Interactive touch layouts for sequencers are something of a no-brainer – imagine if an analog pattern machine and the deck of the Starship Enterprise had a love child. But platforms come and go. And just because the iPad is the shiny, new thing – and remains the most affordable solution at the moment – doesn’t mean you shouldn’t learn from ideas beyond just the platform with an Apple logo. Almost a year ago, we saw some compelling sequencer ideas for the Lemur. Sadly, that hardware was discontinued in the fall. But the users keep using it.

Matthias Wille’s Sequencomat has gotten far more powerful since we last looked at it. Far from catching up, indeed, he argues iPad apps are falling further behind – and he makes a good case for that. So hardware and software designers, take note.

It does sync, in both directions. It sends just about everything. It can randomize steps. You need the software on the host computer, not just the controller, but put it all together and there’s some serious power here. Matthias gives us the overview:

  • detailed stepvalues for octave, note, velocity, length, CC, delay, steppropability (V2 had only trackvalues for those functions)
  • switchable randomfunction on each stepvalue for velocity, length, cc … very nice to variate some aspects of a pattern single and multiple track editing
  • 3 clocktype: Master, slave, rewire (and – I still wonder! – my own clock is more stable than most professional DAWs) for sure independent midichannel, timing and tracklength on each track (polyryhthmic patterns!)
  • 100 patterns to save and load in realtime

See the excellent overview video at top – or marvel as it works with an analog setup, below.

I asked Matthias to explain more about why he thought this was better than other solutions out there. He took a break from adding new functionality – freely-definable scales, note and octave randomization – to answer at some length.

I could edit this, but I think you’d lose some of the personality of this conversation, so here it unedited.

Lets start with some common differences:
- sequencomat is a plain midisequencer. it can only send midi… while most (all?) Ipad seq have a sample browser. That makes them more “standalone”, and thats the main concept of an app. But to me it makes no sense, cause I have my drumracks inside my DAW (Ableton), so to change the sounds I am triggering I just change the note….
- some Ipad seq also have FX section. again this makes no sense to me, cause I can control that in my DAW by Midicontrolchange (CC) or with another page on my Lemur, which gives me more flexibility.

These both features are more a matter of taste, but it points out the difference of a controller integrated in a bigger system or a standalone you can use everywhere but are restricted if it comes to communication.
Now a list of functions most (all?) Ipad seq miss and even most classical hardware midi stepsequencers have not:

- independent steprange (1-16 steps each track) and timing.
technical this means that each track got its own clock section. Musically it means you can do polyrhythmic patterns…ever overlapping and changing. On typical 4 on the floor music this is meaningless…but if you want to go more experimental…. (Moltons (?) Ipad app (that one that syncs) got something simular, based on quater sections, but only for timing, not for steprange)

- independent midichannel on each track with possibility to change during play and saved within the patterns.
technical it was hard to get rid of the midihung that can appear if you change the channel while a note is played….the “note off” (damn midiprotocol) will be send on the new channel…so I had to cut these notes first. but only these notes, not all on this channel! musically it gives you much freedom, cause while in one pattern track 1 can be an epiano in the next pattern it can be a drumrack. (well, with that freedom some confusion can come in)

- stepvalues for velocity are quite a standard…. but I got also stepvalues for octave, note, length, CC, delay, steppropability.
With “octave” and “note” you can give every step another tone to trigger (most classic hardware seq have that), if you use a well organised drumrack, changing the octave will change the drumsound (different BDs all lay on pitch C) and with changing the note you can change the drumtype (e.g. snare on D).
“Length” is also a stepvalue on some hardware stepsequ, but mostly on a discrete scale (1/4 1/2 1), while I have continious scale. You can set the maximum on the maxpatch for better fine control ranging from 1-16 steps.
You can furthermore control 8 CC-values – each track has one attached, they are boundend in timing and steprange, but not in meaning. You can set the Midichannel and Controllernumber of those independent and – guess what – these are saved within the patterns…so again a lot of freedom in routing.

With “delay” you can delay each step in triggering and therefore create a groove. Swing would be to delay every second step. But you can go much more in detail… cause you can also control the amount of delay for each step. The predefined range is 0 – -50msec, but you can set it to whatever (-2000msec?) on the maxpatch for more experimental settings. The delay of a step is also reflected in the steplight, giving you a visual impression of the groove.
With Steppropability you can set some activated steps to only be triggered in lets say 30% and therefore create some variation of your pattern. Each step independent on each track, all saved within the patterns. The stepvalues reflect more “unlikeliness”, cause the higher they are the more unlikely it is that the tone will be playsed (if set at all in the stepmatrix – sure). The unlikeliness values are compared with a random value that is triggered on 16th, 8th, 4th, 1 bar, 2 bar or 4 bars. Setting this to higher values will cause the same variation several times before changing. To give you visual feedback of the actual propability status (on/off) there are little LEDs on each step: If they are off – no tone.

- stepvalues for velocity, length, CC, delay got a “range” control on the left side. So you can control the range (e.g. 40-66 instead of 0-127) while the relative difference of the stepvalues still work. So you can fade in velocity…. Of course, that range is also saved within the patterns, independent for each track.

- stepvalues for velocity, length and CC got a randomfunction you can switch on for each step independently (!!!!). so if you want the velocity on step5 of track2 to variate, just push the little switch under the stepvalues. Or the length of step9 on track3? Or both? Or all? Every time those marked stepvalues are triggered they generate a new value. But remember – the output will ever stay within the range. (which makes a random much more usefull than plain 0-127) With this function you can surf on the border between total control and random. Thats what I love as an artist….discovering this border of controlled random. And this stepwise random is really a bomb…it makes this static thing “alive”!

- single or multiple track editing. Normally you step through the tracks and choose a function. But what if you want to change the values of more than one track at once? No prob, switch to multiple track editing, choose more than one track (chosen tracks become red) and all values you enter will be routed to all tracks. (Funny, but this concept is not common sense…maybe because with mutliple track editing you can get no more feedback – what should be displayed if the values differ?) So you can change tempo or steprange of different tracks at once (nice breaks). Or fade in the velocity of a couple of tracks with the range object. Or the CCs (!). Or even the propability if you set the random value to “manual”, this will cause fading in the “density” of a pattern.

- all of this saved within 100 patterns handled in realtime. jumps are done immediately giving you a good feel for interacting. But you can also activate a “automatic pattern chain”, like play pattern 2, 3, 4. In random order or reverse? No prob. Jumping on 1/4 bar – 1/2 bar – 1 bar – 2 bar – 4bar….your choice. You can also “exclude” single tracks from pattern jumping if you want.

-step and track mute – independent from patterns for breaks…

-a X/Y pad for controlling a CC on each axis and /or triggering notes (vertical velocity, horizontal speed (syncable!)) all with nice ranges attached to the borders to control the min and max output.

-and finally 3 clock options: master, slave, rewire.
I had rewire only first on V1 but never was satisfied with the results. Especially Abletons Midiclock (using it as master or as rewiremaster) was f***ing bad. As long as you do not reach 50% CPU power it is ok, but after that it turns unstable…sure, these are only Milliseconds…but damn, they call it “Live” !! Some of my users told me, that Cubase is much better. But I decided to build my own clock. I did not rely on max standard clock, I build it from scratch…with very nice results. Now all users confirm, that my clock as master is the most stable one. (I still find it confusing….me building a better clock than Ableton?… the background might be, that ableton drops the clock first before they drop audio, while on my maxpatch the clock has the highest priority)

So – cocky or not – if it comes to plain stepsequencing, SequencomatV3 eats them all ;)

In a future update I will rework the pitch section: Octaves and Notes will be defined by the user. that means scales instead of 12tones each Octave. not only major or minor…nooooo…. free defineable scales – you just enter your keynote and the halftone steps. And for sure – then the random-stepvalue-switches makes also sense and will be there (I cutted it on octave and not only because it sounds so inharmonic on 12 tones)

An essential ingredient in getting all of this to work – a Max/MSP patch works with functionality back on your desktop host.

Okay, that’s all well and good and fantastic – but the Lemur is now discontinued. So I was curious what Matthias’ plans were – would he consider a future beyond the Lemur?

Yes, sure. But not the Ipad.
I thought about going on it…. my core engine is done in max, so why not make a touchOSC surface? Because TouchOSC (as great as it is) is generations behind the Lemur. Not only physics…hey, I do not use physics in my sequencer… but many control objects are missing (range!), leds are not handled in vectors (as far as I get it), there is no light interaction independent from on/off state, no moveable containers (well, I think in the last version they added this, not sure) and so on…. so it will not be simpley changing some paths in the maxpatch – if so I would have been already there, kickin some ass – it will be completely reconstruct everything.
And I do not want to do that if I then have to sell it for 10$. This pricetag of apps makes the Ipad unattrative to me. Not because I am a greedy guy, but because it isn´t worth it. Most users need support for their midisetup. Even this support will be more effortfull than 10$. And furthermore there is still that bidirectional communication issue. The Ipads WiFi can handle over 1500 values each pattern in realtime? Hahahaha…lol, never. It is not made for that.

So instead of competing with all these Apps, I think of giving my Sequencomat a control surface directly in Max and wait for more and more touchscreens coming to couple with any PC or Mac. Just as a 2nd monitor. As my sequencomat never was ment as a standalone, this fits much better. But we will see…this will not happen within the next half year. See, I am so happy that I have my dreamsequencer here… after the next update I will chill and make some music again. Because this is something I missed all the last 1 1/2 years… having time and energy for making music again and not only coding…. (and this is also a reason, why the music in my demovideos is a bit uninspired or boring…)

I’m way over my word quota, so I’m going to leave it at that. But while sometimes I actually prefer a simpler touch device, even I think the guy has some good points here. Keep in mind that we’re talking the combination of the touch layout, the touch hardware, and then the software on the host. The iPad could certainly accomplish a lot of this (though not over an Ethernet cable), and we should assume the iPad is, in the long view, just the leading edge of a large wave of tablets.

So – discuss.

http://www.tonvibration.de/SequencomatV3.html

  • http://www.feihstel.com Michi

    I never understood why most iPad music apps try to force you to use their crappy sample library. I want a dedicated sequencer that just sends midi – You said it: The tools and instruments i work with are in my DAW. I'm still looking for an app i can use as sequencer to trigger my NI Battery instance (which doesn't feature an integrated sequencer) and haven't been able to find anything decent. TouchOSC with LiveControl sort of does it, but it is very basic and only works in Live (I prefer Logic, though a good solution would move me back to Live).

    Do you have any solutions for that problem? Am I missing an app?

  • Peter Kirn

    Well, the question is whether you're "forced" to use that sample library or not. Some apps – and many of the ones I've covered – do let you mute their sound and transmit MIDI or OSC to another sound source, which is what's happening here.

    That said, I always liked the idea of creating a single, self-contained musical structure. Maybe these don't quite do it for you, but that still seems to me to be a worthy goal. There's enough horsepower on these machines for a lot of musical systems, if not all of them.

  • loopstationzebra

    .."indeed, he argues iPad apps are falling further behind – and he makes a good case for that. So hardware and software designers, take note.

    "

    They are falling behind because no one really gives a shit. Yet. There's absolutely nothing that Sequencomat can do that couldn't be done with a phenominal iPad sequencer app. It's just a matter of WILL.

  • Peter Kirn

    Nooooooo… we're not going to start piling on iPad app developers, many of whom release their work for a couple of bucks if not entirely free. ;)

    Like your bartender, be a *little* nice to your local programmer, then calmly explain the right way to make a mint julep.

    Keep in mind how long it took Lemur developers to make their creations. It was four or so years into the Lemur thing that we really saw mature creations. Time is the main variable. And to me, it's what's beautiful about music, that you *can* spend extended amounts of time obsessing over something and making it better, because you care deeply about it and because large time commitments are often enjoyable in themselves. It's true of practicing an instrument, and it's true of the practice of software, musical or otherwise.

  • http://music-interface.com mat

    Hey,

    first of all, thank you Peter for posting my work :)

    And I totally agree – do not upbraid the Ipad developers! They might have just started… I bought my Lemur in 2008 and began to develop sequencers in 2009. To give you some insight – it took me 3 month fulltime to develop basic V3.0, not mentioning the time before developing V1 and V2 or the updates to V3.2 (again 3 months fulltime!). So we will see how far they get within the next years…

    I also agree, that it would be nice (and possible) to have a sequencer doing both: being a standalone app and a communicator. But I fear thats a to big job for developers, because communication is not so easy as it might look to some (please, believe me) and a standalone app sure also got its challenges. Will there be developers willing to do that and fast enough to make it before the Ipad itself becomes a part of history (as the Lemur is now)? This is really a problem in our days, hardware changes quickly, and software (content) is mostly hardware dependent.

    If it comes to an Ipad, I do not think that it will be ever fast enough in bidirectional communication to handle a patch like mine. And I am not sure if an Ipad-app (handle something like my maxpatch internal) is really fast and stable enough – we will see….

  • FVH

    Peter, I totally agree. There are too many people out there who will just start having a go at the "good-for-nothing" programmers that can't output anything "useful," while these same people are just sitting back and not creating anything "useful" themselves. Let alone if you dared ask a fee for a program!

    I used to own a Lemur and tried out the sequencomat. Mattias is seeeeriously knowledgable and a very, very nice and helpful person. He's been working on the sequencomat for a very long time, and it's come really far. 

    I don't own an ipad yet, but hope to get one soon. I'm personally really excited about multi-touch and where it's going to go. 

    It still has a far way to go, but there's no need to grumble and be rude about where we are now. 

    Then get up, do something, build something better. 

  • Andreas Wetterberg

    People were moaning very early on "oh, but cheap tablets are just around the corner".

    Many lemur users then got several years of one-upping everyone else because they dared to invest.

    And as Mat rightly argues, we still do, to an extent.

    The communication with a lemur is just lightning fast, and the bandwidth is there. 

    And there will be more things coming out for the Lemur soon enough. I know for a fact that there'll be MaxForLive content flowing soon.   …

  • this is all we need

    Honestly this is what needs to be done for an ipad app. Something like this within one of the other programs that i've seen on the ableton forums.

    I agree with whoever said that it will just take time. ipad will get faster and more capable. People will make better apps and they will be a great additional tool.

  • tchan

    matt's sequencomat and antonio blanca's reaktor patches are the ONLY reason i haven't sold my lemur. admittedly i have lots to learn and need to seriously work on my production chops to actually use these tools properly…but i'm optimistic i'll get there one day! lol!

  • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Plyci/7380504415 Plyci

    An excellent piece! Being a lemur owner it nice to see people like Mat getting credit for all there hours of hard work. The lemur IS a very special instrument, takes time and patience to get the most out of it. Im considering getting an ipad myself but not for musical purposes, all the music apps seem gimmicky and tied down to certain protocols and host software. Its sad that they couldn't find a way to keep the lemur going because its instruments like the sequencomat that show how truly powerful it was, I personally doubt we will see anything as powerful on the ipad, unless there is a huge change of attitude towards musical flexibility and freedom. The culture of making apps for 59p wont help that either. I prefer to pay a bit more and get something truly musical which i can adapt and use in whatever way i want, which is why I bought a Lemur in the first place.    

  • RichardL

    "I always liked the idea of creating a single, self-contained musical structure."

    @Peter 

    I too am a big fan of self-contained musical instruments. They are a nice complement to the essential attributes of a mobile device like the iPad. But I have to wonder if the bar isn't being raised too high for many independent developers trying to participate. It's also resulting a vast landscape of insular music apps.

    Desktop music production has benefited immensely from modular tools and structures. Sure the pendulum swings both ways between plug-ins and buss protocols and then back to integrated suites. But it's hard to argue that many advances in the state of the art of electronic music production haven't come from focused special purpose plug in instruments, effects or hosts. 

    In contrast, modular music software is pretty much impossible on iPad unless you make the jump off of a single device. At that point a lot of the advantages of mobile devices get lost in a maze of cables and protocols. We are left with is less-capable copies of what has been possible for many years with TablePCs and Lemurs. 

    Perhaps the popularity of iPad as a music production tool will create a critical mass that eventually lifts these familiar networked tablet architectures to transcend their predecessors. But I suspect  the impediments to modular structures may limit the platform until a major player like Apple or NI moves in with the resources to produce an integrated solution that dominates the device.

  • loopstationzebra

    When I said that no one gives a shit, I meant the electronic musician community at large. With the exception of myself and about maybe a half dozen other regulars at this site, who else is bitching about lack of MIDI / mega powerful sequencers, etc? Nobody. lol.

    I will say this, though, the Konkreet Performer app has just been released and it's a true ray of hope and sunshine. :) If Konkreet labs keeps this up, they'll be leading the way in terms of amazing controllers/sequencers with all the Lemur inspired bells and whistles – including physics modeling for throws and such.

  • loopstationzebra

    @mat. You wrote "If it comes to an Ipad, I do not think that it will be ever fast enough in bidirectional communication to handle a patch like mine."

    What is the max number of control messages/values that the Camera Connection Kit can handle vs the Lemur ethernet connection? Can't say as I've seen any hard data. ?

  • http://music-interface.com mat

    @ loopstationzebra

    I do not know how many data the Ipad can communicate in realtime. In case of my sequencomat the number is over 1500 values each pattern now (V3.2) and will be over 2000 in the upcoming V3.3. I have a maximum delay of 2msec. I heard from a guy who tested Ipad WiFi connection with a ping, that it takes 30msec. A single ping. But I haven´t done these test on my own and it only was WiFi….

    We have to see that fast bidirectional communication is not the major intend of the Ipad, while it is the major thing on the Lemur. (The major intend of the Ipad is to surf in the internet, have little apps and games…and thats great!… for these reasons I think myself about getting one…)

  • loopstationzebra

    With wifi vs ethernet those results are to be expected. But over the CCK/USB? I've yet to see any test results; on either quantity of data or delay/speed. But it'll be much faster than wifi, lol.

  • Big Ting A Gwaan

    For the money I would want midi slop measurements whilst in full use, most tracks, entering new steps, deleting steps, changing menus etc etc, including setting delay steps for groove

    how solid/precise is the output ? For 180 euro that should surely be a selling point.

    Also, the users who gave feedback on the sequencomat site: did they pay for sequencomat ? full price ?

    Cheers

  • http://music-interface.com mat

    @ BigTingAGwaan

    I know that the price reflects a premium product and might shock some people (especially compared with Ipad apps). And your question is absolut valid! But I play with open cards, as you can see here: http://www.tonvibration.de/SequencomatV3_main.htm… (I wish all developers will document their accuracy!) However, as some aspects might depend on your personal setup, I put a lot of effort in personal support (which is also part of the price) and if I ever will get a user who do not get a stable and reliable system, he will get his money back. (Cause unsatisfied customers are the worst case in this nische business anyway)

    The mentioned users in the feedback section were part of my beta-tester crew (thanks to them by the way!). So they didn´t pay, but gave feedback, made videos and also screenshots of time accuracy on different systems (that was the deal) However… till now I got not a single user unsatisfied (believe it or read the Lemur forum) :)

    all the best*mat

  • Big Ting A Gwaan

    Hi

    regarding the feedback, well it's not a surprise but thanks for confirming my suspicions.

    The majority of devs who provide those type of quotes have paid for them with free licenses. The devs that use actual paying customers quotes are much fewer, but I don't think it's a coincidence that their product is very high calibre. Sonic Charge springs to mind.

    Regarding the timing, well the 'time shift' isn't as important as the slop/jitter/stability – however you want to phrase it.

    it's quite easy to get good results when you only use the most very basic aspect of the sequencer being tested. One track outputting a single 4/4 beat.

    For a meaningful test it needs to be tested in 'real life usage' … that means multi tracks, if not all tracks. Swing/step-delay, entering/deleting steps live, changing velocity, switching menu pages. Etc etc.

    Typically speaking it's when you start interacting with the sequencer that the slop/instability occurs and only the best maintain consistent results no matter what is done. Sadly, your test doesn't seem to reflect real-life usage, not in the slightest I'm afraid. But that's not to say you haven't tested it in such a way, surely you have, you just haven't published the results.

    I would appreciate those kinds of results before spending that kind of money.

  • http://music-interface.com mat

    @ BigTingAGwaan

    well, as I made the feedback section/manual when starting selling I could only make it with my beta-testers ;) However, positive comments where not part of my deal with them!

    Regarding testing:

    Please feel free to test the FREE DEMO (I forgot to mention): http://forum.jazzmutant.com/viewtopic.php?t=3102
    And of course I made tests in real performance, full interaction and above 4 on the floor. It is just easier to compare the different clocktypes visually on that 4/4. The interesting thing is that the performance does not differ on Sequencomat if you use simple 4/4 or complex polyrhythm patterns (got something to do with the structure, but this will lead to far into the bunnywhole here)

  • Big Ting A Gwaan

    I'll try the demo, but it's kind of limited (obviously)

    - it got only 4 instead of 8 tracks

    - no patterns

    - no CC and rollpad

    I would intend to use all 8 tracks, patterns, CC and Rollpad – live – and would expect the slop/jitter/stability to be consistent whilst interacting with the sequencer in every way.

    before spending 180 euro I would want some kind of confirmation one way or the other on what the slop/jitter/stability figures whilst using the sequencer to it's full advertised potential. So, maybe problems will be evident in the demo, maybe not. But certainly it's possible nothing shows up in the demo that is plain to see in the full 180 euro version.

    So can you provide such results or make a statement one way or the other in this regard ?

  • http://music-interface.com mat

    Hmmm, did I get it right… you tested the demo version and are satisfied? Now you doubt the full version???

    Well…normally the demoversion is to get rid of doubts ;) It is a cut of V3.1 and follows the same principles and timing structure. And of course it is restricted! (Otherwise it would be unfair to my customers) The timing is the same on the full version. And till now no user ever got problems with timing…

    Maybe you can send me a mail with some screenshots of accuracy on your system and a detailed description of your hard- and software setup…. however, I understand that 180 euro is an invest, so maybe one of the many free sequencers on the Lemur would be the right choice for you – they sure do not go so much into detail but are great machines too:
    http://www.jazzmutant.com/lemuruser_moduledetailshttp://www.jazzmutant.com/lemuruser_moduledetailshttp://www.jazzmutant.com/workshop_templateslist….
    Please test them, cause sometimes the easier control fits more to users need and as Peter said, there is something attractive in small patches (no joke or ironic)

  • Big Ting A Gwaan

    no you misunderstood,

    I haven't used the demo yet. I will.

    What I'm saying is – the more activity within the sequencer, the more likely it is to produce jitter/slop/instability. When I check out the demo, all I can see is how the timing will be if I operate in these circumstances:

    - only 4 instead of 8 tracks

    - no patterns (no saving/changing patterns 'on the fly')

    - no CC and rollpad

    I understand english isn't your native tongue, but really what I'm asking isn't that hard to grasp.

    When using the full version, to it's full advertised potential, in a real-life-usage scenario (that means lots of on-the-fly interaction of all functions on all tracks), what kind of jitter/slop/instability can be expected ?

    I guess the simplest way of putting it is:

    Can you can guarantee that there will be no difference between the full version and the demo version in terms of midi jitter/slop/instability ?

  • http://music-interface.com mat

    Indeed, english is not my mother tongue ;) And I just read to fast to register your "I will test", sorry. But beneath that little fault, I get your main question and already answered it! ("The timing is the same on the full version. And till now no user ever got problems with timing")

    It just seems to me that you are not willing to trust…. and thats something I can´t help. You do not trust the comments of my users here, you do not trust my reputation on the Lemur forum, you do not trust in what I am saying all the time or in the bunch of videos showing live performances… and that even before trying the demo… arent you a bit to sceptic? ;)

    Regarding guaranty: No, I can not guaranty that it works the same with every setup. Thats a main thing of communication: you depend on other tools and their performance…so test the demo with your setup….if you are still interested after the test, write me a mail. Thats all I can do for you.

  • Big Ting A Gwaan

    The setup is a constant.

    It will be the exact same setup using the demo as using the full version.

    So do you still refuse to promise that the midi slop/jitter/instability won't increase from what is experienced in the demo version ?

    Do you have that faith in your product or not ?

    Besides – and unless I'm mistaken, there are no users here speaking about midi jitter.

    So there are no comments to 'trust' in that regard.

  • Big Ting A Gwaan

    "So do you still refuse to promise that the midi slop/jitter/instability won’t increase from what is experienced in the demo version ?"

    by that I mean, increase in the full version – using all the extra features.

  • http://music-interface.com mat

    aaaaaaarrrrrgh!

    READ: "The timing [of the demo] is the same on the full version. And till now no user ever got problems with timing"

    But you don´t have to care. I won´t sell it to you after that kind of useless discussion – at least, this is my freedom. Bye.

  • Big Ting A Gwaan

    Hmmm still avoiding the crux of my question though.

    between the price tag, and the phoney user feedback, and the reluctance to go indepth on midi slop… I think I'll pass.

    Numerology FTW.

  • Frank

    must-have if you are using the lemur, there isn't iPad app like that either…..
    http://www.jazzmutant.com/lemuruser_moduledetails

  • griotspeak

    @big ting a gwaan – not that this is my business, but he really did speak to your question. Besides the comments, he wrote a clock to address timing issues, so it should be obvious that this is a priority. 

    It really does not sound like you wanted to give it a shot.

  • Big Ting A Gwaan

    Not really, when he finally attempted to answer the question directly he went all melodramatic and said he wouldn't sell it to me anyways.

    The timing tests published are pointless, and he's reluctant to give solid, concise promises or guarantees regarding midi slop.

    It's not that hard. On the exact same system will the slop experienced in the demo be the same as in the 180 euro full version. He won't give a straight answer to that, and will instead refuse to sell it to the person who asks that question.

    Plus the phoney userfeedback. Plus the false claims that users were speaking of midi slop here. Plus the melodrama.

    All I can conclude is that the full version has more midi instability than the demo.

    And yes, it's none of your business.

    Frank – that's an exceptional template. How much does it cost ? :P

  • http://music-interface.com mat

    OK, what is so difficult to understand on the sentence: "The timing [of the demo] is the same on the full version." Isn´t that clear enough for you???

    For the record, I put a lot of effort in testing stability – with full version and demo, with all tracks and different clock divisions on track, with random values and without, while live interacting and while playback, on Mac and PC, with different software and hardware (thats why I needed some beta tester, who were so kind to allow me to post their comments, but that was not part of the deal to get the license, so to call it phoney is really hard). At all over 40 users are out there and no one ever reported problems – on timing or what else. I have a free demo version I offer you to try, but instead you dare to piss into my soup? You are nothing but an anonymous troll. And I do not sell to guys like you, cause afterwards you pi your pants cause the patch can not cook coffee. You will never get satisfied, thats your personal problem, not mine.

    And as I see on your last question, you know even nothing about the Lemur, cause every user knows that patch (which is great) and it is FREE. (as most of my patches also btw)

    @ all

    sorry I responded to that guy. I first though he mean it serious… Thats a problem on the web, I am a gentle person most of the time, but sometimes you meet people who really do not deserve your time and friendliness. Even not for 180 ;)

  • bsyndrome

    You handled it well, considering. 

  • big ting a gwaan

    there is nothing difficult to understand about that sentence, what I asked for was clarification. The tests you published on your site are completely pointless and virtually nothing useful can be derived from them. so excuse me for asking for clarification – it should hardly be seen as such a trying question to justify your melodrama. It's barely more than a YES or NO question. By the time you managed to give it you were blowing a gasket.

    The feedback is phoney, because it's not apparent if they are paying customers or not. What a coincidence that they are using free licenses – and that you don't state as much on your website. This is information that is now only apparent after I asked. and whilst you may not have overtly asked for permission to publish their positive comments, it's simple irrefutable human nature that if you get something for FREE than your expectations are lowered and your judgement is much more forgiving. You pay 180 euro and you're going to have higher standards. That's just human nature.

    Anyway you can call me an anonymous troll if you like, but you are a troll yourself so I don't feel so insulted.

    As for Antonio's lemur template… of course I know it's free. You seem to have A LOT of problems picking up on subtleties and nuance. That's why emoticons were invented I suppose, but you don't even seem to get the hint when I use those.

    Pretty poor show here. Asking for clarification shouldn't devolve into this. Laughable that I'm labelled the troll here.

  • big ting a gwaan

    and anyone even dreaming of spending money with this cretin should seriously look into Numerology first. It works with OSC these days too.

    A much more sophisticated sequencer, a much nicer developer, and by far a better way to spend your money.

  • griotspeak

    Peace, Love, and Soul.

  • dd

    @btag: what is your problem? he said he'll give a full refund to anyone who is unsatisfied. if you buy it and your "suspicions" are correct, you will get your money back and no harm is done.

    why you are trying to make the guy out to be some sort of shady character is beyond me. the person who's coming across negatively is you.

  • big ting a gwaan

    dd – do you own a lemur ? did you pay 180 for this sequencer ?

    NO to both questions I'm guessing.

  • http://music-interface.com mat

    lol….you don´t give up "btag", don´t you?

    Well, I am still not sure if YOU own a Lemur,

    so just in case you do – I posted a thread in the Lemur forum about this article: http://forum.jazzmutant.com/viewtopic.php?t=3286

    As I have nothing to hide, feel free to post your anger there. But warning: you might meet many users who do not share your attitude.

  • Big Ting A Gwaan

    I'm not the angry one, you are. I just pressed for clarification and by the time I received it you had thrown your toys out of the pram.

    It's all up there in black & white.

  • Subetei

    Matt Rocks!

    His creation is awesome and worth every euro cent. He has been patient and helpful, available and did not push me at all to buy it. Big TAG go read some other places where Matt posts maybe you'll learn something about being polite, something you can aspire to, because i am sure in your wildest dreams you could not create anything i would pay you 180 euro for.

  • Big Ting A Gwaan

    ….

    Emotive, fanatic, irrational.

    It's been a sad show here, the guy can't handle being transparent about midi slop. No paying customers have posted to confirm on that issue either. As well as being a petulant brat in the face of mild, so so mild, scrutiny he has tried summoning someone – anyone – from the jazzmutant forum to join this post and spank my bottom on his behalf.

    What's with all this child's play bullshit ?

    From his reluctance to assure the midi slop from the demo is the same as the full app – I can only assume the full app is sloppier when used, live, to it's advertised potential.

    Mat has had lots of opportunity here to use & provide emperical data to answer me utterly simple, and totally relevant question. Has overlooked that opportunity in favour of acting like a scorned child, trolling & name calling.

    On the topic of templates popularity, you need only check out the sequencomat thread over at jazzmutant. There's about 5 or so people talking about it. There's much more buzz, deservedly so, for other templates. Which incidentally don't cost a small fortune.

    So, given that the full template is probably sloppier than the demo when using it live; it seems to me that the template would be nice for generating loops. That ain't no 180 euro worth of template for loop generation. I don't care if he coded it using only his left foot to operate his keyboard. The sheer amount of time he put into it doesn't determine it's value.

    As a live tool, having sensible timing tests published in relation to midi-slop during real-life-usage is a MUST. That failing, a simple guarantee that – on the same exact system – the midi slop experienced in the demo is the same as in the full, one hundred and eighty euros, template.

    All I can do is recommend to people that they use their Lemur sensibly. Spend your money with a smarter, more approachable, more productive, forward thinking developer and choose a sequencer like Numerology by Five 12. And control it with your Lemur. Which is what our Lemur's were designed for. Numerology even uses OSC.

    Or, spend 180 euro with a petulant dev for his max patch (should have chosen reaktor if tight timing was a priority) who starts foaming at his mouth when pressed gently on the issue of midi slop… prior to purchase. A guy so petulant he'd rather say 'no, you can't have it' than properly answer a pertinent question that he himself already conceded is vital information for this kind of tool.

    Tool.

  • http://music-interface.com mat

    btag, you are such a shady hater…and everyone here knows it apart from you….but "big mouth don´t make a big man"

    At all who would rather believe that troll than me – test the demo – and write me an email if you are interested in the full version. It is up to you….

    I do care about my users and as long as THEY got no problems, everything is ok. :)

  • Subetei

    Big TAG ….GET A LIFE…lol…don't you have anything better to do than rant on this older by the minute article?

    Are you saving the world from "Evil Matt" who spamming friends to post way down here so he can steal Lemur peoples money?

    Is someone like Numerology paying YOU to write these verbose opinions?

    Listen pal, save your money and rant midi-slop as much as you like… Then Hit a coffee shop in Amsterdam and chill or if you are ever in Buenos Aires or Harlem NYC you can have my stash i took a hiatus 'cause i am too busy trying to concentrate on using Matt's creation to "Create Digital Music." (wow dude, imagine that?)

  • Big Ting A Gwaan

    both of those posts are beneath me and don't warrant much response, just more namecalling troll-bait bullshit. Sad.

    but I do get a tickle out of that half-wit reprobate chastising me for posting on this blog entry.

    Irony, it's a blast.

  • Big Ting A Gwaan

    and by the way, to any potential customers, simply make him promise – guarantee – you that the midi slop you experience in the demo will be the same as in the 180euro version.

    That's not asking for much.

  • Peter Kirn

    Okay, that's about enough of that.

    Take it outside. Seriously. Someone has to stop this conversation; this isn't the place for it, and it's not a good use of anyone's time. If it continues, I'll delete further comments.

  • Big Ting A Gwaan

    or just save yourself the time & effort and mosey on over to five12.com

    You'll thank me later.

  • http://music-interface.com/ mat

    ….about 3 month later.

    Just to let you know:

    I made that update with definable scales and dropped price to 99,- (cause there will be no future development)

    I also published new timing tests under full load – all perfect! I swear/guarantee that the timing of the free demo is the same as on full version.

    cheers*mat