shane

    Seems like this is useless, also it seems the ableton mix saving is pretty cool for itch, but with scratch live it wouldn't really work well. I'm excited for the other serato 2.0 effects, the playlist uploading sounds cool. Basically you can choose to upload your play histories to an online account where you can share playlists and they can have a top played section and such.

  • Hater

    I've been using a Serato/Ableton setup for shows for years. Serato's sampler addition had poor MIDI control options, so I still had to use Ableton.

    This solution looks fantastic to me.

  • http://www.kidwithoutradio.com/store edison

    ablato

  • djproben

    According to what both companies are saying, this is only "part one" of the serato/ableton collaboration. So supposedly there will eventually be a "part two," perhaps incorporating some of the features people have been mentioning here…

  • http://mouzpusha.blogspot.com mouzpusha

    As several people before me, I'm wondering about the capabilities in regard to software instruments running inside live. Is The Bridge going to allow me to record new midi clips onto a track while inside the serato view, playing the note I'd like to one time and then scratch the resulting loop? I'm particularly thinking about adaptive loop lengths here, say I'm jamming out something live and then I notice that that last bar would really make for some good scratching, so I immediately transition from my midi keyboard to my serato controller…that kind of thing. I also used Live alongside a DJ friend of mine who happens to be a Serato user, this could make for some awesome cooperative playing in that setting.

    so long

    Andreas aka mouzpusha

  • http://seguesound.com DaveDri

    The Serato GUI has a fair room for improvement, and could take some notes from Ableton over coming revisions.

  • http://www.abletonserato.com Ableton Serato

    Version 2 will allow Live to use the soundcard from serato as its output.

    YESSSSS!

  • myfriendtheZebra

    @DaveDri

    I think that's a serious understatement. I hope they do something to it because the UI in general looks pretty bad.

  • http://dailymixdown.com Mark

    Looks like a nice piece of kit for sure. Nice work guys.

  • http://kief.net/ Valis

    Looks to me like they're just making Serato a 'controller' for live. Nothing wrong with that, and as an owner of both I'll certainly give it a shot, though I suspect a new laptop is in order to leverage this for any real use.

    For those in Austin having performance issues, assuming that things are properly cleaned/calibrated/cabled (with good cables) I suggest setting Processor Scheduling to "background" to insure the audio buffers are handled properly.

    I've used Final Scratch 1/2, Traktor 3/Pro/Scratch, DjDecks & Serato and bar none Serato is what I trust at a gig, the only issues I've had are due to grounding problems in crap PA setups (turntable feedback due to 60hz/50hz 'noise') and calibrating properlay nd using relative mode solves any issues there too. Ableton is a close second btw.

  • djsrulez

    Maybe im missing the point but why the "bridge" if the APC 40 can't control ITCH. (That is if you you're like me and don't want to use vinyl). So you need to buy 2 controllers? One of ITCH and one for Ableton? Is it just me or am I the only one that wanted this the other way around so I can use ONE controller???

  • http://www.e-lectronica.com/luthierlab/ Mudo

    The Bridge is for Serato partnership not akai.

  • http://ifnotwhynot.me DJSDive

    the midi clock sync between traktor and ableton is flaky. it works fine if you have a fixed bpm, but falls down flat if you have changes in bpm. wonder if the bridge works this out better.

    other than that i wonder if there is any way to hack this integration to work in other DJ apps .. like mixxx.

    anyways .. lets see how long it takes NI to beef up the Maschine integration to compete with this.

  • http://www.e-lectronica.com/luthierlab/ Mudo

    @Djsdive:

    It could be possible because mixxx has OSC send out and with any open "bridge" wrote in Python… almost Serato Hardware has any "chip" dongle inside to unlock these features… in other way you could do it with maxforlive and any audio interface.

  • myfriendtheZebra

    Just got home after a long weekend at NAMM.

    I hung about some of the exhibitors at the Rane booth and they seemed pretty dedicated to sell me the idea, especially after I told them of my disappointment. The person I talked to was on a DVS/APC40 setup with a Macbook Pro (with only 2GB RAM and running pretty smoothly). It seemed to work well, but he still had to run both of the programs at the same time, and as I watched him , he was constantly switching between Live and Serato. It just seems like it's not as a big of a deal as they are making it to be.

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  • http://ifnotwhynot.me DJSDive

    @Mudo: Mixxx currently has no support for OSC, though it should be fairly easy to add. It also doesnt have MIDI clock support atm either. Then again atm it doesnt really know about beats either, but there is already a branch (will hopefully make it into 1.9) that does .. and by then midi clock sync starts becoming interesting.

  • http://www.ilektron.com Mudo

    @DJSDive

    xwax maybe? Maybe I'm confused…