They’re not doing this with Reason – don’t get too excited – but Propellerhead are at least adopting this approach for upgraders from Reason + Record. Photo (CC-BY-SA) Oli Shaw.

You’ve seen “pay what you want” pricing for self-released albums on Bandcamp, and independent donationware software. But you certainly haven’t seen it in a major proprietary application like Reason 6. That’s what Swedish developer Propellerhead is doing with their Reason 6 upgrade, with name-your-own-price starting at EUR/USD 1.00, through the end of October. (One, not one hundred. Really. Apologies for embedding what’s essentially an advertisement below, but the video explains it.)

Edit: Readers observe that Reason 2.5 was a free upgrade, which is arguably just as notable as a pay-what-you-will upgrade here.

Now, this isn’t for everyone: it’s the upgrade, not the full product, and it’s only for people who own a copy of Reason and a copy of Record. In effect, what the upgrade does is reward early adopters who purchased Reason and Record Duo or bought Record separately on top of an existing copy of Reason. My feeling was certainly that the two products should have been offered together from the start. Many Reason users complained that they weren’t getting all the new audio recording features (only a sampling feature). And I noted in a review of Record for Macworld that Record didn’t come with everything unless you also bought Reason. The bundling of Reason and Record functionality into a single product called “Reason” to me makes perfect sense, and the deal here reflects that.

For that reason, I wouldn’t go as far as asking, as Jo-Ann at Shocklee does, if this is the future of music software pricing. But it is a big deal, and it proves that more significant names in music software can take some risks. It’s also a nice bargain: remember that Reason 6′s price, reflecting the incorporation of both programs, is effectively what you paid for Reason + Record duo, and that even if you have both, you still get some nice, new effects. (I’ve been playing with them for a few weeks, so expect a write-up on that soon, once I actually sit down and make some real music with them.)

But for me, the bottom line is, it’s nice to see a good idea trump caution in the accounting department.

http://www.propellerheads.se/paywhatyouwant/

  • sjc

    Love this company on MANY levels. :  >

  • J

    I wish they fixed ReBirth for iPhone: give the iPhone version an interface that is, you know, actually usable?

    Not a cool company..

  • salamanderanagram

    my jaw dropped when i got this e-mail.

    maybe i will end up with reason 6 after all, lol

  • BirdsUseStars

    I wish rebirth for iPad had midi sync. Maybe next year.

  • http://ardour.org/ Paul Davis

    peter, i'll try not to take it as too much of an affront that Ardour, which has been available on these terms for OS X for nearly 3 years now, doesn't count as "a major application".

    but yeah, i guess we don't run on windows, so its not really "major" :)

  • Brian Tuley

    What a great reward for existing users!!!  This sort of thing gets everyone who ever used Reason to get back with the program.  

  • http://noisepages.com/members/griotspeak/ griotspeak

    I greatly appreciate the nod to students in the FAQ. I was immediately conflicted because I am a student who writes software. I KNOW it is worth more than $100 but student loans are a cruel mistress

  • http://noisepages.com/members/gunboatdiplomacy/ justin johnson

    i loved this announcement.  It is a real actual reward of significant value for early adopters (and i don't count 100 itunes cards as early-adopter rewards).  As somebody who has been using Reason since the very beginning, i oddly feel appreciated.  DO YOU HEAR ME, MOTU!?

    half of me wants to pay 1$ and take the prize while it's here as i'm sure it won't happen again.

    the other half wants to pay more just to reward Propellerhead for their generosity.

  • http://www.peanutismint.com Peanut

    Not being an owner or user of Reason, and not wanting to look a gift horse in the mouth, I can't help but feel that this offer could and should be open to everyone, not just current Record/Reason users.  I use another mysteriously cheap but unbelievably great DAW, Reaper, who seem to have still done reasonably well considering their software is priced at about 30% the cost of other similarly powerful apps. I've used pirated versions of Reason in the past, and it is indeed a good program, but I didn't ever think it worth buying. If I could decide to pay £60 for it then I'm pretty sure I would….. but Propellerhead won't see my £60 now…….

  • http://noisepages.com/members/griotspeak/ griotspeak

    @Peanut – the logic of that argument falls down. Cockos' business plan works for them, but that does not mean it will or would work for Props. It would be 'nice' to get Reason for less money unless that meant props had to shut doors or cut corners.

  • Paul

    J: Rebirth?? This isn't about Rebirth. It's about REASON.

    BirdsUseStars: See above.

    Peanut: So it's good. but not worth paying for? Sheesh..

    This is to reward early adopters. Not pirates.

  • sixnon

    as a long term user who was forced into a Reason upgrade in order to continue using Record [the concept of which I very much dug and wanted to continue using but was underwhelmed by the Reason update] I feel no compunction paying the $1 to be able to continue to use that software, albeit now incorporated into Reason. I think there's a tacit expression of Propellerhead's admission of having made a significant business error in the development/marketing of Record with this offer and, although I understand the perceived need for marketing hyperbole, it's a little disingenuous to try to manipulate the offer by way of guilt. I would not have upgraded to Reason 6 and thus Props would have lost a customer, with this offer they lose nothing and continue to have the possibility of revenue stream for further upgrades as they develop the Record aspect of Reason..it's a win for they as a business as far as I can see..

  • http://about.me/colinc Colin C. Allrich

    still doesn't make me want to go back and use Reason again… 

  • Vitor

    You're right sixnon.

    It's a business decision that came too late. This upgrade should be free for the Reason 5+Record1.5.

    I also feel that it is sad what they're doing now. A public apology would be the right thing to do.

    I'll pay €1 and they're lucky that I'll continue to upgrade. In September 2012, if they release Reason 7 with enough improvements I'll pay them the €100-€120 yearly upgrade fee.

    What puzzles me is how the perceived majority of their users are responding to this with so much praise. Anyway, this offer is not for them. It's directed at the users that were not going to upgrade, which makes me wonder if the perceived majority is not in fact a minority.

  • http://noisepages.com/members/gunboatdiplomacy/ justin johnson

    @Vitor

    A public apology?  what is there to apologize for?  there wasn't anything wrong with the product except that you weren't happy with the way it was packaged.  

    apologies are reserved for technical problems, not customer unhappiness with how a company releases a product.  But even so, Canon flubbed the back-focus issue of the 5D, but they certainly didn't allow 5D users to pay a dollar for a 5D MkII.  and apple won't be providing iPhone5s to everyone who has suffered from "death-grip."  And Vista sucked, but you still had to pay the full upgrade price for Win7.

    so yeah, it could be a tacit admission that they failed in their attempt to manage two different products.  or this may have been the roadmap all along.  we don't know that.  but i'll gladly take their offer.

  • http://noisepages.com/members/griotspeak/ griotspeak

    What? Record was 'A Major Feature Addition Done Well" in my opinion. 

    They put a boatload of 'NEW' in a separate program so that the growing pains of that new functionality would be associated with JUST that new functionality and then TADA! fold it on in.

    I have grown away from Reason and, in all honesty, this arc has pulled me back in. It is seriously well thought out and executed. I am not even talking about the "pay what you will" part, I am talking about adding significant functionality to an application while minimizing the impact it has on stability and brand.

    I think the perceived value of software is in a bad place made worse by a bad global economy. People assume developers make out like bandits while overlooking the fact that BANDITS make off with software like bandits. 

    Seriously, I may not pay a whole lot when the time comes for me to upgrade, but I will pay as much as I can manage to carve out for a somewhat unplanned purchase. (I should really just start faux trust funds for my software the moment after I buy any update.)

  • sixnon

    i should point out I meant the forced upgrade to continue to use Record when it came to the 1.5 upgrade. I think it was poor handling to force an upgrade to a separate software to allow the usage of a stand alone one. I know that there were arguments of "you can continue to use Record 1.0 with your existing Reason and I'm not looking to reignite that debate, merely suggesting that I felt it a poor decision, wouldn't have upgraded to the melded product if compelled to pay for it, and will gladly take the upgrade for the dollar as recompense for perceived ill treatment as a long standing customer. I'll gladly pay more in my local economy for something I could buy elsewhere cheaper, and I'll gladly pay to support software development if I think it's appreciated [which is often the case with small software developers trying to get a start]. At this stage of the game, I've supported Propellerheads well with 8 paid licenses currently showing on my account, and I'll gladly take their offer at their word, pay what I like and not buy into any emotional pressure to do otherwise. In saying that I'm not in any way endeavouring to criticise those who feel to pay over and above the asking price, nor denying the quality of the software.

  • http://www.twitter.com/Birds_Use_Stars BirdsUseStars

    @ Paul,

    you talk about what you care about, I'll talk about what I care about  d:D/–<:

  • http://www.popular-jerseys.com/ Authentic Jerseys

     So, don't be left in oblivion and start getting the jersey of your favorite sports team. Wear them as a symbol of support during the playing season. This would give the players great inspiration of returning the favor by doing everything just to win the championship. 

  • aje

    Whatever the thinking behind this decision, it seems to be causing a lot of division among their users on the forum, with some of their fans laying guilt and accusations on those who say they will pay $1. And watching the video promotion again, there is a little bit of manipulation going on I think… :(

    I guess that after the vocal complaints about their original upgrade price, Propellerhead were concerned that many users would simply not upgrade to Reason 6.0. I suspect that a lot of people switch FROM Reason to something more open, but fewer people switch TO Reason… so it must be important to Propellerhead to keep all their fans onboard, especially after the rather confused marketing and product decisions of the last couple of years.

  • Vitor

    @justin

    They tried to charge €99 for something that many of us know is not worth that much. They tried to milk the (loyal) cow.

    And now they play this sad game, manipulating loyal users with feelings like guilt.

    While you may point out that it is their business decision and we, as consumers, have to just buy their product or not, these decisions do not sit well with their company motto. Propellerheads have always presented themselves as a group of musicians making software for musicians. A cool bunch of guys who love making music, just like us.

    I still remember the Reason 2.5 free upgrade. It was a bigger upgrade than this and it was free. This never happened again. Everybody likes free beer from time to time, especially if you pay an yearly fee around €120. It's these guys, who've been upgrading for years, that should be pampered from time to time. If the Props scare them off, they'll take a hug financial hit.

    Like aje suspects, the Reason user base is much more important to maintain than other user bases. From the moment you turn away from Reason, you're most probably not coming back.

    They're changing, they're not the small company they once was. They've grown into a established player in the DAW world. I think they need to re-access their position and motto. A public apology would be the best thing to do.

  • eshefer

    "I think they need to re-access their position and motto. A public apology would be the best thing to do."

    WHY do they need to apologize?

    "They tried to charge €99 for something that many of us know is not worth that much. "

    they can slap whatever figure they want. we have the choice whether we buy the software at said price or not. are you joking? apologize? for  what? pricing the product one way and changing it becoase of user feedback? becoase it was "a mistake"? 

    they don't need to apologize, and if someone has to apologize it's not to the users (it's to the people who own the company it self).

     The correct way to do deal with mistakes is TO DEAL WITH THEM and CORRECT THEM. which is PRECISELY WHAT THEY DID.  

    if you want an analysis of the situation, based on nothing more then my observation – the big mistake, IMHO, was the whole idea of record being a separate product with a symbiotic relationship with reason. that has caused users the kind of headaches they have come to not expect from propellerhead software products. 

    that said, I too had doubts whether to buy the update or not, at the original price. I probably would, but not at release point. 

    I like what propellerheads are doing now because they end up giving their loyal customers MORE CHOICE. 

    if you don't want to, or need to, buy the product – don't.

     if you think it's worth something to you – pay what you think it's worth to you.

    it's not a GUILT thing at all.

     are you complaining because a company has listened to what its loyal customers have been saying as has given you MORE choice regarding pricing? are you serious?

    That said, from a marketing perspective – it's a good move. they gain two main advantages from this

    1. positive feedback and retention of their loyal user-base. 

    2. it lures users of competing software packages who are used to the traditional marketing and product launching paradigms (which in most cases is NOT a pleasurable experience) 

    it's a marketing thing.

    Oh, they are doing MARKETING! run for the hills!.

    it's a marketing move, plain and simple. so was the free release on 2.5 – which you mention. I remember it well. it came after the 2.0 release which was, IMHO a relatively lame release again, not the kind of stuff that thrills users (or at least THIS user) – where by "relatively" I mean relative to propellerhead software standards, not general standards. 

     "I still remember the Reason 2.5 free upgrade. It was a bigger upgrade than this and it was free. This never happened again."

    Record 1.5 was a free download. it had to be. 

     

  • Peter Kirn

    @Paul: Not to argue with you about your own application, but I'd suggest that Ardour is a fundamentally different model. Here, there's absolutely no distribution without the pay-what-you-will toll; that's not true with Ardour since even the Mac version can be built from source. So rather than add to the users already confused about that situation… not to suggest that "free" software should be no-fee, but I believe it is a separate category. Added the word "proprietary" to avoid confusion.

  • aje

    I don't think that Propellerhead really owe anyone an apology (even though they publicly stated for years that Reason would never have audio recording or a dongle)… I do think they have somewhat lost their direction though.

    ReCycle still has a UK street price around £150, while their new 2-in, 2-out interface aimed at beginners is launching at £350…! Seriously?

    Record was apparently five years in development before they launched version 1. Their stated aim was to attract guitarists, etc, and grow a new, different user base alongside Reason – hence launching it as a separate product/brand. It was "for musicians, not recording engineers" according to their blurb… but its headline feature was a gigantic SSL emulation! And once again, the price wasn't exactly entry level…

    So Record was (rather predictably for anyone with half an eye on the competition) a commercial flop on an epic scale: virtually the only people who bought it were existing Reason users. And now – against everything Propellerhead ever stated before – they have cut their losses and rolled the features into Reason in a bid to capitalise on their previous glory.

    Again, an upgrade for $1 is a decent offer to those of us who have supported them through these strange twists and turns, and who want to stay on board. But I wonder where they go next?

    Reason 6.0 is a full DAW – but one that can't address MIDI equipment or host plugins. I don't want to rewire one DAW into another DAW – that's just silly. Reason now has to stand or fall as a full-on audio DAW, using just it's closed environment. Factor in the high asking price (to newcomers) and Reason is starting to seriously look like a case of style over substance…

    I think that Propellerhead have somewhat cornered themselves into a tight spot. And I'm not sure if I personally want to stay there with them any longer, even for $1.

    YMMV.

  • http://noisepages.com/members/griotspeak/ griotspeak

    I honestly thought more people saw the careful and crafty way props rolled audio recording into reason as careful and crafty. When they announced that record was dead it all made sense. the 'forced' upgrades even make sense. I guess everyone has their read and there isn't much room to budge.

  • http://noisepages.com/members/gunboatdiplomacy/ justin johnson

    yeah, this "apology required" stance is odd to say the least.  even if they apologize, they won't change their roadmap; think about Netflix.  and Han still isn't shooting first.  apple only gave people a bumper to fix the engineering flaw of their phone.

    everyone has features they'd like to see added to Record/Reason and we can discuss whether it's worth it to pay full upgrade pricing for Reason6 and everyone will have a different opinion.  If you're a 5 user (without Record), then i think it's fair to pay full price.  If you bought record and weren't happy with it, then you have a right to moan (i was one, but i've since come around).  so here comes Prop to make it all better by giving you a discount.  who feels guilt?  i don't.  like sixnon i have a bucket of Prop licenses and i relish the opportunity to get something back.  

    this kind of stuff happens all the time.  Why do i have to upgrade to Snow Leopard just to get native Exchange support in Mail?  why do i have to buy a new Ford to get the new Sync?  and everyone has a gripe about how NI changes their products lines.  it's stupid to argue about it: companies don't give shit away for free no matter how harmonious sounding their company motto is (don't be evil, anyone?).  but in this case, Prop is giving it away to a select audience so i think it's great.  

    Now please kill that dongle!

  • http://noisepages.com/members/gunboatdiplomacy/ justin johnson

    and please dont say Reason is now a full-fledged DAW.  it's not.  PT, DP, Sonar, Cubase, etc etc are full DAWs.  Reason is not and it's priced accordingly.

  • http://mucca-pazza.org Andy

    To me it's very, very likely that Record was simply an experiment.  They intended to roll it into Reason from the beginning.  The whole way the 2 apps were integrated points to that. Personally I'm very satisfied with the improvements that have been made to Reason (and Record) over the years.  I argued for audio input for a long long time.

    For Reason+Record Duo users, this is an underwhelming upgrade.  We get 64-bit ReWire support (assuming any ReWire host we use has it implemented), 3 new devices, and some new presets.  I will upgrade.  I'll probably use the opportunity to but something else form the Props, like their pianos refill.

    I do want to say one thing about Reason (and Record).  It has never, ever, ever crashed on me.  I've used it since version 2 on Apple PowerPC and Intel architecture, using a wide variety of audio hardware.  It's been one of the most stable and efficient programs I've ever used.  It's a big part of why I'm loyal.  I know I'm getting a well-made product.  I can't say the same for PT or Logic.

  • salamanderanagram

    it's really sad how people will complain about literally anything. give something away for basically free, and people tell you that you should apologize? wtf?

  • stvx

    Reason isn't a full-fledged DAW? Hmmm..

    It's digital, it does audio, and it's a workstation. Just because it doesn't run plugins, doesn't mean it isn't "full-fledged." And please.. stop complaining. They're basically giving it away. If you feel your other DAW is better, then stick to that. It's that simple. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. People just want to pick at any little thing they can…

    At the end of the day, bills need to get paid and people need to eat. It is a company… And you know.. REAL people work in it. 

    Don't like it? Go elsewhere. There are plenty of choices nowadays ;)

  • BirdsUseStars

    @Justin Johnson, not for nothing, but DP And cubase are only a little more expensive than Reason, and Sonar is actually cheaper. Not sure what the criteria is for "priced accordingly" here.

  • Vitor

    I won't press the subject. To each his own.

    Moving on.

    No, Reason is not a fully fledged DAW. No plug-in support and no MIDI out. To some it might make no difference, to others it is a big deal.

    And yes, I exercise my right to moan and complain about the products I like. I don't go elsewhere just because there are things I don't like about Reason. I use Reason everyday and I love it.

  • Kns

    Apology?

    Haha.  They should apologize to customers who have the option to pay $1. Seriously?

    Props have lost their way? What exactly was their way? Where do you folks come from.

    The companies that should be apologizing are the ones that build bug ridden garbage software.

  • bliss

    Oddest comments for a customer appreciation promotion that I have ever seen.

    No matter what one thinks of Propellerhead's motives, their gesture with Reason/Record is the best I've seen from a major company for a major DAW — ever!

    Humans are such strange fish.

  • http://www.quikphix.org xonox

    @Andy : i agree with you. Been very stable since i bought version 1.0. This is a selling factor to me. I also agree that the update is a bit underwhelming, which is why i think the pay what you want thing is nice.

    Those complaining about the price of a new Reason copy should enlighten me as to what kind of synths and effects come with other products. Reason is a dream come true for me. And from my limited experience checking for plugins, decent synth and effect plugins require decent sums of money.

    I've been very well treated by Propellerhead software and their software works very well for what i do. I'm a happy customer.

  • blipmusic

    Actually I see this both as an early adopter price but also to prevent people sitting on both Record and Reason for support purposes.

    If I were Propellerheads, I'd much rather support *one* product than its forked early versions. Perhaps this can even save them some money in the long run.

    I mean who would *not* pay 1.00 eur/usd if they are owners of both Record and Reason?

    This is about the same deal as when OS X Snow Leopard was introduced where Apple obviously wanted everyone on Leopard to move to what was essentially a "better" version of Leopard (that they continued that pricing is a another topic).

    Also, the vitriol in here shows a lot of ignorance. If you see everythin in black or white (internet syndrome) and you don't like to think, consider not posting at all. Reason is probably the most stable software I have currently installed and no other music software has my creativity flowing like Reason does. The last bit is subjective, of course, but I have a copy of Cubase 5 sitting in its box collecting dust as I absolutely hated working in it (won in a contest/draw). Next to a good text editor, Reason is the one piece of software I'd pay for (that's not an implication of me pirating software, by the way, I don't). 

    Have fun bitching.

    tl;dr

    Propellerheads might want people to upgrade for a number of reasons, pay what you want is how they motivate us to do so. A restart of sorts.

  • http://www.theblacklaser.net/ Joe the Wizard

    They will have my fifty American dollars September 30th without a doubt, which, by then, will probably be worth about 1€.

    I've owned Reason since version 2.5 and have never felt wronged by the Props. Wonderful company.

  • Ace

    I can't figure out why some of you are bitching or demanding an apology? They don't owe you anything, and you have the option to pay a dollar, so what is there to complain about? Reason is a fantastic program with virtually endless options. If you don't like it, then go back to your Ableton or Cubase and quit commenting about a product you don't even care for.

  • Kns

    The way this economy is now, its disgusting to see people whine about needing an apology. The perceived majority who are happy about this has every reason to be happy. A lot of us are broke, we have families, bills, etc to take care of.

    If it wasn't for the fact that we are allowed to be creative with our preferred music making software we would go crazy. Damn right we are happy we can save some money on an upgrade. Thank you Propellerheads!

  • http://www.myspace.com/dahuuu Dahut

    Fruity Loops anyone?

  • http://durkkooistra.com durk

    Exactly my thoughts @Dahut. FL has a lifetime of free updates and does pay what you want for their plugins…

  • Kns

    Simple. Some of us prefer Reason. :)

  • http://durkkooistra.com durk

    @kns – The articel refers to proppelerheads showing major dev's can take a risk. 

    Imageline has been doing this for years…

  • Ace

    @Kns I agree. I prefer Reason and pretty much run my entire studio through it. It is an absolute powerhouse. People that hate on it just never took the time to learn it. And the fact that the Phead is releasing this upgrade virtually for free is amazing. Ableton and Cubase have just been around longer so people swear by them. It's not an apology in disguise, it's a thank you to the fans. Yes, for duo users (like me) it isn't much of an upgrade, but the fact they are offering it to all Reason users is very noble. Imagine if you were still running Reason 3, 4 (or hell, even 1 or 2) and now they allow you to upgrade to the current version for a BUCK? That's not an apology, that's a gift.

  • Vitor

    Glad to see your juices flowing, somewhat.

    It seems to me that most of you confuse generosity with marketing. Put your thinking caps on. Charging €99 was a mistake that they took some time to fix.

    I'm glad that they've corrected the situation, but this should've been foreseen. In all these years that's the only mistake I think they did. I don't consider Record to be a mistake and I'm glad they did it. We all gain with the final integration.

    As for the apology, I just think it would make them appear more humble and with higher moral standards. It would be an excellent way to make users empathize with them.

    And stop thinking that this is the first time someone does this kind of promotion. Take a look at FL Studio.

    Lastly, don't tell me to go my Cubase or Live. l use Live and Renoise, but none of you can say that you've been using Reason for longer than me, unless you beta tested the first version.

  • mckenic

    I have Reason+Record Duo & I was not planning on upgrading. I stopped using Record as with my Macbook, it became a choice – do I plug-in my external HD with refills & samples or do I plug-in my MPK mini?

    I can currently sit in bed and fire-up Reason 5 if I feel creative – no power/usb hub needed. The cynic in me sees this as a stealthy way to get Reason users to embrace the dongle.

  • DBM

    Didn't they just release V5 this year ? 

  • s ford

    something which i may have missed which hasn't been given any press is that they are also releasing a stripped version by the name of 'reason limited' which will come free with soundcards and 'reason essentials' which is a mid priced alternative. 

    RL has a 8 track limit I think RE has unlimited tracks, but will lost 279 Euros which seems a little expensive anyway…

    http://www.propellerheads.se/products/reason-esse

  • chris

    Wow, amazing how many people seem to think that people, designers, musicians all should work for free. The same ones who routinely rip off music, software, and graphics because they are "entitled" to do so. Reason is a unique program, and should be thought of as another alternative to aiding in music production. All of the DAWs (Logic, Pro Tools, Sonar, Cubase, etc.) are great and most of the complainers should be transported back to the time when producing your own record would set you back tens of thousands, not a buck. Grow up, pay up, or design your own program!

  • Peter Kirn

    This seems an artificial controversy, yes. I don't get the sense that it's the opinion of the Reason/Record user base in general. I think Props might have angered those who made this investment had they offered the paid Reason 6 upgrade and not this plan, but this will effectively make up for it for anyone wanting the upgrade.

  • Ashley Tym

    When I got this email I really didn't get the idea at all! I was thinking "the more I pay, the more I get, right?". Well, that turns out to be wrong.

    I wonder how many people have entered more that USD/EUD 1.00 as the price that they're willing to pay? I'd still like to know if there's any extra (possibly future) "perks" that are availble to those who pay more than the logical $1.00 for this upgrade? I mean, if I dropped USD399.00 on this (if that's what I thought it was worth to me) would I get anything more than those who paid 398 dollars less (other than a deep sense of idiocy and regret)?

  • sjc

    I paid more. Got the upgrade and integration I wanted, and LOVE it. WTF is up with these people who think Propellerheads owe them anything? If you don't want it, don't buy it. If you make a living with it, buy it. I can't see a pro (or anyone who's earned a $1 from your original music) even quibbling about price. I'm sure many of these people are also sitting around with a million excuses why they aren't famous yet. Or better yet, why they haven't finished that epic track the've been working on for months now. Get to work %$^*&@*#&@. Finish something.

  • greg

    Propellerheads doesn't owe anyone an apology.

    They just look pathetic trying to buy back users and pretend they're doing something else.

  • Peter Kirn

    @greg: You can't "buy back" users with a deal which has, as its prerequisite, buying the most recent release. Sorry, that just doesn't make any sense.

  • Peter Kirn

    I don't want to make too much out of this, either. It's very, very typical for a developer to, say, offer a free upgrade for people who've purchased a version in the last six months. This isn't radically different from that. I'll be interested to hear from Props if anyone pays more than the minimum. On Bandcamp releases, for instance, I know they very often do. And we've seen, say, indie game releases where people donate quite a lot. On a software *upgrade*… not so sure. If they did a whole product with pay-what-you-want pricing, that'd be more interesting.

  • Peter Kirn

    It's funny, when comment threads like this evolve, I have to sometimes re-read what I wrote to see if I said something provocative. I really didn't. Oh, well — I guess it speaks to the passions Reason ignites. Better than feelings of boredom, at least!

  • JBo

    As a long time user of Reason I feel a bit put out by their offer. I don't use, nor do I need Record. I have use Live and Pro tools 9, why would I need Record. But I love Reason for what it is. Where is the love???

  • pwedza

    so wait, I own Reason 2.5. Do I get no upgrade price ?? now I have bought a lot of software – but I'm not gonna purchase 6 if I don't get an upgrade price.

  • pwedza

    all this software stuff does kinda suck after years of buying it. I bought Komplete 7 in the late spring, hoping that 8 wouldn't come out too quick. of course 8 comes out in late summer and there is no upgrade offer for recent Komplete purchasers. terrible timing

    I've prolly spent a few thousand dollars on software. I have friends who have never spent a dime – all pirated. kinda tired of the BS. Reason offering such a limited gimmick is an insult to owners of past version. I haven't upgraded Reason because, imo, it hasn't been on the level for a long time.

    oh well, if I ever do use it, it will be by alternative means.

  • aje

    So here's the thing: when you go to get the $1 upgrade you actually have to state what you think the value is of each effect, 64-bit support, and the revised soundbank. So you have to state five amounts that you actually think each part of the upgrade is worth "to you".

    This underscores the impression I have that the offer is more about countering criticisms on their forum using a small amount of manipulation and guilt, rather than a sincere and generous special offer. Personally I'm not comfortable or impressed…

  • Peter Kirn

    @JBo: As a Reason user, you get a whole lot of new devices. And you can really think of this new SSL-style mixer as a new device. So you can really look at this as a typical Reason upgrade with a whole bunch of new stuff. 

    That said, what I'm hearing from folks is that it's the way this offer was presented that put people off.

    Communicating with users is delicate. With comment threads like this and forums and whatnot, though, you can bet that the vendors get immediate feedback.

    I would be surprised if Propellerhead intended to come off as passive-aggressive, if that's what you mean. I didn't get that, but what I'm hearing here is that doing the pay-what-you-will offer in this particular way may have overcomplicated things versus just offering it for free. I expect the intention – not having spoken to them about it – was to try to avoid a free upgrade making it seem like this wasn't a *significant* upgrade.

    Oh, well, no matter. I'll talk about the specific new devices and what I think of them soon. (I really like them… been aching to actually have some time to make music with them. Ahem. Music. Heh.)

  • greg

    @Peter

    You think they're doing this out of the kindness of their hearts?

    Record was ill-conceived, should have been released as part of Reason from the start, and Propellerheads is doing an awful job spinning it otherwise.

  • sjc

    Of course Record (audio) was supposed to be part of Reason from the beginning, but maybe they knew it would take another year to rewrite the whole program as one and decided to give people the audio they've been begging for. You think if they said "we'll do it, but it'll take another year" that people wouldn't still be moaning? Same with Apple and FCPX. It's very easy for "armchair" developers to say this and that without having a clue as to what's involved in developing and marketing major software. At leas Props do public betas and people can have 'some' input. As a Logic Pro user I feel like all those requests and crash reports just go into a black hole. I've almost never seen anything I've ever requested. Just sayin'. : >

  • Vitor

    @sjc

    Record integrated Reason from the start. There were no integration problems to solve. It was separated because they wanted to attract a new user segment. If you remember the video clips, the message was clear: "Record is very easy to use". That would be hard to suggest if it had all the Reason's bells and whistles.

    It might had work if Record was cheaper, like €50. More than that and I think it just can't compete with Garage Band.

  • sjc

    @Vitor

    You have a point. No one can beat the Garageband price point. Even Logic Pro and all the content included is kind of amazing. Still, I'm psyched it's all under one hood and 64bit.

  • http://noisepages.com/members/griotspeak/ griotspeak

    this conversation saddens me. @greg – ill conceived? really? I guess no one appreciates careful planning anymore.

    @Vitor no. I strongly disagree with your point. Reason's ease of use has always been a selling point. 

    Do we really think that this is 50 bucks of work? Apple makes money on their WHOLE ECOSYSTEM which is arguably centered on selling hardware. Props makes software and sell other things as a compliment TO their software. 

    I know I know. stop arguing on the internet, but man. … just… man. 

  • Peter Kirn

    I don't really see a comparison between GarageBand and Record — well, now Reason 6. GarageBand's a great bargain, but there's more than enough in Reason to make it a very different tool that could easily be worth the extra scratch. And I'm not going to write a comparative review in a comment, but suffice to say you're talking very different workflows, bundled instruments, and philosophies between Logic and Reason.

  • aje

    Somewhat different note: this release seems to use a LOT more CPU than previous versions of Record or Reason… also quite a few people are reporting issues with the dongle registration, downloads, getting their authorisation codes, etc. The argument for keeping a closed system has always been stability and efficiency, but the current spate of reported issues suggest all is not well…

    Anyone here having problems, or is this really just a few people shouting loudly? 

  • Peter Kirn

    @aje: I haven't yet tested the registration portion, but I'd be extremely surprised by any change in CPU consumption based on what I understand was changed in this release. Is that an issue you're seeing? How are you measuring it? Compared to which version? CPU monitoring is often a dodgy art and may have more to do with the OS here than anything else — depends. Curious to hear what you're seeing.

    I was testing beta and RC versions, too, and didn't find any issues.

  • aje

    I saw this on some (not all) beta versions, but now see it widely reported on their user forum and elsewhere. We're talking about a 2 to 3 times increase running same projects in R6 compared to Record 1.5. I thought this had been resolved prior to release and/or was because of the debug code. But its a concern to see it reported openly by early adopters now :(

    Speaking of which, I just can't decide how much to pay for the upgrade, so not yet actually gone ahead with it!! The Props obviously feel it is worth $99 (their asking price) which for people using it exclusively may well be true. Hard to justify to them the breakdown of how/why I would pay less… so caught in indecision at this point!!

  • Vitor

    @griotSpeak

    Reason/Record are very easy to work for guys like us. But for computer illiterates, just looking at a Reason rack (not even talking about the cable view) or the mighty SSL on Record are enough to scare many of them.

    @Peter Kirn

    It does not matter they they're both very different. I know that, you know that, but the musicians I believe were being targeted with Record don't know that. They just want something to record their songs.

    And what I write to griotspeak also applies here. Look at garage band pics and then compare them with Record… what seems simpler and easier to work with?

    A very stripped down Record, call it "Record Lite", costing €50, and a flexible upgrade path would probably have been more successful. And I really mean stripped down, take away the SSL, Rewire, Neptune and a few others bits and pieces.

  • http://www.djs-only.co.uk Allan

    Its a fantastic gesture by Propellorheads, it just a shame Reason still does support VSTs. 99% of my production goes through Reason but there's still the odd occasion where you've made something on the Virus and have to link up Cubase for the sake of 1 or 2 synths.

  • Ian

    sounds like a way of charging for what is effectively a update to a system that was always going to work better in the one package. it will probably be great but would i pay much for it, probably not, i would have thought i'd have paid plenty for the original progs and without significant new features would you call it an upgrade