Kore is dead; long live … Maschine.

Native Instruments announced this week that they’re discontinuing the Kore product line, focusing those energies on the host-plus-sampling groovebox Maschine.

Kore was an approach to making instruments and processing more manageable and tactile, coupling a hardware interface and standard control mappings with a hosting tool. What first drew me to Kore, personally, was the idea of setting up that host not only as a way of managing presets and the like, but building performance rigs and making them tactile. (I used a number of Kore-based rigs in the production of my recent album.) CDM also, as disclosure and reference, collaborated with Native Instruments to document uses of Kore and the rest of their line on our Kore minisite.

The free Kore Player is immediately discontinued, a casualty of the decision, and you won’t be able to buy Kore. The good news for Kore users is, a set of updates accompany the announcement:

First, an update with the latest sound engines. Schedule: third quarter.

Next, 64-bit support for Mac and Windows. Schedule: fourth quarter.

That would make Kore continue to be useful. Here’s the bad news, however: “Future versions of the Komplete bundle and of individual NI instruments might no longer be fully compatible with Kore, and will not include special preset versions for its sound browser.”

Instead, Maschine, not Kore, will get a free update that incorporates new preset management and parameter mapping features – Maschine now does some of what Kore did. But Maschine doesn’t yet offer some of the other unique features of Kore in terms of its utility functions and modules, its slim, slick touch-based interactive controller, and its performance setup.

To me, it looks like a decision that makes sense – but one that will also be tough for users to swallow. The maintenance updates to Kore are offset by potential incompatibility with future Komplete releases. And while there’s a crossgrade, it’s not inexpensive, because Maschine, too, relies on hardware for control. Through the end of the year, Maschine is US$449 (EUR399). I’d like to see Native Instruments, which recently underwent corporate restructuring, focus more closely on their software range to avoid these kinds of discontinuations. Even when they’re the right choice, they can be tough for users. It’s a particular challenge for a developer like NI that has always released a range of products instead of one flagship. NI, for their part, also tells CDM it was a difficult decision to make.

What made Kore unique also made it hard to support from the beginning: its ambitious combinations of hosting and engine integration features made it development-heavy. So the genuinely good news here is that NI is more focused on one tool, and that’s Maschine – a product that has been both more popular and more (frankly) well-liked than Kore was.

And that makes me unambiguously enthusiastic about the choice. Some things simply have to come to an end. The really important thing here is that this redirects development resources into Maschine, and Maschine becomes NI’s flagship host instead of the two competing with one another.

CDM spoke to NI’s Constantin Köhncke about the decision for more detail.

CDM: What does it mean for Maschine that Maschine, and not Kore, is now Native Instruments’ focus? We’ll see greater hosting features, I see; is there anything you can comment on specifically?

NI: Yes, among other features, the hosting features of Maschine will be expanded. As you are aware, the free 1.6 update already brought the hosting of VST/AU plug-ins into Maschine and 1.7 will see more advanced browsing and parameter mapping for NI instruments and effects.

Given that Maschine is now a host to a lot of people, how would you even categorize the application — it seems broader than what was first released?

Maschine is referred to as an integrated groove production system that now combines a pattern-based sequencer, professional sampler, multi-effect unit and VST/AU plug-in host.

It seems like Kore has had a big impact on the other product lines, as
well. Care to comment in terms of what Kore has contributed to other software?

Most prominently, the category browsing and parameter mapping concepts from Kore were integrated in individual NI instruments.

To put it another way, what would you say NI has learned from Kore?

Kore has been a very complex and ambitious undertaking in terms of the architecture, the hardware integration, and the various usability and data management concepts, so learnings in all these regards were applied for current products like Maschine and Kontrol S4.

Post comment as twitter logo facebook logo
Sort: Newest | Oldest

Native Instruments are the chicken-with-its-head-cut-off of the audio industry.

One day the abandon Reaktor, then five years later, they decide to update it. One day they decide to centralize all their efforts into a lame software-hardware combo called Kore, then years later, they abandon it. NI executives have no clue what they are doing.. in the meanwhile other software and hardware compannies like Ableton and novation are eating their lunch. Expect some more copycat lameness from the brillant minds at NI

NI is failing to realize that some of us program our music and rarely use maschine... while my maschine is great I only use it for my drums and firing samples in logic.....the software for maschine has limited control and to be honest, is a half assed looping software and it doesnt even properly interface with logic... not having access to Kore, or as a planned to buy, deep freq, is the worst.  I have lost faith in NI... what are they doing?

yup! Dont think ill be buying any else from this company! and the sale for current kore users and 3 free kore packs!? well that didnt work when i went to buy! just didnt work when i put in my vouchers! Buggy, just like there updates process!

I have use Kore 2 for about 3 years to compose music for the videos I make. It has been the centre of my suite driven through various versions of Sonar producer. When I upgraded to X1 at the beginning of the year, I (foolishly) did  a series of NI updates at the same time. The combination destabilised my system completely. Kore crashed whilst trying to load, asking me to send the crash log to NI. I did this but got no more than a acknowledgement of receipt for more than 6 weeks. In the interim, after several days of frustrating experimentation I solved the problem, which was to do with plugins. 

I was deeply concerned about the lack of support from NI which had left me dead in the water.

More recently, I have had another problem when Kontact 4 was not even seen by Kore 2 standalone. Now I felt it was time to reduce my reliance on NI products, feeling that service would not be forthcoming. After several attempts to re-install Kore to sort the problem failed , I have left it unistalled. I find that most of what I want from Kore can be got via the knobs on my PCR800 keyboard which seems well integrated with Kontakt.

With this experience, I was not surprised to see support withdrawn from Kore. Will crossgrade to Maschine ? Hmmmmmm!!

I sold a perfectly good Korg Radius and MS2K to become a Kore/NI synth user and now this!

I want my #$&!ing money back !!!

D@&% IT !!!

As a recent Kore 2 & Komplete user I love how it makes it easy to create interesting sounds without a degree in synthesis and it's browsing capabilities. Several issues stand out for me. From a NI customer point of view I was considering maschine but the sudden nature of the Kore announcement coupled with far from the greatest support leaves a certain amount of distrust for the NI brand. From an amateur music maker point of view, well if I can still use the product and it gets 64bit support great. From a gear-head point of view I'm sure there will be some other spangly bit of equipment from some other manufacturer around the corner to get me salivating and forget about Kore. From a creative point of view if Kore goes kaput then I'll have to find another way to work which is both annoying and exciting. At the end of the day products become redundant creativity doesn't. I certainly think NI could have handled this situation better but I couldn't say I wouldn't ever use them again, who knows what sparkly, knob-filled, sonic weapons are around the corner.

Kore 1 scared me off buying any future NI hardware.

Their software is great, but finding drivers for Kore 1 for Windows 7 is a real PITA. 

It's easy to be concerned but the reality of it is people are missing the real point.

Maschine maps to KORE and has more control so integrating the KORE functions into Maschine will yield a much better product.

Those of us that have both Maschine and KORE already understand or see the advantages of the direction.

Running KORE inside of Maschine as a VI is pretty nice but being able to do that without using a plug slot will be nice.

3rd times the charm for me.  I may continue updating Komplete but there are other companies out there (Spectrasonics to name one) that have treated their user-base with a bed side manner that would put Patch Adams to shame.  

It will be a long time until I trust NI again.  Money's hard to make in this industry currently and my funds have helped spur on a company that obviously has less scruples than I do.  

If they had come out with an update allowing the Kore controllers to be auto mapped to their other instruments or anything (aside from a meager discount on Maschine) that showed me they had a heart-felt frustration with this decision, I might have a different heart as well.  

~C

I feel sorry for those who have invested money and time into this product.

@urbster1: Actually, ew, the person who asserted that 'Kore is far from being dead' as mentioned in the blog you linked to was never an NI employee (just a NI user/forum moderator) and was just making a personal assumption. So I would hardly call that "words from NI".

Anyway, latest from NI on the Koresound format:

"Individual instruments that use the KSD format now (Absynth, FM8, Guitar Rig, Massive) will continue to load KSD patches in the future, even after they change to another primary sound file format."
http://co.native-instruments.com/forum/showpost.p...

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet or not but I've realized that one of the last words from NI was that Kore was "far from dead" before this. http://www.plughugger.com/4/post/2011/06/native-i...

Long time reader, first time poster. This fact should indicate my sadness level and total dismay at NI.

Being of little funds, the free Kore Player suited me perfectly. Over time, I could (and did) build up my Soundpack library, of which I own 6. The most recent purchase being 2 weeks ago. Imagine buying something and within a week, being told it’s no longer on the roadmap, its future beyond this year is shaky.

As a musician, the music I collaborate on is not based on beats or melody (though present), but is focused on sound and the atmosphere it creates. With over 100 projects completely reliant on NI Kore “sounds” for their soul and appeal, I am now very disheartened I used my limited funds on this NI product alone.

The double whammy (and insult) is - Being a product owner I receive communications/promotions from NI all the time, just last week they were spruiking new compressors via email, but nothing re “critical news” for products already purchased. I had to read about it here first. I am flummoxed!

I still have emails dated April/May, where NI are spruiking Kore and the many benefits of the integrated sound engines, the production-ready sounds and effects, etc. I am so sad I bought into this, and will be recommending others to move on from NI.

"The knobs on the Maschine controller use the same encoders as those on the Kore controller, and the effective parameter resolution is actually even higher in Maschine."
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showpost....

Im looking into M-audio AXIOM to get some of the tactile and preset patch browsing aspects to use absynth with. ALso my Kore would crash when using the kore patches. It was buggy but I liked it as much as my Kurzweil and SCSI hardware that was also unreliable and buggy, goofy and still working after 20 years! although I was considering buying machine I wont be buying machine now or N.I hardware but Im just going to buy the M-audio gear that looks pretty slick. Will Guitar Rig Kontroller also be ditched to make the hip hop beat makers happy?

I really hope Maschine now dosnt become bloated with upgradeitus!

It's a sampling gearbox that needs a linear track mode, not a do anything box

I understand the ire of Kore users, and while I'm not a Kore user I am an NI customer and Komplete user so wanted to add:

To those saying that Kore soundpacks can't be used without Kore, I've bought several Kore soundpacks and used the presets in their respective application(s) within Komplete. Just a thought on how to mitigate the loss of anything you can't live without...

@substrain: could you point me in the direction of a mention of Kore-like high-resolution knobs on Maschine? I only see a vague mention of high-resolution knobs in the 1.6 press release, but can't seem to find any mention in any of the Maschine manuals. In the Kore manuals, they make a point of saying they have higher-than-midi resolution, but no such claim in the Maschine manuals. I hope my skepticism is wrong!

I love how people say things like "life's a bitch" when you know that you could take something away from those people to get them bitching about life just as much as anyone else. It's easy not to care when you don't care.

Wellllll--Free Kore 2 Player is still available. Hope it stays that way.

Discontinuing the free player is ridiculous. Just because NI doesn't see KORE in their future, doesn't mean current (and future) users cannot continue to enjoy the software and content that currently exists. They should leave it "as is", unsupported but functional.

I cannot emphasize enough how much I HATE Native Instruments for abandoning products like Pro-53 or B-4 and now even KORE. Musicians should not even begin to rely on products that will eventually be dropped by the developer . As a producer and performer I need reliable instruments. This NI-habit is like taking away my favourite guitar without any chance of replacement. Native Instruments? Oh, no! I am so gone!

lifes a bitch.. boo hoo. 

@substrain - I haven't seen many people saying that Maschine isn't a good product. Personally, I love it, but it does lack key features that Kore has. The painful part of this debacle to me is that NI is not making a meaningful effort to transition Kore users onto the Maschine platform in terms of preserving their work and time investment by offering the least amount of disruption to our workflow. $150 crossgrade discount for Maschine? That's pretty weak. I have many hundreds of patches, sounds and projects ranging from entire performance setups contained within Kore, to single instances of Kore as an instrument or effect on a track in my DAW, and everything in between. Some people have thousands of custom Kore patches based on the Komplete family of instruments. All that work is now just a ticking timebomb waiting to ruined by an unavoidable update of something that will break Kore after the last update. The main issue for me is that NI's strategy is to force me to suddenly stop doing exactly what they've been encouraging me to do over the past few years, and move wholesale to a new proprietary format which they will also pull the plug on. It's a bad pattern to perpetuate. You and I are lucky in that we also own Maschine, which eases the transition somewhat, but we are in the minority of Kore users.

As a user of both Maschine and Kore 2, I can understand this decision and NI should be given credit for further maintaining Kore onto 64bit. 

As for Maschine, it represents for me the most forward thinking tool for music production I have ever experienced. It is much more than a "drum machine". It already does some of what Kore does in it's own way such as the ability to create and save your own sounds by stacking plugins, browsing category tagged sounds from the hardware which also has high resolution knobs like Kore...etc. But nothing really comes close to Maschine when it comes to completely eliminating the mouse from the workflow. It's a vast improvement on the Kore controller in that aspect. So, unlike some of the naysayers here, I feel very confident about the assurances NI has made recently about the future of Maschine and the direction it's going in. It looks to have a very bright future ahead.

If NI will add full MIDI CC capability to Maschine (only supports AT, MOD and PITCH now) they can do whatever they want. J/K. I feel bad for those of you who got screwed. I really love Maschine so I guess you could say I have 'schadenfruede'.

I dont know if I feel lucky to not have invested in a lot of soundpacks - or screwed because I cant get them now...

@heinrichz - Im glad your set-up works for you. You understand of course your system is not my way of doing things? My system will work fine as of today - I cant expand it with additional content, Im stuck with the few packs I have (and love) and as soon as my DAW or OS decides, it will never work again.

I sincerely hope Maschine users are paying very, very close attention - the golden egg you are using now (as it is the future and will be integral to NI) is the exact one they are killing for us. Just remember, Kore users were promised the same commitment you are being told you are getting.

Lastly, were the SoundPacks part of the Summer Blowout this year? Shortest blowout ever - and what a blowout!

For those of us that got it recently we've up the creek.  Missed out on picking up the Kore soundpacks.

At the very least, praying they at have/will develop a separate driver to allow the use of the Kore controllers as standalone MIDI devices for use elsewhere, rather than having to have Kore 2.1 installed.

No, heinrichz. That's the point. Kore soundpacks can't be used outside of Kore as far as we've been told. And, again, please stop perpetuating the fallacy that everything that can be done in Kore can be done in Maschine. Not even close. If we ever see the programming functionality of Kore added to Maschine, it will be ages before they get it implemented.

And what's wrong with the Kore controller? I use it more than any other controller I have, including Maschine. As I've said before, the Maschine device is great, but it's a more cumbersome alternative to Kore when you aren't using the pad grid.

just relax people..you can still use you kore packs in the future.

If they can integrate some of the morphing and mixing/routing functions of Kore into Maschine as well..then good riddance.  This ole Kore hardware controller needed to be updated anyway..but there was no point in doing that since we do have Maschine now. Meanwhile it is also important to simplify that product line and unify the sound engines.

With this move NI is doing all of that..

@NI : hear that? it's the sound of the unemployment line.

the community interaction NI guy stated that OSX Lion will be supported but didn't indicate details such as whether that was just the Kore 2 software plug-in/host or if it includes the required 64-bit drivers for the Kore controller hardware units. my understanding is that Lion defaults to 64-bit kernel mode on machines that support it (on which Snow Leopard currently defaults to 32-bit kernel mode).

@carlando - yes. NI is a private company as of recently

Since it's officially discontinued BEFORE OSX 10.7, I wonder if this means we  mac folk are SOL in a month if there's a problem. The announcement seems rushed.

I own Maschine and Kore and as someone said, they are completely different. Kore's approach to managing my plugins, their routing, it's ability to "simplify the complexity" within a comprehensive system for storing, managing, and maintaining my sounds and their variants was liberating. The potential for sound design was / is incredible. And NI did encourage to build their rigs around it, so many did! Now? POOF. They had just dug themselves out of some deep holes from a few years back I thought. Ah well.  Machine is cool. It ain't Kore. Stop trying to spin me like I'm stupid.

Didn’t NI just buy all of their shares back so that they could be a privately owned company?

@apoclypse - No one is begrudging NI the right to make a living, but it isn't melodramatic to take a vendor to task for handling a transition badly and using misleading language to describe their actions. In fact, it is incumbent upon me as an engaged customer to let NI know what they are doing and saying wrong. ie "Maschine picks up right where Kore left off" which is utter nonsense. Among the many reasons that statement is not true is the fact that none of the Kore add on content is transferrable to the new platform. I'm well aware of the technical issues involved, but the very fact that the Kore soundpacks are so intertwined with the larger instrument products whose future update paths will cause them to become unusable, exhibits a notable lack or foresight or downright disregard for loyal customers.

I also find it a bit disrespectful that I wasn't notified of this by the company. Instead yesterday I got some spam from them trying to sell me vintage compressor plugins for Guitar Rig. Now why the fuck at this point would I start investing in yet another proprietary NI FX host?

SIgh. People are so damn melodramatic. As far as I know NI isn't actively going to your computer and removing the software. It will still work. If you bought soundpacks, they will still work. They are even giving you 64-bit support before phasing out the product. However you can't force the company to keep pouring cash into a product they are not making money off of. As a company they are legally obligated to make a profit (for their shareholders). Kore had issues from day one. It was designed badly. The integrated synth engines for example was the biggest mistake NI made. They you couldn't update Kore without having updated all of their other synths first, making updates slow and expensive to maintain. Those who want NI to keep supporting the product don't understand that updating Kore means updating the synth engines as well. That would hold back NI's other products (and has in the past).

I've requested feedback from NI for CDM, too, and encapsulated what I heard as the main issues. I think it was worth gauging thoughts here, too, even if it's a bit redundant with the forums.

Just waded through the NI forum on the matter. Save some time... Here is the one post from an NI spokesperson responding to the ire of the KORE 2 users:

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showpost....

@urbster1: kore.noisepages.com isn't going anywhere. Of course, we always envisioned it as potentially just a limited-time thing, and it had concluded some time ago. (And it still features useful stuff for anyone who uses a "legacy" Kore system, as well as things that are relevant beyond Kore.)

The host question? Great, great suggestion ... and something I've intended to have us do and just have never gotten around to. As I'm sure you're aware, those all take radically different approaches to the problem. I guess the main category is "host you can play live," whether that means live in-studio or live onstage.

Peter, what will be the fate of kore.noisepages.com? Additionally, how about featuring reviews of somewhat similar possible replacement softwares? Brainspawn Forte 2, VSTHost, Usine, Ableton Live, Mainstage, etc?

Join the facebook group so we can show some numbers outside of the official forum.

Please take a look at the official Kore forums as well as the Facebook group. Lots of discontent over this decision and registered owners were not (and still haven't been) officially made aware of this decision. Total bullshit.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_2189881...

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthrea...

It's worth noting that although at first glance the two maintenance updates sound thoughtful, it's not at all clear (from NI's official comments on their forum) whether these will include any bug fixes.

So for example, 64-bit compatibility and the latest plug-in engines won't mean much to Pro Tools users, because Kore causes system lock-ups when used in Pro Tools. This bug has been known for years and is exactly the kind of thing that until the abrupt discontinuation, one would have reasonably expected to be fixed in an update.

Yo Jace

I dont know. I haven't posted over there about this or anything else for a couple of years ... I stopped posting there when it became clear that the NI moderators were removing the unfavourable posts. They are apparently doing this less now. I just looked at the Kore forum over there, which is still up for the moment, looks like that people aren't too happy there either.

ive said all I need to on the official forum. I wish there was a way to see how many posters here are NOT forum members already talking there. More importantly, this article & open comments area is good to see & I hope there are more, even higher profile, such things very soon.

To those saying : doesnt matter, i dont use it but its like a synth that is discontinued, no big deal. You simply dont understand, probably because you dont use it.

To those saying: doesnt matter, shit get diecontinued all the time, just keep a system running with this if you like it. You apparently do not understand what Kore is. it is not a VSL or EW bank that can reside on anthor computer, the whole idea of the thing is that it is at the centre of what you do, it is supposed to be how you pull up, and realtime play with, all the sounds from all your synths ( of course it never actually became this, except if you only use NI stuff, but this is how it was marketed and this is how people were trying to use it)

For the other 80%, who see it for what it is, I would just say, please, don't just move to using the cracks, take the money that you gave to NI before and use it to encourage

honest companies who support their products and their customers. There are many of them out there. As for NI, I imagine that people will do what they feel is appropriate.

IMHO the fact that Reaktor is controlled by the people who now run what this company has become is the single most depressing thing in music technology today. 

Too ambitious to be sustainable. Sad day. I use my Kore controller all the time with my BooTweak for Kontakt project, as I scripted it to work specifically with a Kore controller. Free/Donationware w/ 720 original drum samples, here's a video of Kore + Kontakt working together: http://youtu.be/gr16Sr07EeA