alchemy-advanced-mode

Camel Audio have long been a favorite name in plug-in instruments and effects, as makers of CamelSpace, CamelPhat, the Alchemy sample manipulation instrument. But their software hasn’t seen updates in some time, and today customers were greeted with a bare-bones site that presented only basic support options and a login.

Upon logging in, I read this:

January 8, 2015

We would like to thank you for the support we’ve received over the years in our efforts to create instruments and effects plug-ins and sound libraries.

Camel Audio’s plug-ins, Alchemy Mobile IAPs and sound libraries are no longer available for purchase. We will continue to provide downloads of your previous purchases and email support until July 7, 2015. We recommend you download all of your purchases and back them up so that you can continue to use them (Instructions: How to Download and Backup Your Products).

Those downloads are available now and it appears won’t be around forever.

There are two main scenarios here that could explain the fate of the software itself (inevitably, people do wonder if a company ceases operation whether their software will be made available free):
1. Licensing issues may prevent them from giving away the software. (Making it open source is often simply not an option; proprietary software often builds on proprietary libraries – or was simply never intended to be developed in an open environment.)
2. Assets may have been otherwise liquidated – as in, possibly sold to another developer.

Without any information, everything else is speculation.

The light of hope here, as noted in comments: sound designers were already working on Alchemy 2, meaning a new developer may take over the new synth.

The software business is tough – plain and simple. I’m very impressed by independent businesses making a go of it at all – see Audio Damage, for instance, who have built unique stuff with a liberal licensing scheme. But I know the numbers are very often right on the edge. And we have to remember that supporting those developers we love is what keeps them in business. Some day, they simply might not be there any more. I’m sad to see these folks go.

CDM asked Camel if they wish to comment; we’ll publish if we hear back from them.

https://www.camelaudio.com/

Previous post

Casio Crosses a Groove Box, DJ Controller With Millennium Falcon

Next post

Antiques Roadshow? Yamaha to Celebrate Its Synth Legacy with Vintage Gear

  • Random Chance

    This again brings up the ever pertinent question of how to deal with the legacy of software and hardware manufacturers that go out of business (asummedly for good): Should there be a kind of “last will” in place that allows for an orderly archival and release of all assets like source code, build systems, etc.? It’s just so sad to see that in the business world children (i.e. products) tend to die along with there parents.

  • Random Chance

    This again brings up the ever pertinent question of how to deal with the legacy of software and hardware manufacturers that go out of business (asummedly for good): Should there be a kind of “last will” in place that allows for an orderly archival and release of all assets like source code, build systems, etc.? It’s just so sad to see that in the business world children (i.e. products) tend to die along with there parents.

  • Mark Antony

    Why aren’t these plugins open for free downloading? You’d think they’d want their legacy to live on.

    • Tor

      Just speculating, but there might be licensing issues that prevents this.

      • peter

        Would also not be fair to people who bought them recently.

        • lokey

          how so? they received the software, its not going anywhere just because other people have access to it.

          • Hakeem

            What a scummy thing to write.

          • just passing

            No, it’s fair comment. If they’d purchased a physical synth matters would be different – warranty obligations, etc – but software buyers buy a limited licence to use a copy of the product; the publisher is basically an absentee landlord.

          • lokey

            i might say the same. but what can be asserted without evidence can be so dismissed πŸ˜€

      • senz

        Mostly its IP issues that forbids OSS’ing or free distribution. There are rare cases like Blender, when community buys rights for software and making it OSS

    • Del

      When a company goes bust they usually try to sell the assets to at least recoup *something*. Alternatively, another company may be about to buy them out. If you give the software away then you don’t have anything to sell anymore. Should they not be compensated for their hard work as much as possible? Do you think car dealerships give away free cars when they go bust? well, no – because the cars are worth something. And guess what – the software is worth something too – it’s intellectual property.

    • AlainCl

      Because they’re not stupid businessmen, just unsuccessful ones.

    • ducked

      they are free for downloading…. thats why there out of business

  • Mark Antony

    Why aren’t these plugins open for free downloading? You’d think they’d want their legacy to live on.

    • Tor

      Just speculating, but there might be licensing issues that prevents this.

      • peter

        Would also not be fair to people who bought them recently.

        • lokey

          how so? they received the software, its not going anywhere just because other people have access to it.

          • Hakeem

            What a scummy thing to write.

          • just passing

            No, it’s fair comment. If they’d purchased a physical synth matters would be different – warranty obligations, etc – but software buyers buy a limited licence to use a copy of the product; the publisher is basically an absentee landlord.

          • lokey

            i might say the same. but what can be asserted without evidence can be so dismissed πŸ˜€

      • senz

        Mostly its IP issues that forbids OSS’ing or free distribution. There are rare cases like Blender, when community buys rights for software and making it OSS

    • Del

      When a company goes bust they usually try to sell the assets to at least recoup *something*. Alternatively, another company may be about to buy them out. If you give the software away then you don’t have anything to sell anymore. Should they not be compensated for their hard work as much as possible? Do you think car dealerships give away free cars when they go bust? well, no – because the cars are worth something. And guess what – the software is worth something too – it’s intellectual property.

    • AlainCl

      Because they’re not stupid businessmen, just unsuccessful ones.

    • ducked

      they are free for downloading…. thats why there out of business

  • I would guess another company bought out Camel Audio, in which case they probably can’t say anything until the buyer discloses the info. KVR has the usual pages of speculation http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=429204

  • I would guess another company bought out Camel Audio, in which case they probably can’t say anything until the buyer discloses the info. KVR has the usual pages of speculation http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=429204

  • Jan

    Perhaps they better had started building hardware as well sooner to make the basement of the company wider. I’d like to know if this is related to a shortage of cashflow…

  • Jan

    Perhaps they better had started building hardware as well sooner to make the basement of the company wider. I’d like to know if this is related to a shortage of cashflow…

  • inspiral

    Even if it’s a small company, Camel Audio made one of the best soft synth and most inspiring libraries available today. I guess they won’t just ‘die out’.

  • inspiral

    Even if it’s a small company, Camel Audio made one of the best soft synth and most inspiring libraries available today. I guess they won’t just ‘die out’.

  • Gesslr Gesslr

    If they were bought out, it’s odd they have downloads available thru July. The purchasing company usually picks up support for the products unless the products are to be abandoned altogether. I wonder if the change to the VAT requirements just pushed them over the fence. Or was piracy killing them?

    They make great products, had one of the more humane licensing schemes, and very fair prices. Says a lot that the market didn’t reward their behavior. Very decent people. I wish them all the very best.

    • Don’t forget Camel Audio was in a stage where sound designers were already creating patches for Alchemy 2, so it would make sense that a buyer is going to focus on the new synth first.

      • Yes, good point – that’s a ray of hope, too, so fingers crossed…

      • Gesslr Gesslr

        I hope you are right.

      • you work and fight until the last minute, but if the money runs out you have to file bankruptcy! so sad, but hopefully you are right!

  • Gesslr Gesslr

    If they were bought out, it’s odd they have downloads available thru July. The purchasing company usually picks up support for the products unless the products are to be abandoned altogether. I wonder if the change to the VAT requirements just pushed them over the fence. Or was piracy killing them?

    They make great products, had one of the more humane licensing schemes, and very fair prices. Says a lot that the market didn’t reward their behavior. Very decent people. I wish them all the very best.

    • Don’t forget Camel Audio was in a stage where sound designers were already creating patches for Alchemy 2, so it would make sense that a buyer is going to focus on the new synth first.

      • Yes, good point – that’s a ray of hope, too, so fingers crossed…

      • Gesslr Gesslr

        I hope you are right.

      • you work and fight until the last minute, but if the money runs out you have to file bankruptcy! so sad, but hopefully you are right!

  • Chris Stack

    Sad. Their iPad app was one of my favorites.

    • Dustinw

      I agree … Alchemy Mobile is killer on the iPad! They released an iOS 8 version with Audio Bus support back in the fall … it’ll still be one of my main synths on iOS for a while (may even cause me to delay the iOS 9 upgrade just in case).

  • Chris Stack

    Sad. Their iPad app was one of my favorites.

    • Dustinw

      I agree … Alchemy Mobile is killer on the iPad! They released an iOS 8 version with Audio Bus support back in the fall … it’ll still be one of my main synths on iOS for a while (may even cause me to delay the iOS 9 upgrade just in case).

  • TJ

    That sucks, they created some solid products.

  • TJ

    That sucks, they created some solid products.

  • Peter

    That’s terrible – someone should continue the development. I just purchased a license, I’d be happy to pay for future upgrade and continued development.

  • Peter

    That’s terrible – someone should continue the development. I just purchased a license, I’d be happy to pay for future upgrade and continued development.

  • Hope pirates now see the real cost of what they do. Anyone who says it should be made free was probably someone who never paid/wanted to pay for the software in the first place. Good going pirates!

    • lokey

      i rather think this demonstrates the infeasibility of pay-for-access software in the first place, rather than suggesting any screed against ‘piracy’. Its a shame they didnt explore a more sustainable business model.

      • do you think charging for software isn’t a good business model? How else do you propose software developers get paid for their work and make a living? It’s attitudes like “I think all software should be free” that cause these problems in the first place. If people realised creating this stuff takes a lot of hard work and investment, they’d be more understanding.

        • lokey

          patronage models make -way- more sense than pay for access for niche content like this. its energetically costly to try and maintain control over information flow while simultaneously trying to get your content into as many places as you can. Assuming that every piece of work needs to be ‘paid for’ after the fact is the fallacy, and its a costly one.

          • well, I hope you have fun in your communist distopia. Yes, some software works open-source, but audio software has never really gone that way, and the stuff that is open-source is pretty awful. If people just accepted that they had to pay for software they want to use, this wouldn’t happen. The solution is to treat software criminals the same as rapists and paedophiles and come down hard.

          • lokey

            ahh, hyperbole. because any alternatives to failed business models are simply doomed communism dreaming. Ok. (to say nothing about that last line, im just grateful you didnt godwin this conversation, though you’ve come mighty close).

            This isnt about ‘open source’ software, this is about ensuring a sustainable business model, so you can keep making software, and ensure that the software you’ve made in the past has the greatest impact on those who appreciate its value.

            Anyhow, good luck with pursuing a doomed model.

          • Well it looks like software subscriptions are the way to go. When all the software is cloud-based and checks your account constantly for an active subscription, software piracy will be over.

          • lokey

            except that model requires excessive server overhead and is financially costly. Works for adobe, wouldnt work for the majority of niche software producers. Why not simply offer a subscription, without the needless nanny-state overhead? If folks enjoy your software, and have the money to support you, make it easy for them to do so directly. Making it more difficult for people to use or experience your software is a good way for it to be ignored entirely, which is rather a waste of effort.

          • Whoa, easy gang — keep it civil. Some thoughts.

            1. Calling the software business model flawed is totally fair game. Trust me, the people *living off it* sometimes muse on that thought! Seriously!

            2. Of course, let’s talk about other models, too. Patronage, that’s a tough one – I’m waiting any second for Ardour’s Paul to chime in and talk about how much trouble that can be. Subscriptions, well, I’m sure some music devs will go that way.

            3. We don’t even know what happened with Camel. Extrapolating the state of the whole industry from this case is nuts to begin with, doubly so when we don’t know the full story. Like I said, the business is tough; that’s always a safe bet. At the same time, many other developers are toughing it out – and we have exactly zero information on what happened here.

          • foljs

            “””except that model requires excessive server overhead and is financially costly.”””

            Actually, as a developer, I can tell you it’s pennies compared to other costs even a small indie company has.

          • shockwave

            Tom: Oh!! I bought software like that before. Yes indeed, I had the Korg digital instruments library, complete with USB dongle. Paid top dollar for it. Then the dongle died, and Korg had discontinued the dongles and didn’t have one to give me. And they steadfastly refused to update me to the newer version which checks periodically over the network.

            Yessir, I do LOVE buying products and not being able to use them, all because some DRM thing is busted or the company is bankrupt and the server doesn’t respond anymore. At least when I throw my money in the toilet and flush it, I get ONE sound out of it — that’s more than I can say for Korg. At least with Camel, I’m going to be able to continue using my purchased software without worrying about the Camel servers vanishing. And I keep that in mind for ALL programs I buy, today and tomorrow.

            DRM solves piracy in the same way closing freeways stops bank robberies — they just take another route so the only ones affected are the honest customers.

          • Korg clearly got it wrong. I have 3 iLoks and used to have a Steinberg e-Licenser. I also have an Adobe subscription and Native Instrument products. I have never had any issues, and iLoks will still work regardless of an internet connection.

            The old “DRM prevents legitimate users” is so old and worn out. The only people who have a problem with DRM is people who want a freebie. As for iLok support, it’s great and if you get the very cheap ZDT it even covers lost and stolen iLoks.

            Given it’s not been cracked and works perfectly, that seems a pretty good solution.

          • shockwave

            As I paid for my programs, instead of pirating, I expect to be able to use my paid for product — I can’t. Meanwhile, all the pirate kiddies get to USE what they DIDNT pay for. How does this make me a bad person, wanting to be able to use what I pay for?

            I like the model used by Light Show Pro (another expensive program I paid for, like full Alchemy). AFter install you are in Demo mode until you do the licensing bit. Said authorization is done once when you enter your license, as it was emailed to you. You are permitted to install 5 times before you have to request a new key through support (presumably explaining how you lost so many computers). With this, if LSP goes bankrupt and the servers disappear, my current computer will run the program forever. I can’t install on a new machine, no. But that’s a price I’m willing to accept and a DRM I’m willing to accept.

            But I’m not going to accept my paid for product shutting down when the server is down or the company goes bust, no. And that’s the danger to your solution, Tom. That’ll be fine for installation, but refusing to run until you contact a server is not acceptable to me. I paid for it. I expect to use it, just like I expect a Pontiac Aztek to run even though Pontiac is no more.

          • I agree, Korg got it wrong and that is un-acceptable. However iLok will still work even if the servers close down, as it’s totally standalone. I agree there are good and bad ways to do DRM but calling all DRM “bad” isn’t fair.

          • shockwave

            And saying DRM stops piracy is also unfair. People not paying and getting to actually use pirated versions while those of us that paid up are locked out for one reason or the other, makes the piracy look better than the legal route. And it should be the other way around; the pirates should have problems while the legit owners do not.

          • foljs

            Well, depends on the DRM. Nobody has pirated the locked versions of Reason IIRC. And same goes for the new DRM-ed Softube stuff.

          • Kev2

            give one example of “good will” software distribution actually resulting in the intellectual property owners not having to work 3 jobs to make ends meet while they wait for users to contribute to the cause. Oh, I get it, let’s crowd fund multiple projects and keep them in development in perpetuity; cause everybody knows you can’t make money from actually selling software. Caveat: figure out a way to “candy crush” music software and you will never play for money again.

          • lokey

            if you’re going to restrict things only to ‘intellectual property owners’, youre not going to find many examples. But there are plenty of content creators making a living without resorting to ownership of their IP.

          • Kev2

            Well the restriction has to apply, otherwise there is no tangible product to use. In this patronage world (of your choosing), how do the people who work for “content creators” get compensated?

          • lokey

            well, i for one make my living as a content creator on a contractual basis. People with specific needs approach me, or issue a request for proposals, to accomplish specific tasks and create specific works. Following that, those works are made available to the client, and then broadly distributed to others to use as they see fit. Thats a very effective model in many industries, but not one that makes sense to those in a retail mindset. Niche industries need to think outside the boxes they’ve drawn around themselves if they’re going to survive.

          • Kev2

            Your’e comparing apples to oranges. According to your model, you would not get “contracted” until the end user has already paid someone else to commission your work. in fact, many small developers will outsource work because its more efficient or less expensive. If you are honest, you would agree that it is easy to expect the other content creators to work for free when you know you will get paid regardless of whether your client succeeds or fails. To call yourself a “content creator” is a bit disingenuous.

          • lokey

            you fundamentally misunderstand. the ‘end user’ is the one doing the commissioning in the first place. what ‘other content creators’ are you referring to?

          • Kev2

            There’s the rub – you compare yourself to content creators who you think should not charge for their intellectual property, yet you require a contract before you create anything. Not exactly the same, are they? The end user (in this case) is not a specific client, but a class.

          • lokey

            look, everyone is entitled to adopt whatever business model they like, but given that theirs hasnt worked for them, maybe considering other models makes some sense. ours works for us.

            ps have no idea what your ‘class’ comment refers to.

          • Jan Civil

            ‘content creators on a contractual basis’ is a wholly different goalpost. All of your sophistry is transparently self-serving. If you can’t afford the plugins stick to what’s free. People like to eat and what-not and a business model that brings in money portrayed as failing while ignoring piracy is preposterous.

          • lokey

            Thats entirely my point. why stick to a business model that ignores the implications of piracy? its absurd.

          • bugaj

            I’ll write you some content *creation* software using the same model. You issue specific feature requests, and I will implement them.
            P.S. You can’t possibly hope afford it.

            You don’t understand “economies of scale” (or, for that matter, relative scales of projects).

          • I pirate all my software, but I know it’s wrong and it needs to be legislated. The future of our economy depends on this. I will continue to steal software because I can. But something needs to be done, and it IS possible.

        • Freemium; lock an oscillator or another important control so if people like how the demo presets sound then they can buy a license. Audio plugins are a hard sell if you can’t even try a demo for a lot of them, there’s a limit to what a YouTube video or SoundCloud clip can tell you.

          • lokey

            thats a dangerous road to go down though, depending on how locked down the parameters are. crippling flexibility good way of ruining your software, making it less useful to the person who initially uses it, and decreases the goodwill which all small businesses ultimately depend on.

          • Perhaps, I see where you’re coming from, but greying out a control or simply overlaying “feature not available in demo” would work just fine. Another option is some kind of VST wrapper that uses the plugin remotely as a VM. Speaking of which, Rabb.it is a great example of how VMs can scale and have full OS and programs running on them that get reset when you disconnect, I see playing with software in the cloud with zero downloads to be the future, very similar to Gaikai’s demos of console games a few years ago.

          • Tekknovator

            This was freemium, the player with the macro controls was free. Editor had to be payed.

        • just passing

          > do you think charging for software isn’t a good business model?

          The only real measure for quality when it comes to business models is “does it make a profit?” And trying to make money by selling something for which free replication technology exists? Pretty much the antithesis of “how to make a profit”.

          > How else do you propose software developers get paid for their work and make a living?

          Please explain what, in your view, differentiates the moral right of a software developer to eat from that of a blacksmith.

          Trades become obsolete; business models are overtaken by technological advances. That’s capitalism – and the fact that you throw terms like “communist dystopia” around (especially at someone describing something much more like feudalism, but hey, never mind) indicates that you haven’t quite understood the essential brutal precariousness of the system to which you appear so devoted.

          I’ll lay money that you have used the phrase “the world doesn’t owe you a living” within the last week. Well – the same applies here, sweetie.

          One last point: Legislating to sustain an otherwise unsound business model is generally known as protectionism – and, as we know from the frequency with which it’s been tried, and has failed, in the past, it’s lousy at achieving its aims.

          • Are you saying software development as a trade is becoming obsolete? If anything it’s required more these days than ever before. What a stupid comment, where do you plan to get your software from? Comparing it to a blacksmith is ridiculous as a blacksmith didn’t suffer from piracy.

            As for copy-protection, the current iLok2 system hasn’t been broken yet, so that seems a pretty good system to me.

          • just passing

            Let’s just make it clear from the outset that I know you’re trolling, and this will be my last reply.

            > Are you saying software development as a trade is becoming
            obsolete?

            No. As you say, as a trade, it’s more essential than ever.

            I am saying, though, that as a *business model*, software *distribution* is basically over.

            And you also asked “How else do you propose software developers get paid for their work and make a living?” That’s very easily answered: the same way *everyone* gets paid for their work and makes a living – a day job. If you’re lucky, it’ll be a day job writing software. If you’re really lucky, it’ll be a day job working on the kind of software you want to work on. That, since you appear to be unaware, is what software developers *do*, whether they’re employed by a software publisher or not. Most, oddly enough, aren’t.

            Not my fault that you have hopelessly confused the two concepts. Maybe my fault that you’re sure to refuse to accept that you have – but I never claimed to be persuasive.

            Maybe with the passing of software distribution as a business model, software development will come to be valued even more highly as a trade. I think every contractor has had the experience of a client saying “why do you want to charge me $thousands for this, when I can go out and buy a copy of ShrinkWrappedX for $beermoney?”; I sure as hell have. With any luck, once people understand that what they’re actually paying $beermoney for is only the right to turn on their own personal replicators, the whole thing will go away and the appreciation that actually software development is Difficult and Expensive will finally dawn.

            But until then, don’t you dare come along and claim to be a friend to the software developer. You want to make money renting out the fruits of our labour. That’s all.

            “What a stupid comment”

            Troll indicator. (Also could be a defensive ploy from someone feeling intellectually outgunned, but… let’s just say that your grammar is far too good for you to be that dim. Brave for a troll to use a photo and a real name, though. Even if they probably aren’t yours.)

            “where do you plan to get your software from?”

            I could write it. I could use one of the many competing free ecosystems (which might be even richer once software development is properly valued and recompensed). I could even chuck some money in a tip jar; I’ve done that before too.

            “Comparing it to a blacksmith is ridiculous as a blacksmith didn’t suffer from piracy.”

            Do I even need to dignify that with a rebuttal? No, I don’t think so.

            “As for copy-protection”

            Ah, yes… now I KNOW you’re a troll. Subtle – pretending to wilfully misunderstand “protectionism”. Nice one.

          • I disagree with you, so I must be a troll?! Right, OK! You’re on the guest account which is far more likely to be used for trolling. Never mind.

            So, let’s say the developer’s day job is writing software, for a software company, they need to make money. Best way to do that would be to sell the software. Now if piracy was gone, everyone who needed that would pay the developer.

            And how dare you say I’m not a friend of software developers. I pay to use the software, I charge an hourly rate for what I do. I could use any number of free tools, I don’t, I pay for 3rd party plug-ins and guess what, I don’t add it on to the bill every time I use a specific piece of software. Lots of people do it, it’s how lots and lots of creative things are created. Just having the tools doesn’t mean someone knows what to do with them. That’s like saying an artist is taking all the credit away from the paint and brush manufacturer, or a photographer is actually taking credit away from the camera and lens manufacturers.

            And I am perfectly aware with protectionism, however wanted to protect intellectual property isn’t the same. Surely you know that?

          • lokey

            ‘best way to do that is to sell the software’ is an ASSUMPTION. one which ignores reality in a big way. you’re free to attempt it, but its difficult, and energetically costly, and in-no way guaranteed to be worth your while…

          • Done

            Your right. Screw it. The ppl developing software shouldn’t “ASSUME” they’ll be paid by u idiots.

            Middle finger to all of u. Here comes the new “business model”. Online Subscription service required for each plugin developer you buy from. Paid yearly. Internet connection required to use ALL software.

            If that doesn’t work….add on a extra $50 to the yearly bill bc you’ll now need a iLok as well as a free USB port, Internet connection, and subscription service.

            If that doesn’t work…..software will be linked directly to hardware with DSP. Hardware will depend on the software. Just like UAD…..all software will be installed and ran off of 3rd party DSP hardware instead of your computer.

            If that doesn’t work. All but the largest software companies close due to bankruptcy. Software developers will be forced to find other means of work to feed their families. No more money coming in to feed development and no reason to continue working on quality software.

            Finally……Federal Govt takes control of software development. Govt imposes tax on America for “free” software. All small software companies are extinct. The means to create software is now monitored by the govt.

          • lokey

            gosh youre a negative sod. sorry youre preferred approach has problems! but i hardly think we’re in some doom and gloom situation. dont worry. the kids are alright.

          • lokey

            and whats with all this ‘you idiots’ nonsense? its not like im obliged to support software i dont even use. as i said, if they had tried to monetize camel crusher, it would be a different issue, but i dont/have never used the software they charged for, so im not sure where this abuse comes from.

          • Dutch

            “the same way *everyone* gets paid for their work and makes a living – a day job. If you’re lucky, it’ll be a day job writing software. If you’re really lucky, it’ll be a day job working on the kind of software you want to work on. That, since you appear to be unaware, is what software developers *do*, whether they’re employed by a software publisher or not. Most, oddly enough, aren’t.”

            Hey, so you want to get paid for your day job. Like everybody else with a day job.
            But that money has to come from somewhere don’t you think? Or do you think everyone with a day job works for a company with a filthy rich owner who can pay you and your colleagues for years on without earning anything?

            Companies need to earn money to pay their employees for their day job. Period. So the company you have your day job will need to sell something, most likely the software you are working on. And if that gets pirated no (or not sufficient) income for your company, they can not pay you for your day job and go out of business. So no paid day job for you.
            So please explain the better business model than selling the software using any protection mechanism to avoid piracy. I can’t.

          • ElectroB

            So you’re saying that software developers should be expected to give away their work and support themselves through day jobs at software companies which will also mostly be giving away their work for free because DRM=evil.

          • Jim W.

            Agree completely. I used to write music software. Well reviewed, well loved, lots of happy customers. Didn’t pay the bills. Now I work for Wall Street devising ways to defraud pension plans, all in a perfectly legal way. It’s not as fun, but I live comfortably and sleep well. The market has spoken and the market says that the best talent shouldn’t be writing music plugins.

          • General-Zod

            You work on ways to defraud pension pans and you sleep okay? No wonder hell exists

          • Martin

            from someone who pirated 95% of everything on my computer, stfu and dont justify not paying for it if you can afford it. The model really doesnt matter at all, if you have good products, you have good customer service and reliability, and you have a personable face to the people, people will buy/pay. Theres also many ways companies can fail (if camel audio even failed, the whole story isnt out there yet), and to just blame this all on piracy is just dumb.

          • Wallard

            You’re basically an idiot. Doubt you’re a software developer.

          • A Software Developer

            @just passing,

            Dear mother of all that is, you are either an epic troll or just infinitely stupid. πŸ˜€ Software distribution as a business model is over?! If you are working in software development, please tell us so, but if not, what-the-hell-do-you-know about how software development works and what business models work to software companies?

            And “the moral right of a software developer to eat from that of a blacksmith”? Oh, I’m sorry, did not see you came from the land of World of Warcraft. Before you come here acting all Father Pious, _please oh please_ explain how the current economy relies on the work of blacksmiths rather than software development? Blacksmiths might be a dying breed, but software development? Oh come on…

            Do you not realize that in most cases, putting hobbyists aside, software development IS, in all it’s forms, a f***ing DAY JOB! πŸ˜€ Surprise! Welcome to 2015!

          • senz

            Some folk are still think that you should hang or kill people to solve problems. Well, history taught nothing those people.

            I know that those people b.h. every time they think about someone downloading for free their “precious” creations. Haha, what a silly thought. Is Beethoven be less popular, and less paid for that his creations are now everywhere? Well, we never now. He’s not less genius, indeed.
            As said above, there are many models – some work and some dont. But if object of selling is worth be paid for, most people will. Those “pirates” as you call them, rarely use that soft for commerce, its an alternative to extended trial for them, or they just want to play with that soft for a little while, and words “demo” or “trial” reminds them bad things from the past (when dev truly cripple their software). You play with plugin, if it worth its money, you buy it. Many dev already have that model – look at Reaper. I love those guys, and their success should be discussed, not Korg’s failure.

            P.S.: Naming people stupid – thumbs up. You should look in the mirror.

          • Guest

            “Is Beethoven be less popular, and less paid for that his creations are now everywhere?”

            Amazing. Thank you for that. I had no idea that Beethoven was still alive.

            “if object of selling is worth be paid for, most people will”

            No they won’t. A technological loophole allows them to get it for free, they’ll get it AND make money from it.

            I just have to look at the hundreds of people I’ve run into over the years me doing gigs with cracked copies of Ableton Live, Cubase, Traktor, Guitar Rig and whatnot. Reaper is just that much easier to use for free.

            Do carry on. I enjoy observing phenomena of cognitive dissonance.

          • ElectroB

            “if object of selling is worth be paid for, most people will.”

            No they won’t. If a technological loophole allows them to use it for free, they will.

            I’ve met dozens of people who make money from pirated software, DJ’s using Traktor, guitarists using cracked Guitar Rig copies, producers with illegal cracked Cubase copies in their studios, etc.

            They all said pretty much the same thing you said, but they ended up making money with pirated software anyway, while telling themselves they were “evaluating” or that a few hundred dollars “was too expensive” even after they’d made thousands in a few months that would totally have paid for the software.

            I think there’s a whole lot of cognitive dissonance going around this thread.

          • senz

            Its nice that you’ve finally read text to the end. You should probably delete your “anonymous” comment (;
            People around you are really bad, you should probably leave that place (if your story isnt imaginary) instantly, imho.
            Despite your belief, there are many decent one’s. And business is going on, still.
            I dont think there are much dissonance here, just some trolls and “angry” types, thats it.

          • ElectroB

            My “anonymous comment” is the result of login problems. Lost my original comment while writing and had to re-login and rewrite it, bits and pieces went AWOL. Just add to my “official” comment the Beethoven jab and my thoughts on Reaper. Apologies for the mess.

            Don’t know what you mean by “reading the text to the end”. I always read the texts / posts I’m commenting.

            I won’t go into discussions of whether “people around me are really bad”. But the kind of behaviour I describe is commonplace and verifiable to anyone who has met musicians or DJs who use software to do their work. Anyone here can empirically verify this reality.

            I’ve also met many “decent” ones, of course, including people who had used pirated software because when they barely had money to make ends meet and then went “legit”.

            I also agree there are many trolls and angry types in this thread.

            Among this group we find people who know their behaviour (consciously stealing software products / services even when they have disposable income) has little to no moral justification. And therefore they feel the need to seek validation for their behaviour. Their discomfort is quite evident in their comments.

          • enough passing

            Lol. He thinks your trolling. Seriously?……….

            I guess that makes sense givin “Just Passing’s” reasoning.
            The guy makes absolutely zero sense. I can’t even figure out what his argument is….I guess he thinks it isn’t work. That new aspiring software developers should take out a loan, go to college to learn their craft, and apply it for free. During that time they can just work at McDonalds, while creating free software, to pay off their loans and living expenses. Smh. Computer coding is f’n hard and it’s not for everyone.

            I wonder if he knows how much it costs to develope your own audio software? I mean GOOD software that can compete with the big boys.
            1 person can’t do all the work. They have to hire outside entities to help….and it costs a fortune. Even Steve Duda had to have help from the minds behind Cytomic and Sound Toys for cpu optimization and filter encoding. As smart as Steve is even he couldn’t get the CPU optimization down to halfway reasonable levels in his new synth Serum w/o help from some of the encoding brainiacs @ Sound Toys.

          • Jan Civil

            I use too many things which cannot be replicated by developers that aren’t supported by a robust infrastructure.

            Your last point is bizarre. Is it Camel that had an unsound business model and you’re extrapolating that to mean people cannot expect to sell licenses for audio plugins? Because of the evil of Digital Rights Management, because of particular excesses or even mistakes?
            It looks to me like your argumentation is circular to your dislike of paying for things.

          • B.C. Thunderthud

            It seems probable that piracy is a factor limiting the size of the market but considering the sheer number of developers selling more-or-less similar instruments to a fairly mature market it’s unavoidable that some companies are going to fail. If it’s the case that every company is losing money then there’s a problem, otherwise I think the solution is to make better products or compete in a less saturated market.

          • bugaj

            Making a living making something that I can easily acquire with cheap lockpicking tools and carrying it away in my own (free) arms is also a anti-profitable way to make a living. Honestly, everyone should just sell services or battleships. If not, I’m just gonna steal the shit out of it. You’ve been warned, you pathetic anachronisms. And don’t try any of that legislation crap, either. It’s not gonna work, I’m still gonna steal everything that’s small enough for me to carry.

          • lokey

            you’re welcome to try, but stealing physical goods is a demanding job.

          • General-Zod

            Wow you sound like a real loser. You should be proud of yourself.

          • It was satire. He wasn’t serious.

          • PLS

            Someone please stomp this cockroach please.

          • You sound like an aggressive individual. He was joking. Now get back to lynching more innocent people.

          • sacredgeometry

            I wish we could block people from the internet.

        • Paul

          ^ what he said. I don’t think people realize that employees of these companies literally eat and feed their families based upon purchases. It might take years to develop software, meanwhile you’re paying engineers, and programmers the whole time. There’s nothing free in the process at all.

          • Doug

            Software developers eat their families!!??

            Grammar nitpicking/joking aside, I’m also very saddened by this news. I’ve been a Camel Audio customer for years. Alchemy gets all sorts of use here in my studio. They will be sorely missed. I’m hoping that they were bought by another dev, and that it will not be tied down to a single platform.

          • dnbyriverinvan

            In some things Alchemy is the best ive heard.What a drag.Hope all the pirates computers suffer from a perenial BSOD.

      • Done

        Wtf does that mean? U want it free? U want a bunch of ppls knowledge and months/years of hard works for free? U do realize ppl do this for a little living right? I mean….software designers and encoders don’t exactly graduate college after a long and difficult curriculum and dream about applying their craft for free while they work at McDonalds to pay their bills and feed their families. Lol. What do u expect? Software designers on the interstate with signs that read “will write software for food!”

        Ppl these days want a whole lot in exchange for absolutely nothing.

        • lokey

          not the most nuanced riposte ive heard. theres a wide margin between criticizing the business model, and claiming that software should ‘be free’. feel free to try to make a living however you want, but its important to learn from the hardship of others attempting the same approach.

      • General-Zod

        That’s the stupidest thing that I have ever heard. It’s not feasible to pay for things? Imagine a society where people actually had to pay for things!! I guess that means people should go to work for free and do everything for free. Then when it comes to paying their bills they can tell collection companies they work for free. Please sir, enlighten us to a more sustainable business model that doesn’t include allowing people to steal things.

        • lokey

          again with the straw man arguments. no one is suggesting that people who use and benefit from software shouldnt support its development, except doom and gloom people like you, who view pay-for-access models as the only legitimate business models for software. the problem is that these models -dont work- for niche content. you’re free to pursue those models if you wish, but the people who will be successful in the future are those that a) encourage easy micropatronage from those who enjoy or benefit from the software, and b) make their money from services, rather than content. feel free to try other approaches if you like, but dont cry about things when archaic business models built around scarcity fail to deliver a liveable wage.

    • SomeOne

      LOL. It’s clear that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
      Camel audio wasn’t cracked in the last 4years, most developer being
      cracked every second day are alive and well.

    • Owls And Stills

      i don’t think this is a problem that’s going to be fixed anytime soon. and i think that the internet should work like spotify. if you download software, the developer gets a royalty of your monthly internet bill. sounds crazy as fuck right? well we’ve been running around in circles with this argument for too long. imagine if everyone online and everything online was funded with a pay per play model……

    • err0r

      safe to say piracy isnt the culprate here. otherwise how are all those other highly pirated software makers doing so well?

      (Ableton, NI, Avid, Stienberg etc)

    • Martin

      as someone from the thirdworld country that has a job that only exist because of economic imbalances, meaning an outsourced job, I work as much as someone would in the states (and more) for a fraction of the cost. At least piracy isnt persecuted here. Give and take I guess.

    • Theo Artzoglou

      In my opinion it’s not nearly as bad to use pirated software for making fun personal projects. If your going to be making money using it though, buy the damn software.

    • VirtualMark

      Why are you blaming piracy? The cause of their demise could be anything, it’s not yet clear as to why they’ve ceased operations. Perhaps it’s personal reasons or something totally unrelated to piracy.

      Piracy could lower the sales, but that’s assuming that all the pirates were potential customers who would have paid money. The vast majority of people who pirated their stuff probably wouldn’t have bought it anyway.

      If they had low sales, then there could be many reasons for that. Alchemy is a good synth, but it’s not the best and has some fierce competition.

      You should really do some research before making comments like this.

    • zaova

      I have a policy when it comes to ‘pirating’ Audio plugins are tough to demo because if you want people to fully get a feel for what it can offer you unlock too much, vise versa you lock features you then cant show what you can offer. I pirate software solely on the terms that if I like the software enough I purchase it otherwise I uninstall and move on.

    • TheWraith517

      When you SELL a music app you become obligated to provide it to customers (many many apps no longer get sold) But they can still be downloaded by the users who bought it.. When the rumours are flying and you assume its down to piracy, then please explain why people who bought it on iDevices (can no longer find it in the app store?) This is normally something that happens to a company that’s currently under suspicion of piracy, theft or other form of crime investigation (it would certainly explain why its gone 100% from the app store) and unavailable to people who already bout it right? Which has nothing to do with piracy at all, its to do with the fact Apple will no longer host the file for customers who bought it

    • Mr. Peckerwood

      yes, pirates make companies get bought out by Apple for lots of money

    • Jaques

      Actually, it turns out they were bought out by Apple. Good going Apple!

    • Edward Furlong

      Wrong assumption. Apple bought the company They’re doing fine.

    • gLOW-x

      NI Waves Image Line… are all pirated since the beginning.
      And they still run fine. Camel messed their business. And we don’t know why.
      Their legit customers will probably need to use the pirated version soon to run their paid software. Think about this point…

    • That’s BS, dude. If people pirate something they either don’t have the resources to buy it or wouldn’t pay for it, anyway. The sales would suffer regardless. It’s about marketing and appeal to your audience.

    • Daniel X

      Do you feel dumb now that it turns out Apple bought them? You should.

      It’s arguably worse when a big player like Google or Apple moves in and buys somebody out — because it means less choice for consumers. Usually the awesome products that led to the buy-out in the first place cease being available. It’s mainly to hire talented developers away from independent shops and get them to work for the Borg.

      • Grow up!

      • That comment was months ago, pretty pathetic commenting on something that old

        • Daniel X

          I am trapped in a time warp! My life is so sad! All I can do is sit around pirating software and commenting on old posts. PLZ SEND HELP

    • I’m from the few dumb guys paying for software like Alchemy, but are afraid about the fact that i did not get any updates anymore – inacceptable for such a high poricey product aiming to be a professional tool where users have to work in for some of their valuable hours…

      Can’t hear that “bad crackers make software companies diead” anymore. There are enough options to make cracks so difficult that any professional user would not do that and the kiddies doing that further and use crappy versions would not have the money to buy it…

      Alchemy isn’t available for AAX and my support request broughts: Wait for the next upgrade and buy it – you canΓ„t await a AAX build “for free” – while most others at that time pro Tools 64 bit was coming out brought us free AAX updates… Bad support will not make high prices paying customers happy…

    • pro-crastinate

      just going to jump in there and say that its probably something to do with apple taking them over

      • Look, that comment was 6 months ago, lots of other people have said a similar thing.

  • Hope pirates now see the real cost of what they do. Anyone who says it should be made free was probably someone who never paid/wanted to pay for the software in the first place. Good going pirates!

    • lokey

      i rather think this demonstrates the infeasibility of pay-for-access software in the first place, rather than suggesting any screed against ‘piracy’. Its a shame they didnt explore a more sustainable business model.

      • do you think charging for software isn’t a good business model? How else do you propose software developers get paid for their work and make a living? It’s attitudes like “I think all software should be free” that cause these problems in the first place. If people realised creating this stuff takes a lot of hard work and investment, they’d be more understanding.

        • lokey

          patronage models make -way- more sense than pay for access for niche content like this. its energetically costly to try and maintain control over information flow while simultaneously trying to get your content into as many places as you can. Assuming that every piece of work needs to be ‘paid for’ after the fact is the fallacy, and its a costly one.

          • well, I hope you have fun in your communist distopia. Yes, some software works open-source, but audio software has never really gone that way, and the stuff that is open-source is pretty awful. If people just accepted that they had to pay for software they want to use, this wouldn’t happen. The solution is to treat software criminals the same as rapists and paedophiles and come down hard.

            oh, and putting a -word- in hyphens doesn’t make your point any
            -more- valid

          • lokey

            ahh, hyperbole. because any alternatives to failed business models are simply doomed communism dreaming. Ok. (to say nothing about that last line, im just grateful you didnt godwin this conversation, though you’ve come mighty close).

            This isnt about ‘open source’ software, this is about ensuring a sustainable business model, so you can keep making software, and ensure that the software you’ve made in the past has the greatest impact on those who appreciate its value.

            Anyhow, good luck with pursuing a doomed model.

          • Well it looks like software subscriptions are the way to go. When all the software is cloud-based and checks your account constantly for an active subscription, software piracy will be over.

          • lokey

            except that model requires excessive server overhead and is financially costly. Works for adobe, wouldnt work for the majority of niche software producers. Why not simply offer a subscription, without the needless nanny-state overhead? If folks enjoy your software, and have the money to support you, make it easy for them to do so directly. Making it more difficult for people to use or experience your software is a good way for it to be ignored entirely, which is rather a waste of effort.

          • Whoa, easy gang — keep it civil. Some thoughts.

            1. Calling the software business model flawed is totally fair game. Trust me, the people *living off it* sometimes muse on that thought! Seriously!

            2. Of course, let’s talk about other models, too. Patronage, that’s a tough one – I’m waiting any second for Ardour’s Paul to chime in and talk about how much trouble that can be. Subscriptions, well, I’m sure some music devs will go that way.

            3. We don’t even know what happened with Camel. Extrapolating the state of the whole industry from this case is nuts to begin with, doubly so when we don’t know the full story. Like I said, the business is tough; that’s always a safe bet. At the same time, many other developers are toughing it out – and we have exactly zero information on what happened here.

          • foljs

            “””except that model requires excessive server overhead and is financially costly.”””

            Actually, as a developer, I can tell you it’s pennies compared to other costs even a small indie company has.

          • shockwave

            Tom: Oh!! I bought software like that before. Yes indeed, I had the Korg digital instruments library, complete with USB dongle. Paid top dollar for it. Then the dongle died, and Korg had discontinued the dongles and didn’t have one to give me. And they steadfastly refused to update me to the newer version which checks periodically over the network.

            Yessir, I do LOVE buying products and not being able to use them, all because some DRM thing is busted or the company is bankrupt and the server doesn’t respond anymore. At least when I throw my money in the toilet and flush it, I get ONE sound out of it — that’s more than I can say for Korg. At least with Camel, I’m going to be able to continue using my purchased software without worrying about the Camel servers vanishing. And I keep that in mind for ALL programs I buy, today and tomorrow.

            DRM solves piracy in the same way closing freeways stops bank robberies — they just take another route so the only ones affected are the honest customers.

          • Korg clearly got it wrong. I have 3 iLoks and used to have a Steinberg e-Licenser. I also have an Adobe subscription and Native Instrument products. I have never had any issues, and iLoks will still work regardless of an internet connection.

            The old “DRM prevents legitimate users” is so old and worn out. The only people who have a problem with DRM is people who want a freebie. As for iLok support, it’s great and if you get the very cheap ZDT it even covers lost and stolen iLoks.

            Given it’s not been cracked and works perfectly, that seems a pretty good solution.

          • shockwave

            As I paid for my programs, instead of pirating, I expect to be able to use my paid for product — I can’t. Meanwhile, all the pirate kiddies get to USE what they DIDNT pay for. How does this make me a bad person, wanting to be able to use what I pay for?

            I like the model used by Light Show Pro (another expensive program I paid for, like full Alchemy). AFter install you are in Demo mode until you do the licensing bit. Said authorization is done once when you enter your license, as it was emailed to you. You are permitted to install 5 times before you have to request a new key through support (presumably explaining how you lost so many computers). With this, if LSP goes bankrupt and the servers disappear, my current computer will run the program forever. I can’t install on a new machine, no. But that’s a price I’m willing to accept and a DRM I’m willing to accept.

            But I’m not going to accept my paid for product shutting down when the server is down or the company goes bust, no. And that’s the danger to your solution, Tom. That’ll be fine for installation, but refusing to run until you contact a server is not acceptable to me. I paid for it. I expect to use it, just like I expect a Pontiac Aztek to run even though Pontiac is no more.

          • I agree, Korg got it wrong and that is un-acceptable. However iLok will still work even if the servers close down, as it’s totally standalone. I agree there are good and bad ways to do DRM but calling all DRM “bad” isn’t fair.

          • shockwave

            And saying DRM stops piracy is also unfair. People not paying and getting to actually use pirated versions while those of us that paid up are locked out for one reason or the other, makes the piracy look better than the legal route. And it should be the other way around; the pirates should have problems while the legit owners do not.

          • foljs

            Well, depends on the DRM. Nobody has pirated the locked versions of Reason IIRC. And same goes for the new DRM-ed Softube stuff.

          • Kev2

            give one example of “good will” software distribution actually resulting in the intellectual property owners not having to work 3 jobs to make ends meet while they wait for users to contribute to the cause. Oh, I get it, let’s crowd fund multiple projects and keep them in development in perpetuity; cause everybody knows you can’t make money from actually selling software. Caveat: figure out a way to “candy crush” music software and you will never play for money again.

          • lokey

            if you’re going to restrict things only to ‘intellectual property owners’, youre not going to find many examples. But there are plenty of content creators making a living without resorting to ownership and absolute control of their IP.

          • Kev2

            Well the restriction has to apply, otherwise there is no tangible product to use. In this patronage world (of your choosing), how do the people who work for “content creators” get compensated?

          • lokey

            well, i for one make my living as a content creator on a contractual basis. People with specific needs approach me, or issue a request for proposals, to accomplish specific tasks and create specific works. Following that, those works are made available to the client, and then broadly distributed to others to use as they see fit. Thats a very effective model in many industries, but not one that makes sense to those in a retail mindset. Niche industries need to think outside the boxes they’ve drawn around themselves if they’re going to survive.

          • Kev2

            Your’e comparing apples to oranges. According to your model, you would not get “contracted” until the end user has already paid someone else to commission your work. in fact, many small developers will outsource work because its more efficient or less expensive. If you are honest, you would agree that it is easy to expect the other content creators to work for free when you know you will get paid regardless of whether your client succeeds or fails. To call yourself a “content creator” is a bit disingenuous.

          • lokey

            you fundamentally misunderstand. the ‘end user’ is the one doing the commissioning in the first place. what ‘other content creators’ are you referring to?

          • Kev2

            There’s the rub – you compare yourself to content creators who you think should not charge for their intellectual property, yet you require a contract before you create anything. Not exactly the same, are they? The end user (in this case) is not a specific client, but a class.

          • lokey

            look, everyone is entitled to adopt whatever business model they like, but given that theirs hasnt worked for them, maybe considering other models makes some sense. ours works for us.

            ps have no idea what your ‘class’ comment refers to.

          • Jan Civil

            ‘content creators on a contractual basis’ is a wholly different goalpost. All of your sophistry is transparently self-serving. If you can’t afford the plugins stick to what’s free. People like to eat and what-not and a business model that brings in money portrayed as failing while ignoring piracy is preposterous.

          • lokey

            Thats entirely my point. why stick to a business model that ignores the implications of piracy? its absurd.

          • bugaj

            I’ll write you some content *creation* software using the same model. You issue specific feature requests, and I will implement them.
            P.S. You can’t possibly hope afford it.

            You don’t understand “economies of scale” (or, for that matter, relative scales of projects).

          • I pirate all my software, but I know it’s wrong and it needs to be legislated. The future of our economy depends on this. I will continue to steal software because I can. But something needs to be done, and it IS possible.

        • Freemium; lock an oscillator or another important control so if people like how the demo presets sound then they can buy a license. Audio plugins are a hard sell if you can’t even try a demo for a lot of them, there’s a limit to what a YouTube video or SoundCloud clip can tell you.

          • lokey

            thats a dangerous road to go down though, depending on how locked down the parameters are. crippling flexibility good way of ruining your software, making it less useful to the person who initially uses it, and decreases the goodwill which all small businesses ultimately depend on.

          • Perhaps, I see where you’re coming from, but greying out a control or simply overlaying “feature not available in demo” would work just fine. Another option is some kind of VST wrapper that uses the plugin remotely as a VM. Speaking of which, Rabb.it is a great example of how VMs can scale and have full OS and programs running on them that get reset when you disconnect, I see playing with software in the cloud with zero downloads to be the future, very similar to Gaikai’s demos of console games a few years ago.

          • Tekknovator

            This was freemium, the player with the macro controls was free. Editor had to be payed.

        • just passing

          > do you think charging for software isn’t a good business model?

          The only real measure for quality when it comes to business models is “does it make a profit?” And trying to make money by selling something for which free replication technology exists? Pretty much the antithesis of “how to make a profit”.

          > How else do you propose software developers get paid for their work and make a living?

          Please explain what, in your view, differentiates the moral right of a software developer to eat from that of a blacksmith.

          Trades become obsolete; business models are overtaken by technological advances. That’s capitalism – and the fact that you throw terms like “communist dystopia” around (especially at someone describing something much more like feudalism, but hey, never mind) indicates that you haven’t quite understood the essential brutal precariousness of the system to which you appear so devoted.

          I’ll lay money that you have used the phrase “the world doesn’t owe you a living” within the last week. Well – the same applies here, sweetie.

          One last point: Legislating to sustain an otherwise unsound business model is generally known as protectionism – and, as we know from the frequency with which it’s been tried, and has failed, in the past, it’s lousy at achieving its aims.

          • Are you saying software development as a trade is becoming obsolete? If anything it’s required more these days than ever before. What a stupid comment, where do you plan to get your software from? Comparing it to a blacksmith is ridiculous as a blacksmith didn’t suffer from piracy. Yes, they became obsolete, but software is required, that means it has to be paid for. Charging is the best way to do that.

            And don’t assume I’ve said anything, I certainly haven’t used that phrase, not last week, not last month, in fact, I don’t think I ever have.

            As for copy-protection, the current iLok2 system hasn’t been broken yet, so that seems a pretty good system to me.

            Again, you clearly have a problem with paying for things you use, so when the “obsolete” developers all go out of business as, according to you, they’re no longer needed anyway, where will you go for software? What exactly do you propose as a method to get your software?

            Also, if you’re going to make such ridiculous claims, at least register instead of hiding behind a guest account.

          • just passing

            Let’s just make it clear from the outset that I know you’re trolling, and this will be my last reply.

            > Are you saying software development as a trade is becoming
            obsolete?

            No. As you say, as a trade, it’s more essential than ever.

            I am saying, though, that as a *business model*, software *distribution* is basically over.

            And you also asked “How else do you propose software developers get paid for their work and make a living?” That’s very easily answered: the same way *everyone* gets paid for their work and makes a living – a day job. If you’re lucky, it’ll be a day job writing software. If you’re really lucky, it’ll be a day job working on the kind of software you want to work on. That, since you appear to be unaware, is what software developers *do*, whether they’re employed by a software publisher or not. Most, oddly enough, aren’t.

            Not my fault that you have hopelessly confused the two concepts. Maybe my fault that you’re sure to refuse to accept that you have – but I never claimed to be persuasive.

            Maybe with the passing of software distribution as a business model, software development will come to be valued even more highly as a trade. I think every contractor has had the experience of a client saying “why do you want to charge me $thousands for this, when I can go out and buy a copy of ShrinkWrappedX for $beermoney?”; I sure as hell have. With any luck, once people understand that what they’re actually paying $beermoney for is only the right to turn on their own personal replicators, the whole thing will go away and the appreciation that actually software development is Difficult and Expensive will finally dawn.

            But until then, don’t you dare come along and claim to be a friend to the software developer. You want to make money renting out the fruits of our labour. That’s all.

            “What a stupid comment”

            Troll indicator. (Also could be a defensive ploy from someone feeling intellectually outgunned, but… let’s just say that your grammar is far too good for you to be that dim. Brave for a troll to use a photo and a real name, though. Even if they probably aren’t yours.)

            “where do you plan to get your software from?”

            I could write it. I could use one of the many competing free ecosystems (which might be even richer once software development is properly valued and recompensed). I could even chuck some money in a tip jar; I’ve done that before too.

            “Comparing it to a blacksmith is ridiculous as a blacksmith didn’t suffer from piracy.”

            Do I even need to dignify that with a rebuttal? No, I don’t think so.

            “As for copy-protection”

            Ah, yes… now I KNOW you’re a troll. Subtle – pretending to wilfully misunderstand “protectionism”. Nice one.

          • I disagree with you, so I must be a troll?! Right, OK! You’re on the guest account which is far more likely to be used for trolling. Never mind.

            So, let’s say the developer’s day job is writing software, for a software company, they need to make money. Best way to do that would be to sell the software. Now if piracy was gone, everyone who needed that would pay the developer. Now, you answer the point of what the developer could do for a day job, but money needs to come from somewhere. Surely you can agree on that? Tip jars wouldn’t really be a sustainable alternative for software that costs Β£1000s now would it? I am fully aware that software development is difficult and expensive, surely that’s more of a reason to charge what some companies charge? How exactly would any developers make money from a free ecosystem?

            And how dare you say I’m not a friend of software developers. I pay to use the software, I charge an hourly rate for what I do. I could use any number of free tools, I don’t, I pay for 3rd party plug-ins and guess what, I don’t add it on to the bill every time I use a specific piece of software. Lots of people do it, it’s how lots and lots of creative things are created. Just having the tools doesn’t mean someone knows what to do with them. That’s like saying an artist is taking all the credit away from the paint and brush manufacturer, or a photographer is actually taking credit away from the camera and lens manufacturers.

            And I am perfectly aware with protectionism, however wanted to protect intellectual property isn’t the same. Surely you know that?

          • lokey

            ‘best way to do that is to sell the software’ is an ASSUMPTION. one which ignores reality in a big way. you’re free to attempt it, but its difficult, and energetically costly, and in-no way guaranteed to be worth your while…

          • Done

            Your right. Screw it. The ppl developing software shouldn’t “ASSUME” they’ll be paid by u idiots.

            Middle finger to all of u. Here comes the new “business model”. Online Subscription service required for each plugin developer you buy from. Paid yearly. Internet connection required to use ALL software.

            If that doesn’t work….add on a extra $50 to the yearly bill bc you’ll now need a iLok as well as a free USB port, Internet connection, and subscription service.

            If that doesn’t work…..software will be linked directly to hardware with DSP. Hardware will depend on the software. Just like UAD…..all software will be installed and ran off of 3rd party DSP hardware instead of your computer.

            If that doesn’t work. All but the largest software companies close due to bankruptcy. Software developers will be forced to find other means of work to feed their families. No more money coming in to feed development and no reason to continue working on quality software.

            Finally……Federal Govt takes control of software development. Govt imposes tax on America for “free” software. All small software companies are extinct. The means to create software is now monitored by the govt.

          • lokey

            gosh youre a negative sod. sorry youre preferred approach has problems! but i hardly think we’re in some doom and gloom situation. dont worry. the kids are alright.

          • lokey

            and whats with all this ‘you idiots’ nonsense? its not like im obliged to support software i dont even use. as i said, if they had tried to monetize camel crusher, it would be a different issue, but i dont/have never used the software they charged for, so im not sure where this abuse comes from.

          • Dutch

            “the same way *everyone* gets paid for their work and makes a living – a day job. If you’re lucky, it’ll be a day job writing software. If you’re really lucky, it’ll be a day job working on the kind of software you want to work on. That, since you appear to be unaware, is what software developers *do*, whether they’re employed by a software publisher or not. Most, oddly enough, aren’t.”

            Hey, so you want to get paid for your day job. Like everybody else with a day job.
            But that money has to come from somewhere don’t you think? Or do you think everyone with a day job works for a company with a filthy rich owner who can pay you and your colleagues for years on without earning anything?

            Companies need to earn money to pay their employees for their day job. Period. So the company you have your day job will need to sell something, most likely the software you are working on. And if that gets pirated no (or not sufficient) income for your company, they can not pay you for your day job and go out of business. So no paid day job for you.
            So please explain the better business model than selling the software using any protection mechanism to avoid piracy. I can’t.

          • ElectroB

            So you’re saying that software developers should be expected to give away their work and support themselves through day jobs at software companies who will also mostly be giving away their work for free because DRM=evil.

          • Jim W.

            Agree completely. I used to write music software. Well reviewed, well loved, lots of happy customers. Didn’t pay the bills. Now I work for Wall Street devising ways to defraud pension plans, all in a perfectly legal way. It’s not as fun, but I live comfortably and sleep well. The market has spoken and the market says that the best talent shouldn’t be writing music plugins.

          • General-Zod

            You work on ways to defraud pension pans and you sleep okay? No wonder hell exists

          • Martin

            from someone who pirated 95% of everything on my computer, stfu and dont justify not paying for it if you can afford it. The model really doesnt matter at all, if you have good products, you have good customer service and reliability, and you have a personable face to the people, people will buy/pay. Theres also many ways companies can fail (if camel audio even failed, the whole story isnt out there yet), and to just blame this all on piracy is just dumb.

          • Wallard

            You’re basically an idiot. Doubt you’re a software developer.

          • A Software Developer

            @just passing,

            Dear mother of all that is, you are either an epic troll or just infinitely stupid. πŸ˜€ Software distribution as a business model is over?! If you are working in software development, please tell us so, but if not, what-the-hell-do-you-know about how software development works and what business models work to software companies?

            And “the moral right of a software developer to eat from that of a blacksmith”? Oh, I’m sorry, did not see you came from the land of World of Warcraft. Before you come here acting all Father Pious, _please oh please_ explain how the current economy relies on the work of blacksmiths rather than software development? Blacksmiths might be a dying breed, but software development? Oh come on…

            Do you not realize that in most cases, putting hobbyists aside, software development IS, in all it’s forms, a f***ing DAY JOB! πŸ˜€ Surprise! Welcome to 2015!

          • senz

            Some folk are still think that you should hang or kill people to solve problems. Well, history taught nothing those people.

            I know that those people b.h. every time they think about someone downloading for free their “precious” creations. Haha, what a silly thought. Is Beethoven be less popular, and less paid for that his creations are now everywhere? Well, we never now. He’s not less genius, indeed.
            As said above, there are many models – some work and some dont. But if object of selling is worth be paid for, most people will. Those “pirates” as you call them, rarely use that soft for commerce, its an alternative to extended trial for them, or they just want to play with that soft for a little while, and words “demo” or “trial” reminds them bad things from the past (when dev truly cripple their software). You play with plugin, if it worth its money, you buy it. Many dev already have that model – look at Reaper. I love those guys, and their success should be discussed, not Korg’s failure.

            P.S.: Naming people stupid – thumbs up. You should look in the mirror.

          • Guest

            “Is Beethoven be less popular, and less paid for that his creations are now everywhere?”

            Amazing. Thank you for that. I had no idea that Beethoven was still alive.

            “if object of selling is worth be paid for, most people will”

            No they won’t. A technological loophole allows them to get it for free, they’ll get it AND make money from it.

            I just have to look at the hundreds of people I’ve run into over the years me doing gigs with cracked copies of Ableton Live, Cubase, Traktor, Guitar Rig and whatnot. Reaper is just that much easier to use for free.

            Do carry on. I enjoy observing phenomena of cognitive dissonance.

          • ElectroB

            “if object of selling is worth be paid for, most people will.”

            No they won’t. If a technological loophole allows them to use it for free, they will.

            I’ve met dozens of people who make money from pirated software, DJ’s using Traktor, guitarists using cracked Guitar Rig copies, producers with illegal cracked Cubase copies in their studios, etc.

            They all said pretty much the same thing you said, but they ended up making money with pirated software anyway, while telling themselves they were “evaluating” or that a few hundred dollars “was too expensive” even after they’d made thousands in a few months that would totally have paid for the software.

            I think there’s a whole lot of cognitive dissonance going around this thread.

          • senz

            Its nice that you’ve finally read text to the end. You should probably delete your “anonymous” comment (;
            People around you are really bad, you should probably leave that place (if your story isnt imaginary) instantly, imho.
            Despite your belief, there are many decent one’s. And business is going on, still.
            I dont think there are much dissonance here, just some trolls and “angry” types, thats it.

          • ElectroB

            My “anonymous comment” is the result of login problems. Lost my original comment while writing and had to re-login and rewrite it, bits and pieces went AWOL. Just add to my “official” comment the Beethoven jab and my thoughts on Reaper. Apologies for the mess.

            Don’t know what you mean by “reading the text to the end”. I always read the texts / posts I’m commenting.

            I won’t go into discussions of whether “people around me are really bad”. But the kind of behaviour I describe is commonplace and verifiable to anyone who has met musicians or DJs who use software to do their work. Anyone here can empirically verify this reality.

            I’ve also met many “decent” ones, of course, including people who had used pirated software because when they barely had money to make ends meet and then went “legit”.

            I also agree there are many trolls and angry types in this thread.

            Among this group we find people who know their behaviour (consciously stealing software products / services even when they have disposable income) has little to no moral justification. And therefore they feel the need to seek validation for their behaviour. Their discomfort is quite evident in their comments.

          • enough passing

            Lol. He thinks your trolling. Seriously?……….

            I guess that makes sense givin “Just Passing’s” reasoning.
            The guy makes absolutely zero sense. I can’t even figure out what his argument is….I guess he thinks it isn’t work. That new aspiring software developers should take out a loan, go to college to learn their craft, and apply it for free. During that time they can just work at McDonalds, while creating free software, to pay off their loans and living expenses. Smh. Computer coding is f’n hard and it’s not for everyone.

            I wonder if he knows how much it costs to develope your own audio software? I mean GOOD software that can compete with the big boys.
            1 person can’t do all the work. They have to hire outside entities to help….and it costs a fortune. Even Steve Duda had to have help from the minds behind Cytomic and Sound Toys for cpu optimization and filter encoding. As smart as Steve is even he couldn’t get the CPU optimization down to halfway reasonable levels in his new synth Serum w/o help from some of the encoding brainiacs @ Sound Toys.

          • Jan Civil

            I use too many things which cannot be replicated by developers that aren’t supported by a robust infrastructure.

            Your last point is bizarre. Is it Camel that [you assume] had an unsound business model and you’re extrapolating that to mean people cannot expect to sell licenses for audio plugins? Because of the evil of Digital Rights Management, because of particular excesses or even mistakes?
            It looks to me like your argumentation is circular to your dislike of paying for things.

          • B.C. Thunderthud

            It seems probable that piracy is a factor limiting the size of the market but considering the sheer number of developers selling more-or-less similar instruments to a fairly mature market it’s unavoidable that some companies are going to fail. If it’s the case that every company is losing money then there’s a problem, otherwise I think the solution is to make better products or compete in a less saturated market.

          • bugaj

            Making a living making something that I can easily acquire with cheap lockpicking tools and carrying it away in my own (free) arms is also a anti-profitable way to make a living. Honestly, everyone should just sell services or battleships. If not, I’m just gonna steal the shit out of it. You’ve been warned, you pathetic anachronisms. And don’t try any of that legislation crap, either. It’s not gonna work, I’m still gonna steal everything that’s small enough for me to carry.

          • lokey

            you’re welcome to try, but stealing physical goods is a demanding job.

          • General-Zod

            Wow you sound like a real loser. You should be proud of yourself.

          • It was satire. He wasn’t serious.

          • PLS

            Someone please stomp this cockroach please.

          • You sound like an aggressive individual. He was joking. Now get back to lynching more innocent people.

          • sacredgeometry

            I wish we could block people from the internet.

        • Paul

          ^ what he said. I don’t think people realize that employees of these companies literally eat and feed their families based upon purchases. It might take years to develop software, meanwhile you’re paying engineers, and programmers the whole time. There’s nothing free in the process at all.

          • Doug

            Software developers eat their families!!??

            Grammar nitpicking/joking aside, I’m also very saddened by this news. I’ve been a Camel Audio customer for years. Alchemy gets all sorts of use here in my studio. They will be sorely missed. I’m hoping that they were bought by another dev, and that it will not be tied down to a single platform.

          • dnbyriverinvan

            In some things Alchemy is the best ive heard.What a drag.Hope all the pirates computers suffer from a perenial BSOD.

      • Done

        Wtf does that mean? U want it free? U want a bunch of ppls knowledge and months/years of hard works for free? U do realize ppl do this for a little living right? I mean….software designers and encoders don’t exactly graduate college after a long and difficult curriculum and dream about applying their craft for free while they work at McDonalds to pay their bills and feed their families. Lol. What do u expect? Software designers on the interstate with signs that read “will write software for food!”

        Ppl these days want a whole lot in exchange for absolutely nothing.

        • lokey

          not the most nuanced riposte ive heard. theres a wide margin between criticizing the business model, and claiming that software should ‘be free’. feel free to try to make a living however you want, but its important to learn from the hardship of others attempting the same approach.

      • General-Zod

        That’s the stupidest thing that I have ever heard. It’s not feasible to pay for things? Imagine a society where people actually had to pay for things!! I guess that means people should go to work for free and do everything for free. Then when it comes to paying their bills they can tell collection companies they work for free. Please sir, enlighten us to a more sustainable business model that doesn’t include allowing people to steal things.

        • lokey

          again with the straw man arguments. no one is suggesting that people who use and benefit from software shouldnt support its development, except doom and gloom people like you, who view pay-for-access models as the only legitimate business models for software. the problem is that these models -dont work- for niche content. you’re free to pursue those models if you wish, but the people who will be successful in the future are those that a) encourage easy micropatronage from those who enjoy or benefit from the software, and b) make their money from services, rather than content. feel free to try other approaches if you like, but dont cry about things when archaic business models built around scarcity fail to deliver a liveable wage.

    • SomeOne

      LOL. It’s clear that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
      Camel audio wasn’t cracked in the last 4years, most developer being
      cracked every second day are alive and well.

    • Owls And Stills

      i don’t think this is a problem that’s going to be fixed anytime soon. and i think that the internet should work like spotify. if you download software, the developer gets a royalty of your monthly internet bill. sounds crazy as fuck right? well we’ve been running around in circles with this argument for too long. imagine if everyone online and everything online was funded with a pay per play model……

    • err0r

      safe to say piracy isnt the culprate here. otherwise how are all those other highly pirated software makers doing so well?

      (Ableton, NI, Avid, Stienberg etc)

    • Martin

      as someone from the thirdworld country that has a job that only exist because of economic imbalances, meaning an outsourced job, I work as much as someone would in the states (and more) for a fraction of the cost. At least piracy isnt persecuted here. Give and take I guess.

    • Theo Artzoglou

      In my opinion it’s not nearly as bad to use pirated software for making fun personal projects. If your going to be making money using it though, buy the damn software.

    • VirtualMark

      Why are you blaming piracy? The cause of their demise could be anything, it’s not yet clear as to why they’ve ceased operations. Perhaps it’s personal reasons or something totally unrelated to piracy.

      Piracy could lower the sales, but that’s assuming that all the pirates were potential customers who would have paid money. The vast majority of people who pirated their stuff probably wouldn’t have bought it anyway.

      If they had low sales, then there could be many reasons for that. Alchemy is a good synth, but it’s not the best and has some fierce competition.

      You should really do some research before making comments like this.

    • zaova

      I have a policy when it comes to ‘pirating’ Audio plugins are tough to demo because if you want people to fully get a feel for what it can offer you unlock too much, vise versa you lock features you then cant show what you can offer. I pirate software solely on the terms that if I like the software enough I purchase it otherwise I uninstall and move on.

    • TheWraith517

      When you SELL a music app you become obligated to provide it to customers (many many apps no longer get sold) But they can still be downloaded by the users who bought it.. When the rumours are flying and you assume its down to piracy, then please explain why people who bought it on iDevices (can no longer find it in the app store?) This is normally something that happens to a company that’s currently under suspicion of piracy, theft or other form of crime investigation (it would certainly explain why its gone 100% from the app store) and unavailable to people who already bout it right? Which has nothing to do with piracy at all, its to do with the fact Apple will no longer host the file for customers who bought it

    • Jaques

      Actually, it turns out they were bought out by Apple. Good going Apple!

    • Edward Furlong

      Wrong assumption. Apple bought the company They’re doing fine.

    • gLOW-x

      NI Waves Image Line… are all pirated since the beginning.
      And they still run fine. Camel messed their business. And we don’t know why.
      Their legit customers will probably need to use the pirated version soon to run their paid software. Think about this point…

    • I’m from the few dumb guys paying for software like Alchemy, but are afraid about the fact that i did not get any updates anymore – inacceptable for such a high poricey product aiming to be a professional tool where users have to work in for some of their valuable hours…

      Can’t hear that “bad crackers make software companies diead” anymore. There are enough options to make cracks so difficult that any professional user would not do that and the kiddies doing that further and use crappy versions would not have the money to buy it…

      Alchemy isn’t available for AAX and my support request broughts: Wait for the next upgrade and buy it – you canΓ„t await a AAX build “for free” – while most others at that time pro Tools 64 bit was coming out brought us free AAX updates… Bad support will not make high prices paying customers happy…

    • pro-crastinate

      just going to jump in there and say that its probably something to do with apple taking them over

      • Look, that comment was 6 months ago, lots of other people have said a similar thing.

  • brettm

    I find it, well, self centred of people to expect a company to instantly release their products for free once they go out of business. I am not in the US but on a business trip I asked some US colleagues about US culture in general. I was surprised to hear them unanimously say that as far as they were concerned americans have an inflated sense of entitlement and this they feel is a large part of the various issues the US has. I wonder if the people here who feel Camel should give this stuff away for free are americans?

    A software business like this builds its entire existence on its software products. these become part of the company’s assets. a value would be given to them for the purposes of financial valuation. when a company goes under, it would typically liquidate its assets. so giving those assets away defeats the purpose of building up their value all those years. even once the bankruptcy is finalized, if the products have not been sold, they still have potential value. afterall, they did sell for many years and people do use them and their value is tied to demand. It is reasonable for those that own the products and the IP associated to them to hold on to them and look for opportunities to get something for all that hard work. Why would they give them away? would you?

    • Not sure what “Americans” have to do with any of this.

      I think as the rest of comments indicate, most people are simply interested in the longevity of a product that they care about. Some are willing to pay for it – and some already have.

    • lokey

      if the choices are give it away, or have it lost forever, the choice is plain. Their business model revolved around pay-for-access, and it obviously didnt work out too well for them. Its sad to see quality programming lost in this way.

      • brettm

        It is still an asset with value. so until the software is deemed to not have any value there is no point in giving it away. this is part of Capitalism, something the majority of you support. so you can’t have your cake and eat it too. I got away relatively safe only buying iOS apps of theirs. whew! I was considering the desktop plugins. dodged a bullet there.

        I agree its a shame. their products are pretty good.

      • Kev2

        Why are you assuming that Camel Audio failed because they charged money to use their product?

        • lokey

          they charged money for some of their products, and gave others away free. So i for one used their free products, and never bought their pay-for-access products. That doesnt seem like a profitable business model. If they had offered me the option of supporting them directly, i would certainly have done so today. But the model they adopted meant that the only financial support they received was from those who purchased their paid products, and that evidently was not sufficient.

          • Kev2

            I don’t know where you are getting your information from, but the entire smartphone ecosystem would not exist if not for the “freemium” model (which by your own admission is to your benefit). If Camel Audio has failed (which is not confirmed) it is because that didn’t scale the pricing model that worked effectively for them in the PC/MAC space to the mobile device space. Case in point: Native Instruments Maschine for PC and iMaschine for IOS. Same program scaled to work on two different platforms, with two different economic models. Both work, because they meet the expectation of two distinct user bases. Alchemy Mobile was priced as though it was Alchemy for PC. There was no reason for Camel Audio to expect that and end user would pay the same freight on both platforms.

          • Charles

            Wait, so if they had made all their software free, instead of just some of it, you might have sent them some money? They DID offer you the option of supporting them directly, and they would have even sent you some software not otherwise available as a thank-you for your small donation. But you never took them up on that.

            It’s pretty rich to blame them for their “pay-for-access” business model when you yourself weren’t willing to pay them anything.

          • lokey

            not what im saying. im saying giving away their (to me) useful software, without asking me to contribute to them, on the assumption that ill then spend money on other software (which was not useful to me) just doesnt make sense. if they had sent me a message (im on their mailing list after all) and said ‘we need support, and you’ve been using camel crusher for years, why not help us out’ would have been more productive than trying to upsell me into alchemy, which as useful as it is to some, simply doesnt fit into my workflow.

          • Charles

            So they should or should not have charged money for their software?

          • lokey

            They certainly didnt give me an opportunity to pay for the only piece of their software i had a reason to use. nor did they ask me to support themthrough other channels. that doesnt seem like a effective business model to me.

  • brettm

    I find it, well, self centred of people to expect a company to instantly release their products for free once they go out of business. I am not in the US but on a business trip I asked some US colleagues about US culture in general. I was surprised to hear them unanimously say that as far as they were concerned americans have an inflated sense of entitlement and this they feel is a large part of the various issues the US has. I wonder if the people here who feel Camel should give this stuff away for free are americans?

    A software business like this builds its entire existence on its software products. these become part of the company’s assets. a value would be given to them for the purposes of financial valuation. when a company goes under, it would typically liquidate its assets. so giving those assets away defeats the purpose of building up their value all those years. even once the bankruptcy is finalized, if the products have not been sold, they still have potential value. afterall, they did sell for many years and people do use them and their value is tied to demand. It is reasonable for those that own the products and the IP associated to them to hold on to them and look for opportunities to get something for all that hard work. Why would they give them away? would you?

    • Not sure what “Americans” have to do with any of this.

      I think as the rest of comments indicate, most people are simply interested in the longevity of a product that they care about. Some are willing to pay for it – and some already have.

    • lokey

      if the choices are give it away, or have it lost forever, the choice is plain. Their business model revolved around pay-for-access, and it obviously didnt work out too well for them. Its sad to see quality programming lost in this way.

      • brettm

        It is still an asset with value. so until the software is deemed to not have any value there is no point in giving it away. this is part of Capitalism, something the majority of you support. so you can’t have your cake and eat it too. I got away relatively safe only buying iOS apps of theirs. whew! I was considering the desktop plugins. dodged a bullet there.

        I agree its a shame. their products are pretty good.

      • Kev2

        Why are you assuming that Camel Audio failed because they charged money to use their product?

        • lokey

          they charged money for some of their products, and gave others away free. So i for one used their free products, and never bought their pay-for-access products. That doesnt seem like a profitable business model. If they had offered me the option of supporting them directly, i would certainly have done so today. But the model they adopted meant that the only financial support they received was from those who purchased their paid products, and that evidently was not sufficient.

          • Kev2

            I don’t know where you are getting your information from, but the entire smartphone ecosystem would not exist if not for the “freemium” model (which by your own admission is to your benefit). If Camel Audio has failed (which is not confirmed) it is because that didn’t scale the pricing model that worked effectively for them in the PC/MAC space to the mobile device space. Case in point: Native Instruments Maschine for PC and iMaschine for IOS. Same program scaled to work on two different platforms, with two different economic models. Both work, because they meet the expectation of two distinct user bases. Alchemy Mobile was priced as though it was Alchemy for PC. There was no reason for Camel Audio to expect that and end user would pay the same freight on both platforms.

          • Charles

            Wait, so if they had made all their software free, instead of just some of it, you might have sent them some money? They DID offer you the option of supporting them directly, and they would have even sent you some software not otherwise available as a thank-you for your small donation. But you never took them up on that.

            It’s pretty rich to blame them for their “pay-for-access” business model when you yourself weren’t willing to pay them anything.

          • lokey

            not what im saying. im saying giving away their (to me) useful software, without asking me to contribute to them, on the assumption that ill then spend money on other software (which was not useful to me) just doesnt make sense. if they had sent me a message (im on their mailing list after all) and said ‘we need support, and you’ve been using camel crusher for years, why not help us out’ would have been more productive than trying to upsell me into alchemy, which as useful as it is to some, simply doesnt fit into my workflow.

          • Charles

            So they should or should not have charged money for their software?

          • lokey

            They certainly didnt give me an opportunity to pay for the only piece of their software i had a reason to use. nor did they ask me to support themthrough other channels. that doesnt seem like a effective business model to me.

  • Elenesski

    Alchemy is my #2 plugin for making music, it’s in almost all my productions as well. You should all have a look at this article. http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/17/how-the-internet-killed-profit/ In a nutshell, if I make something new “A”, I will invest a bunch of R&D and time into creating A and putting it on the internet. My prices for “A” will be such that I have to pay for all the R&D and time, and still make a profit. Company “B” comes along and says “oh cool” and can copy that and sell it for 1/2. Company “C” copies company “B” and sells their version for 1/2, and so on. What chance does “A” have in being revolutionary in design if the customer only wants cheap and isn’t loyal?

    • Thanks for that article. Giving it a proper read later.

      Now, I think at the same time the model in music software hasn’t changed much. It’s just that that model is really tough.

      Hardware, by the way, is challenging in its own ways, too. This just isn’t an easy business to be in.

      • Kev2

        The complexity of the challenge of software development is multiplied exponentially when you attempt a multi-platform approach. Unlike PC and MAC, mobile device developers don’t have to pay “a usage fee” with every transaction. If you want to be on the iPad, you can’t cut out the middle man.

    • lokey

      loyalty is absolutely what this is about. Building a community which actually respects your efforts, and wants to provide you the support to keep going.

  • Elenesski

    Alchemy is my #2 plugin for making music, it’s in almost all my productions as well. You should all have a look at this article. http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/17/how-the-internet-killed-profit/ In a nutshell, if I make something new “A”, I will invest a bunch of R&D and time into creating A and putting it on the internet. My prices for “A” will be such that I have to pay for all the R&D and time, and still make a profit. Company “B” comes along and says “oh cool” and can copy that and sell it for 1/2. Company “C” copies company “B” and sells their version for 1/2, and so on. What chance does “A” have in being revolutionary in design if the customer only wants cheap and isn’t loyal?

    • Thanks for that article. Giving it a proper read later.

      Now, I think at the same time the model in music software hasn’t changed much. It’s just that that model is really tough.

      Hardware, by the way, is challenging in its own ways, too. This just isn’t an easy business to be in.

      • Kev2

        The complexity of the challenge of software development is multiplied exponentially when you attempt a multi-platform approach. Unlike PC and MAC, mobile device developers don’t have to pay “a usage fee” with every transaction. If you want to be on the iPad, you can’t cut out the middle man.

    • lokey

      loyalty is absolutely what this is about. Building a community which actually respects your efforts, and wants to provide you the support to keep going.

  • Darren Landrum

    I have Alchemy, and use it though not as much as I’d like. It’s a great program for found sound and field recording manipulation.

    My only concern with companies going under is one of licensing: will I be able to continue to use products I bought and paid for as I upgrade (or repair) my hardware? Alchemy doesn’t make this an issue; I have my installer and it just works, no need for it to “phone home.”

    However, I also have the AAS Modeling Suite. Those all require a challenge/response authentication which requires the license server to be working which requires the company be in business. If AAS goes under, that means I could no longer use my bought-and-paid-for plugins on my new upgraded computer.

    THAT is why there’s often a call for going-out-of-business software companies to release their products license-free. I seem to recall this exact issue happening with Kjaerhaus Audio some years back.

  • Darren Landrum

    I have Alchemy, and use it though not as much as I’d like. It’s a great program for found sound and field recording manipulation.

    My only concern with companies going under is one of licensing: will I be able to continue to use products I bought and paid for as I upgrade (or repair) my hardware? Alchemy doesn’t make this an issue; I have my installer and it just works, no need for it to “phone home.”

    However, I also have the AAS Modeling Suite. Those all require a challenge/response authentication which requires the license server to be working which requires the company be in business. If AAS goes under, that means I could no longer use my bought-and-paid-for plugins on my new upgraded computer.

    THAT is why there’s often a call for going-out-of-business software companies to release their products license-free. I seem to recall this exact issue happening with Kjaerhaus Audio some years back.

  • Arno Natte

    Just bought Alchemy synth yesterday!!!! Today I was looking for packs and all was gone… What can I do?? I’m going crazy if they make it for free. E200,00 flushed away.

    • It isn’t flushed away if you enjoyed the software enough to purchase it, you are supporting an incredibly niche industry. As with Xbox Games with Gold; what costs today may be free next month, and that’s fine, if you couldn’t afford it the €200 then you shouldn’t have bought it and should have chosen a free or cheaper soft synth, so all in all I wouldn’t complain if you enjoyed it enough to actually buy it. (- :

      • aaron

        Comparing authoring software to video games is like comparing a tooth pick to a bottle cap. Doesn’t make any sense.

    • Sean

      Hmmm…I purchased Alchemy Complete last night direct from Camel Audio (Β£579). At this time they clearly new things we’re about finish – I’m left with software that will probably be useless within 18 months (when it’ starts crashing AU Validation). The situation sucks and i’m bitterly disappointed at the way this was done.

  • Arno Natte

    Just bought Alchemy synth yesterday!!!! Today I was looking for packs and all was gone… What can I do?? I’m going crazy if they make it for free. E200,00 flushed away.

    • It isn’t flushed away if you enjoyed the software enough to purchase it, you are supporting an incredibly niche industry. As with Xbox Games with Gold; what costs today may be free next month, and that’s fine, if you couldn’t afford it the €200 then you shouldn’t have bought it and should have chosen a free or cheaper soft synth, so all in all I wouldn’t complain if you enjoyed it enough to actually buy it. (- :

      • aaron

        Comparing authoring software and licensing to video game give aways is like comparing a tooth pick to a bottle cap. Doesn’t make any sense.

    • Sean

      Hmmm…I purchased Alchemy Complete last night direct from Camel Audio (Β£579). At this time they clearly new things we’re about finish – I’m left with software that will probably be useless within 18 months (when it’ starts crashing AU Validation). The situation sucks and i’m bitterly disappointed at the way this was done.

  • David

    This is why I buy plugins that I actually use. Including this one. Wish more people had. :/

  • David

    This is why I buy plugins that I actually use. Including this one. Wish more people had. :/

  • Xebulon

    Wow sad news. I wish there had been more of a heads-up to give people a chance to buy sound packs before they were taken down from the store. I usually try to only get 1 or 2 every couple of months to keep my gear lust in check, but would have bought a bunch more if I knew they’d no longer be available to purchase. Ironically now the pirate scene may be my only option to get those packs…

  • Bryan

    perhaps a crowd funding or group support / group buy effort could resurrect them and if so then I would also suggest a sale to sell it at a no brainer price of $50 or $25 one time just to see how many people would jump at that. A going out of business sales always works for furniture stores. They then say they made enough to stay in business. Then they can charge full price for the newer version and those who love it will upgrade to keep the company going. Hopefully who ever they sell the company assets to is going to maintain this as legacy software. Do the sound bank authors who sell through their site have any rights to continue to market their banks? I was planning on buying this software in the near future as I got paid on a business deal that is going through so I can look at this as a very bad thing or I dodged a bullet from buying software that is now EOL. Omnisphere is now the only choice out there for me. I had the free version and will archive it now but this is a dark day in the vsti software world.

  • Xebulon

    Wow sad news. I wish there had been more of a heads-up to give people a chance to buy sound packs before they were taken down from the store. I usually try to only get 1 or 2 every couple of months to keep my gear lust in check, but would have bought a bunch more if I knew they’d no longer be available to purchase. Ironically now the pirate scene may be my only option to get those packs…

  • Bryan

    perhaps a crowd funding or group support / group buy effort could resurrect them and if so then I would also suggest a sale to sell it at a no brainer price of $50 or $25 one time just to see how many people would jump at that. A going out of business sales always works for furniture stores. They then say they made enough to stay in business. Then they can charge full price for the newer version and those who love it will upgrade to keep the company going. Hopefully who ever they sell the company assets to is going to maintain this as legacy software. Do the sound bank authors who sell through their site have any rights to continue to market their banks? I was planning on buying this software in the near future as I got paid on a business deal that is going through so I can look at this as a very bad thing or I dodged a bullet from buying software that is now EOL. Omnisphere is now the only choice out there for me. I had the free version and will archive it now but this is a dark day in the vsti software world.

  • Hank

    ive been getting burned by music software vendors going out of business consistently since the 90s. its a risk you take when purchasing software. its part of why i take issue with some manufacturers who price their softwares crazily high. in my version of an ideal world, no plug-in would be more than $99 and no DAW would be more than $250.
    the app markets of iOS and Android have shown time and time again that quantities of scale work to their benefit in those cases. sure, you do get the “race to the bottom” in app pricing, but in a lot of cases it ends up filtering out the cruft; the quality apps (ie Waldorf Nave, PPG WaveMapper, Animoog) rise to the top and stay there.

    im sad to see CA go, but i honestly was never a fan of their UIs at all which made me never really explore them much. good sound though.

    • Charles

      That’s some great circular logic there – “software companies might go out of business, therefore they should charge less money for their products”.

      • Hank

        no, its called economies of scale. sell something at $5, you’ll get a lot more people in the door than you would selling something at $50. a good software comparison in the mobile world is the success of Saitara’s line of control apps (priced reasonably under $10) and the continued relative obscurity of ProRemote, which for a very long time was one of the most expensive iOS audio-related apps out there and even after being lowered to $50 and now to $43, still barely sells.

      • Hank

        another great comparison is the manufacturer AudioDamage mentioned in this article. AD has *ALWAYS* employed fair and reasonable pricing in their business model and not charging exorbitant pricing for their products. look where they are now. not only are they succeeding in the software space, they’re expanding into hardware. just like another little company called Arturia, who has experienced massive success since dropping their prices from the ridiculous $250/per plugin to the far more reasonably priced V collection, theyve had the resources to expand into an entire line of hardware units.

        its business 101. charge too much for your product, you go out of business. you watch trends, you respond appropriately by lowering pricing or changing features, you stay in business. those who dont close up shop.

    • I don’t agree at all with your pricing scheme…though I would love it for my own personal use. I work in post, and a DAW for $250 would easily be paid off after one gig….shouldn’t the software I use to do my job be worth more than a single gig? I feel that way, even if I would LOVE to pay less. Also, we usually use a single upgrade for years (in PT, I got away with 7 for like 4 years, and we’re going to use 10 until it can’t support our work and we have to upgrade our hardware).

      Let’s just take in to consideration how much they need to make to pay off their expenses. Assuming 40 employees for a relatively small company (when factoring in HR, Accounts, Programmers, Designers, Sound Designers, Testers, Support, Web, etc), at what, maybe an average of 70K a year salary. $2.8M just for employees! (i’m saying that Camel Audio is that big or small, just stabbing in the dark) A company like that would need to sell 28,283 licenses of a soft synth a year just to pay their employees! Even if they only had 20 employees, they would need to sell over 14K new products every year in a niche community every year just to cover payroll. Then add on rent, insurance, taxes, upkeep, the software they need to use to make their product, their computers, etc…what does that come to?

      In my opinion, the app catalog of iOS and Android has also shown time and time again, people still pay more for quality, and a lot of those success stories of cheaper ($50 a cheap app?) pieces of software on iOs are from companies that also sell software at a higher price for full OSes. For games, it seems to be a race to the bottom. All the companies I work with that used to put together great visual, nice story, long interesting games now have to push out games in 1/8 of the time for 1/12th of the budget with the freemium model……. I’m just saying…when I’m making money using a product, I don’t mind paying for it, especially when it’s as good of a product like Alchemy. There’s definitely something to be said about lowering the price to get more people, but it’s always a fine line of how many sales you think you could actually make? Just my two cents on pricing….

      • All entries on this blog appear to be 4 – 5 months old. Does anyone have any news on what the predecessor of Alchemy Mobile will be? I absolutely loved that app and will miss it. Need a replacement.

  • Hank

    ive been getting burned by music software vendors going out of business consistently since the 90s. its a risk you take when purchasing software. its part of why i take issue with some manufacturers who price their softwares crazily high. in my version of an ideal world, no plug-in would be more than $99 and no DAW would be more than $250.
    the app markets of iOS and Android have shown time and time again that quantities of scale work to their benefit in those cases. sure, you do get the “race to the bottom” in app pricing, but in a lot of cases it ends up filtering out the cruft; the quality apps (ie Waldorf Nave, PPG WaveMapper, Animoog) rise to the top and stay there.

    im sad to see CA go, but i honestly was never a fan of their UIs at all which made me never really explore them much. good sound though.

    • Charles

      That’s some great circular logic there – “software companies might go out of business, therefore they should charge less money for their products”.

      • Hank

        no, its called economies of scale. sell something at $5, you’ll get a lot more people in the door than you would selling something at $50. a good software comparison in the mobile world is the success of Saitara’s line of control apps (priced reasonably under $10) and the continued relative obscurity of ProRemote, which for a very long time was one of the most expensive iOS audio-related apps out there and even after being lowered to $50 and now to $43, still barely sells.

      • Hank

        another great comparison is the manufacturer AudioDamage mentioned in this article. AD has *ALWAYS* employed fair and reasonable pricing in their business model and not charging exorbitant pricing for their products. look where they are now. not only are they succeeding in the software space, they’re expanding into hardware. just like another little company called Arturia, who has experienced massive success since dropping their prices from the ridiculous $250/per plugin to the far more reasonably priced V collection, theyve had the resources to expand into an entire line of hardware units.

        its business 101. charge too much for your product, you go out of business. you watch trends, you respond appropriately by lowering pricing or changing features, you stay in business. those who dont close up shop.

    • I don’t agree at all with your pricing scheme…though I would love it for my own personal use. I work in post, and a DAW for $250 would easily be paid off after one gig….shouldn’t the software I use to do my job be worth more than a single gig? I feel that way, even if I would LOVE to pay less. Also, we usually use a single upgrade for years (in PT, I got away with 7 for like 4 years, and we’re going to use 10 until it can’t support our work and we have to upgrade our hardware).

      Let’s just take in to consideration how much they need to make to pay off their expenses. Assuming 40 employees for a relatively small company (when factoring in HR, Accounts, Programmers, Designers, Sound Designers, Testers, Support, Web, etc), at what, maybe an average of 70K a year salary. $2.8M just for employees! (i’m saying that Camel Audio is that big or small, just stabbing in the dark) A company like that would need to sell 28,283 licenses of a soft synth a year just to pay their employees! Even if they only had 20 employees, they would need to sell over 14K new products every year in a niche community every year just to cover payroll. Then add on rent, insurance, taxes, upkeep, the software they need to use to make their product, their computers, etc…what does that come to?

      In my opinion, the app catalog of iOS and Android has also shown time and time again, people still pay more for quality, and a lot of those success stories of cheaper ($50 a cheap app?) pieces of software on iOs are from companies that also sell software at a higher price for full OSes. For games, it seems to be a race to the bottom. All the companies I work with that used to put together great visual, nice story, long interesting games now have to push out games in 1/8 of the time for 1/12th of the budget with the freemium model……. I’m just saying…when I’m making money using a product, I don’t mind paying for it, especially when it’s as good of a product like Alchemy. There’s definitely something to be said about lowering the price to get more people, but it’s always a fine line of how many sales you think you could actually make? Just my two cents on pricing….

      • All entries on this blog appear to be 4 – 5 months old. Does anyone have any news on what the predecessor of Alchemy Mobile will be? I absolutely loved that app and will miss it. Need a replacement.

  • rznite

    Someone on the Propellerhead forum has revealed that they knew of buy out talks between Apple and Camel Audio. http://imgur.com/VZ7CqRW

  • rznite

    Someone on the Propellerhead forum has revealed that they knew of buy out talks between Apple and Camel Audio. http://imgur.com/VZ7CqRW

  • Jezz

    No record of my purchases on the site … better check yours … πŸ™

  • Jezz

    No record of my purchases on the site … better check yours … πŸ™

  • JoeySchmidt

    No, godammit no.

  • JoeySchmidt

    No, godammit no.

  • charlesmaynes

    we dont know why Camel stopped- and it seems unlikely that piracy had much to do with it on the surface-

    I do hope they do something like Redmatica did where they did specific build of their apps so they could moved by the licensee’s to new drives or machines.

  • charlesmaynes

    we dont know why Camel stopped- and it seems unlikely that piracy had much to do with it on the surface-

    I do hope they do something like Redmatica did where they did specific build of their apps so they could moved by the licensee’s to new drives or machines.

  • Twisted Boom

    Looks like Apple bought the rights to their software, according to a few insiders at KVR.

    • noisemaker

      Why would Apple ruin another company. They bought Redmatica and did nothing with it. That was like 3 years ago. Logic X is a messy little devil. Maybe they have something mind blowing coming up? Doubt it…

    • ElectroB

      I’m not familiar enough with Alchemy, but I’ve met people who used it frequently and were total fans of its sample manipulation features.

      Maybe Apple wants to revamp its sampler, or add a new sampler-synthesizer to Logic’s arsenal?

  • Twisted Boom

    Looks like Apple may have bought the rights to their software, according to a few insiders at KVR.

    • noisemaker

      Why would Apple ruin another company. They bought Redmatica and did nothing with it. That was like 3 years ago. Logic X is a messy little devil. Maybe they have something mind blowing coming up? Doubt it…

    • ElectroB

      I’m not familiar enough with Alchemy, but I’ve met people who used it frequently and were total fans of its sample manipulation features.

      Maybe Apple wants to revamp its sampler, or add a new sampler-synthesizer to Logic’s arsenal?

  • Jan Gerhard

    Well, now that crowdfounding campains are hip at the moment: As Camel Audio I’d start a “Alchemy 2” crowdfounding campain. From Version 1 they should be able to roughly calculate the costs of this program and add some more for after sales support and updates.

  • Jan Gerhard

    Well, now that crowdfounding campains are hip at the moment: As Camel Audio I’d start a “Alchemy 2” crowdfounding campain. From Version 1 they should be able to roughly calculate the costs of this program and add some more for after sales support and updates.

  • Noisemaker

    This doesn’t sound like a moneyPiracy issue but more of a partnership gone bad and someone is proving a point to the other. Just my 2 cents. I loved them and solid synth they made.

  • Noisemaker

    This doesn’t sound like a moneyPiracy issue but more of a partnership gone bad and someone is proving a point to the other. Just my 2 cents. I loved them and solid synth they made.

  • Graham Metcalfe

    Damn. I love the iOS version and have all the libraries. I finally got around to buying the desktop version last year and it’s one of my favorite soundscape tools. I’m very sad to hear about this.

  • Graham Metcalfe

    Damn. I love the iOS version and have all the libraries. I finally got around to buying the desktop version last year and it’s one of my favorite soundscape tools. I’m very sad to hear about this.

  • Maciej Tyryllo

    This debate is pointless :
    Regardless of how we feel about piracy or illegal acquisition of soft
    We who pay for it are like Greeks against Persians .
    One guy that i spoke to told me in simple words, for 1 copy sold 100 get ripped .
    One universal dongle system would be nice …
    Recently I bought bunch of Vengeance plug-ins that run with a dongle and I do not see them available for free anywhere, which leads me to belief that there is a solution ….
    For most part I agree with Tom .

  • Maciej Tyryllo

    This debate is pointless :
    Regardless of how we feel about piracy or illegal acquisition of soft
    We who pay for it are like Greeks against Persians .
    One guy that i spoke to told me in simple words, for 1 copy sold 100 get ripped .
    One universal dongle system would be nice …
    Recently I bought bunch of Vengeance plug-ins that run with a dongle and I do not see them available for free anywhere, which leads me to belief that there is a solution ….
    For most part I agree with Tom .

  • This is soooo, sad! I had my taste for Alchemy, through Chameleon 5000 as preloaded synth, with Alchemy, Camel Phat and Camel Crusher through Receptor sound module. It was so good and original, the sound manipulation so great, I kept contemplating their site, always dreaming to collect enough money to buy the whole package ( it was 849 $). I guess I’ll never be able to, now…The amount of sounds was enormous. I strongly believe that someone will take over and reproduce that. Of course, whoever that would be, they’d sell it piece by piece and on much higher price…If that was due to piracy, well shame, shame, shame…

  • This is soooo, sad! I had my taste for Alchemy, through Chameleon 5000 as preloaded synth, with Alchemy, Camel Phat and Camel Crusher through Receptor sound module. It was so good and original, the sound manipulation so great, I kept contemplating their site, always dreaming to collect enough money to buy the whole package ( it was 849 $). I guess I’ll never be able to, now…The amount of sounds was enormous. I strongly believe that someone will take over and reproduce that. Of course, whoever that would be, they’d sell it piece by piece and on much higher price…If that was due to piracy, well shame, shame, shame…

  • Joe Mama

    Camel’s latest versions tweeks haven’t been cracked which I believe make like the past 5-10 libraries released un-piratable either. There are newer softsynths that excel in the VA and spectral synthesis department over Alchemy. I bought Alchemy a few years back, and there are still unfixed glitches with sample loading and looping.

    • Joe Mama

      …on the bright side it’s modulation matrix was insane.

      • Joe Mama

        …some of the presets in the libraries had insanely slow loading times… and the more libraries you owned the longer it would take to load on a midi channel…talking 20 secs to a minute…

  • Joe Mama

    Camel’s latest versions tweeks haven’t been cracked which I believe make like the past 5-10 libraries released un-piratable either. There are newer softsynths that excel in the VA and spectral synthesis department over Alchemy. I bought Alchemy a few years back, and there are still unfixed glitches with sample loading and looping.

    • Joe Mama

      …on the bright side it’s modulation matrix was insane.

      • Joe Mama

        …some of the presets in the libraries had insanely slow loading times… and the more libraries you owned the longer it would take to load on a midi channel…talking 20 secs to a minute…

  • Graham Metcalfe

    If you are like me and have a number of libraries for the iOS version, the folks at Camel Audio have provided me with the instructions on how to back up your libraries so they won’t be lost in case of a crash or buying a new iDevice:

    “We are currently working on a few ways to back up iOS libraries so that
    you’ll be able to reinstall them in the future. For now, you can use a
    free desktop app called ‘iFunbox.

    Note: Song files will need to be backed up separately via iCloud or Dropbox.

    Backing up using iFunbox (http://www.i-funbox.com):

    1) Connect your device to your computer

    2) In iFunbox, expand ‘User Applications’ using the disclosure arrow (circled below)

    3) Go to Alchemy / Library and drag and drop the
    ‘Private Documents’ folder to the backup location on your computer (in
    our example above, we’ve created a folder called ‘iFunbox Backup’. This
    could take a few minutes depending on how many libraries you have saved
    on your iOS device

    4) Next, highlight ‘User Applications’, to see a grid of your installed application icons.

    5) Right click Alchemy and select ‘Backup to .ipa package’ -> ‘Without Personal Data’

    6) It makes sense to save it to the same place as the Private Documents folder.

    Restoring Alchemy Mobile + Libraries From Backup Using iFunbox:

    1) Connect your device to your computer

    2) In iFunbox, select ‘Install App’ from the menu bar at the top of the window

    3) Locate the .ipa file that iFunbox created when backing up the app

    4) Double-click the .ipa file to install Alchemy to your device

    5) Next, expand User Applications as above, and go to Alchemy/Library

    6) Drag and drop the ‘Private Documents’ file across. If given the option to Replace or Merge, select ‘Merge’.

    Hope this helps – thanks for your kind words, it’s really appreciated.”

  • Graham Metcalfe

    If you are like me and have a number of libraries for the iOS version, the folks at Camel Audio have provided me with the instructions on how to back up your libraries so they won’t be lost in case of a crash or buying a new iDevice:

    “We are currently working on a few ways to back up iOS libraries so that
    you’ll be able to reinstall them in the future. For now, you can use a
    free desktop app called ‘iFunbox.

    Note: Song files will need to be backed up separately via iCloud or Dropbox.

    Backing up using iFunbox (http://www.i-funbox.com):

    1) Connect your device to your computer

    2) In iFunbox, expand ‘User Applications’ using the disclosure arrow (circled below)

    3) Go to Alchemy / Library and drag and drop the
    ‘Private Documents’ folder to the backup location on your computer (in
    our example above, we’ve created a folder called ‘iFunbox Backup’. This
    could take a few minutes depending on how many libraries you have saved
    on your iOS device

    4) Next, highlight ‘User Applications’, to see a grid of your installed application icons.

    5) Right click Alchemy and select ‘Backup to .ipa package’ -> ‘Without Personal Data’

    6) It makes sense to save it to the same place as the Private Documents folder.

    Restoring Alchemy Mobile + Libraries From Backup Using iFunbox:

    1) Connect your device to your computer

    2) In iFunbox, select ‘Install App’ from the menu bar at the top of the window

    3) Locate the .ipa file that iFunbox created when backing up the app

    4) Double-click the .ipa file to install Alchemy to your device

    5) Next, expand User Applications as above, and go to Alchemy/Library

    6) Drag and drop the ‘Private Documents’ file across. If given the option to Replace or Merge, select ‘Merge’.

    Hope this helps – thanks for your kind words, it’s really appreciated.”

  • Keith Crosley

    Pretty sure the (insanely stupid) EU VAT tax changes regarding digital goods are behind this:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidprosser/2015/01/06/europes-vat-shake-up-hits-small-businesses/

    Expect this to happen to any other small European music software devs as well.

  • Keith Crosley

    Pretty sure the (insanely stupid) EU VAT tax changes regarding digital goods are behind this:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidprosser/2015/01/06/europes-vat-shake-up-hits-small-businesses/

    Expect this to happen to any other small European music software devs as well.

  • Stereospread

    I think there’s no actual way to figure out what’s going on unless you actually talk to Camel Audio- Maybe they sold off, Maybe they were bought-out, etc. Whatever it is, this is all speculation til someone goes off and gets a response from them.

  • Stereospread

    I think there’s no actual way to figure out what’s going on unless you actually talk to Camel Audio- Maybe they sold off, Maybe they were bought-out, etc. Whatever it is, this is all speculation til someone goes off and gets a response from them.

  • aaron

    I suspect this has far more to do with the increasingly tiresome amount of work it took to continue to develope Alchemy. it’s expansion library, and a dwindling new-user base more than anything.

  • aaron

    I suspect this has far more to do with the increasingly tiresome amount of work it took to continue to develope Alchemy. it’s expansion library, and a dwindling new-user base more than anything.

    Ever been to a guitar center or similar shop and looked at it’s library and sample shelves? I’ve always referred to that as a graveyard. This is that. I almost expect FXPansion to follow CA’s lead in closing down.

  • Guest

    Apple bought them.

  • Guest

    Apple bought them.

  • Paprika

    I crack all I can and sleep at night as a baby! Its up to business plan and company head departament to not sink company! Why others big software companys make milions and still a lot of people don’t pay a license? Always blame others for Yours mistakes is that Yours life motto ????

  • Paprika

    I crack all I can and sleep at night as a baby! Its up to business plan and company head departament to not sink company! Why others big software companys make milions and still a lot of people don’t pay a license? Always blame others for Yours mistakes is that Yours life motto ????

  • Mark

    Apple bought Camel Audio.

  • Mark

    Apple bought Camel Audio.

  • IRS4

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

  • IRS4

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

  • landlords

    Theres plenty of room in the universe to find new things to do once a market becomes oversaturated. Pirates don’t win, you know who wins? It’s the landlords who charged rent to this company and its employees. Money they’ll never get back in any way shape or form.

  • landlords

    Theres plenty of room in the universe to find new things to do once a market becomes oversaturated. Pirates don’t win, you know who wins? It’s the landlords who charged rent to this company and its employees. Money they’ll never get back in any way shape or form.

  • Tekknovator

    It is most likely not belly up. Return of Allotment of shares filed on January 9th 2015

    Read more at: http://companycheck.co.uk/company/04821737/CAMEL-AUDIO-LIMITED/companies-house-docs#other-documents

  • Tekknovator

    It is most likely not belly up. Return of Allotment of shares filed on January 9th 2015

    Read more at: http://companycheck.co.uk/company/04821737/CAMEL-AUDIO-LIMITED/companies-house-docs#other-documents

  • keathlink

    Thanks for posting this

  • keathlink

    Thanks for posting this

  • General-Zod

    Another fantastic VST company that bites the dust because a bunch of losers wouldn’t even support them financially. “Oh you can’t expect me to pay for that, it’s to much”. Imagine a capitalist economy or any economy that employs this method. People go to work and develop products only to have the general public steal those products. Company makes no money, employees are laid off and they can’t pay their bills.

    When you download a torrent that has a product that should otherwise be paying for – that’s calling stealing. Not downloading. When you buy a plugin – you don’t own it. You own a license to use it. This generation of kids and young punks that won’t pay for things is going to destroy the music software industry. Even big name DJs and Producers are not paying for plugins. Steve Aoki and Martin Garix are perfect examples of using Team Air cracked copies of Sylenth. That’s okay – it’s only a matter of time before the industry collapses or the companies are force to license the most aggressive copyright protection schemes to protect their products. Like Ilok2 or Code Master (What Propelerhead uses).

  • General-Zod

    Another fantastic VST company that bites the dust because a bunch of losers wouldn’t even support them financially. “Oh you can’t expect me to pay for that, it’s to much”. Imagine a capitalist economy or any economy that employs this method. People go to work and develop products only to have the general public steal those products. Company makes no money, employees are laid off and they can’t pay their bills.

    When you download a torrent that has a product that should otherwise be paying for – that’s calling stealing. Not downloading. When you buy a plugin – you don’t own it. You own a license to use it. This generation of kids and young punks that won’t pay for things is going to destroy the music software industry. Even big name DJs and Producers are not paying for plugins. Steve Aoki and Martin Garix are perfect examples of using Team Air cracked copies of Sylenth. That’s okay – it’s only a matter of time before the industry collapses or the companies are force to license the most aggressive copyright protection schemes to protect their products. Like Ilok2 or Code Master (What Propelerhead uses).

  • GetYourFactsStraight

    Tom Lowe what are you even talking about? There hasn’t been a cracked version of Camel Alchemy for like 3+ years or any of the libraries in that time. Find a new scapegoat because that is a ridiculous assumption to make not having all the information. Looks like you were just waiting for an opportunity to bust that one out to push your own anti-warez agenda. Funny how their utterly ludicrous protection schemes don’t make you consider than perhaps people don’t want to support companies like that and they shouldn’t. The interesting thing is I know quite a few people that use warez yet were actually legit Camel Audio customers. Customers who just got screwed I might add.

  • GetYourFactsStraight

    Tom Lowe what are you even talking about? There hasn’t been a cracked version of Camel Alchemy for like 3+ years or any of the libraries in that time. Find a new scapegoat because that is a ridiculous assumption to make not having all the information. Looks like you were just waiting for an opportunity to bust that one out to push your own anti-warez agenda. Funny how their utterly ludicrous protection schemes don’t make you consider than perhaps people don’t want to support companies like that and they shouldn’t. The interesting thing is I know quite a few people that use warez yet were actually legit Camel Audio customers. Customers who just got screwed I might add.

  • Video_Download_Reviewer

    Therefore we will try other downloaders, why won’t we try Download Surgeon?

  • Video_Download_Reviewer

    Therefore we will try other downloaders, why won’t we try Download Surgeon?

  • Video_Download_Reviewer

    Therefore we will try other downloaders, why won’t we try Download Surgeon?

  • Video_Download_Reviewer

    Therefore we will try other downloaders, why won’t we try Download Surgeon?

  • Bryan McGuire

    Tom Lowe, buddy, piracy don’t explain Alchemy’s stunning lack of popularity.

  • B.

    Tom Lowe, buddy, piracy don’t explain Alchemy’s stunning lack of popularity.

  • Langbehn

    It’s unbelievable, some of the crap that I’m reading on here from the “everything should be free” crowd. It turns my stomach. There is a basic moral principal that these sociopaths refuse to consider. If I tell you that I’ve created something and that I will give it to you for a certain price, then you do not have a right to take it from me for free. It’s called stealing. You can negotiate with me for a better price, that’s called economics, but demanding it for free? If you can break into a convenience store and carry away all that you can cart out, is that legitimate? Now if I voluntarily create a shareware paradigm for my software, then that’s another thing. If shareware developers can figure out a way to make things work economically such that directly-competing for-profit developers can’t make a go of it with their business model and pricing, then so be it. That’s also economics. But if I can’t make a living because you steal all of my stuff, then that’s just a breakdown of basic moral behavior.
    I’m not going to argue with anyone about this. I’m saying my piece and getting out of here. IN my book, if you think you have a right to pirate software, then I think you’re a despicable person with no moral compass, and I don’t have any time for you. Period.

  • Langbehn

    It’s unbelievable, some of the crap that I’m reading on here from the “everything should be free” crowd. It turns my stomach. There is a basic moral principal that these sociopaths refuse to consider. If I tell you that I’ve created something and that I will give it to you for a certain price, then you do not have a right to take it from me for free. It’s called stealing. You can negotiate with me for a better price, that’s called economics, but demanding it for free? If you can break into a convenience store and carry away all that you can cart out, is that legitimate? Now if I voluntarily create a shareware paradigm for my software, then that’s another thing. If shareware developers can figure out a way to make things work economically such that directly-competing for-profit developers can’t make a go of it with their business model and pricing, then so be it. That’s also economics. But if I can’t make a living because you steal all of my stuff, then that’s just a breakdown of basic moral behavior.
    I’m not going to argue with anyone about this. I’m saying my piece and getting out of here. IN my book, if you think you have a right to pirate software, then I think you’re a despicable person with no moral compass, and I don’t have any time for you. Period.

  • Adamo Fiscella

    The answer is simple. The market is flooded with software plugins, which should have driven the prices down. These companies need to price their software more reasonably if they want to avoid piracy.

  • Adamo Fiscella

    The answer is simple. The market is flooded with software plugins, which should have driven the prices down. These companies need to price their software more reasonably if they want to avoid piracy.

  • Nikolozi
    • griotspeak

      This would be an interesting twist. It would be especially interesting given how everyone was inclined to read this as a failure to sustain themselves.

      • Nikolozi

        yeah, I was thinking the same thing – everyone jumped to the wrong conclusion.

  • Nikolozi
    • griotspeak

      This would be an interesting twist. It would be especially interesting given how everyone was inclined to read this as a failure to sustain themselves.

      • Nikolozi

        yeah, I was thinking the same thing – everyone jumped to the wrong conclusion.

  • Steve

    If the rumors are true then they got Borged by Apple.

  • Steve

    If the rumors are true then they got Borged by Apple.

  • DavidT
  • DavidT
  • The duped

    Can I get alchemy for iPad guys ?????

  • The duped

    Can I get alchemy for iPad guys ?????

  • JFairweather

    The outfit has been purchased by Apple. Look for these instruments to appear in a future version of Logic Pro.

  • JFairweather

    The outfit has been purchased by Apple. Look for these instruments to appear in a future version of Logic Pro.

  • I really enjoyed their software and personally purchased few of them. I am sad to see them go away, because their products were great and most important affordable. Too bad.

  • I really enjoyed their software and personally purchased few of them. I am sad to see them go away, because their products were great and most important affordable. Too bad.

  • Ryan Baker

    Would anyone be able to direct me to where I could download this plugin? I think I am too late to sign up now the signup page from their website is missing. If not, maybe someone could lend me a login please?? Cheers!

  • Ryan Baker

    Would anyone be able to direct me to where I could download this plugin? I think I am too late to sign up now the signup page from their website is missing. If not, maybe someone could lend me a login please?? Cheers!

  • T

    It’s been a good 3 months and I still can’t get over it. I postponed buying it because I was saving up for it. And 2 weeks before I went to the website to buy it… They stopped. I’m so willing to pay for a license, but I can’t… argh…..

  • T

    It’s been a good 3 months and I still can’t get over it. I postponed buying it because I was saving up for it. And 2 weeks before I went to the website to buy it… They stopped. I’m so willing to pay for a license, but I can’t… argh…..

  • Gid

    anyone had problems retrieving password from camel audio site? My email addresses aren’t recognised and no reply from camel after emailing from my purchase confirmation mail. sorry if this is off topic.

  • Gid

    anyone had problems retrieving password from camel audio site? My email addresses aren’t recognised and no reply from camel after emailing from my purchase confirmation mail. sorry if this is off topic.

  • The M

    Ok mostly i agree but is it not so that mostly a lot of people including my self have downloaded not legal VST synth software simply because the real thing needs mostly 5 udpates to function properly. ( have 3 cubase dwas Paiad in full and now there is an other version???
    I mean i use Spectrasonics vst and that’s a LEGAL working NO Bugs Synth.
    I do not need a quick fancy update in need a SUPER no problem running SYNTH!
    Do not mean that Alchemy is not but the most charge for updates that did not work from the first time in stalling and only focus on selling in stead of making it stable in the first place. Yes i do have all box versions and even paid more tho have those ( in stead of the Download version , easy for them to sell that all over the world…but no client contact personal i mean…)
    Then the price tags make it affordable it’s world wide selling… how much do you thing it will sell around the planet and if it is around 50,- to 100,- more will use it the legal way.
    Like students…. and the support is quality as well.
    Sorry that they have to close down but i do not know how much they spend on Marketing.
    Also i like to visit a STORE instead going on line , think about how the web is Killing the Business in the first place ill visit a store in Amsterdam MIDI and the people who work there have been Cut from the Software companies pure to make more profit….

    They are the ones that sell you a quality product and can reply on your personal needs
    And if your product is Quality they will sell you that what is best for you.

    And i am in the movie industry that’s the biggest illegal download industry but they are making it affordable to download a new movie so illegal downloads are less happening

    THE M

  • The M

    Ok mostly i agree but is it not so that mostly a lot of people including my self have downloaded not legal VST synth software simply because the real thing needs mostly 5 udpates to function properly. ( have 3 cubase dwas Paiad in full and now there is an other version???
    I mean i use Spectrasonics vst and that’s a LEGAL working NO Bugs Synth.
    I do not need a quick fancy update in need a SUPER no problem running SYNTH!
    Do not mean that Alchemy is not but the most charge for updates that did not work from the first time in stalling and only focus on selling in stead of making it stable in the first place. Yes i do have all box versions and even paid more tho have those ( in stead of the Download version , easy for them to sell that all over the world…but no client contact personal i mean…)
    Then the price tags make it affordable it’s world wide selling… how much do you thing it will sell around the planet and if it is around 50,- to 100,- more will use it the legal way.
    Like students…. and the support is quality as well.
    Sorry that they have to close down but i do not know how much they spend on Marketing.
    Also i like to visit a STORE instead going on line , think about how the web is Killing the Business in the first place ill visit a store in Amsterdam MIDI and the people who work there have been Cut from the Software companies pure to make more profit….

    They are the ones that sell you a quality product and can reply on your personal needs
    And if your product is Quality they will sell you that what is best for you.

    And i am in the movie industry that’s the biggest illegal download industry but they are making it affordable to download a new movie so illegal downloads are less happening

    THE M

  • long john silver

    if some of you did your homework you’d know that they were making a profit and you wouldn’t jump to stupid conclusions,, anyways they’ve now made a quite descent profit by finally announcing that it’s apple who have bought them out, so expect the promised alchemy 2 sometime in the future unless your a windows users that is, that well have to wait and see about

  • long john silver

    if some of you did your homework you’d know that they were making a profit and you wouldn’t jump to stupid conclusions,, anyways they’ve now made a quite descent profit by finally announcing that it’s apple who have bought them out, so expect the promised alchemy 2 sometime in the future unless your a windows users that is, that well have to wait and see about

  • JJ

    Gotta love all the whiny comments about how software pirating *killed* Camel Audio,… guess what, whiny idi0ts?? Camel Audio was sold to Apple.. so i guess their business model must have been so bad.. and pirating made their business so unprofitable that Apple decided to spend big bucks buying a failing and unprofitable company, LOL

  • GD

    Gotta love all the whiny comments about how software pirating *killed* Camel Audio,… guess what, whiny idi0ts?? Camel Audio was sold to Apple.. so i guess their business model must have been so bad.. and pirating made their business so unprofitable that Apple decided to spend big bucks buying a failing and unprofitable company, LOL

  • frankz00

    People LOOOOOOOVE to blame piracy but the heart of the matter ALWAYS lies in pricing. The key is finding the price point that makes piracy irrelevant. Plenty of companies are surviving quite well on that model. I have NEVER paid full price for an IK Multimedia or a Waves product yet they’ve successfully managed to extract hundreds of dollars from me through aggressive pricing. The people that value the product WILL pay and EVERYONE has a price.

    Also, the mentality that a pirated good is a lost sale is pure fantasy. Absent a pirated good, the pirate would have NEVER paid. That’s why they are pirates in the first place…. They have ZERO intention of paying a dime. Think of the classic customer that stiffs his vendors on a regular basis…. That’s the same guy! Do not fool yourself into thinking a pirated good is a lost sale. The key is finding the customers that are WILLING to pay and finding out what that price is.

  • frankz00

    People LOOOOOOOVE to blame piracy but the heart of the matter ALWAYS lies in pricing. The key is finding the price point that makes piracy irrelevant. Plenty of companies are surviving quite well on that model. I have NEVER paid full price for an IK Multimedia or a Waves product yet they’ve successfully managed to extract hundreds of dollars from me through aggressive pricing. The people that value the product WILL pay and EVERYONE has a price.

    Also, the mentality that a pirated good is a lost sale is pure fantasy. Absent a pirated good, the pirate would have NEVER paid. That’s why they are pirates in the first place…. They have ZERO intention of paying a dime. Think of the classic customer that stiffs his vendors on a regular basis…. That’s the same guy! Do not fool yourself into thinking a pirated good is a lost sale. The key is finding the customers that are WILLING to pay and finding out what that price is.

  • Christina

    The rumour is that Camel Audio was bought out by Apple so that its developers could work on the GUI for Logic Pro X.

  • Christina

    The rumour is that Camel Audio was bought out by Apple so that its developers could work on the GUI for Logic Pro X.

  • Brad_Australia

    There is an “Alchemy” plugin which is now included with Garageband and which shows up as a missing plugin in Logic Pro X. I wonder if it’s the same one as mentioned here. Has Apple bought it or is this just a coincidence?

    As to the Piracy issue, I think some people are either still living in the the year 2000 and everything available online is free or they are just low life thieving scum. Yes, some of the software I have purchased a license to use seems a tad expensive but I bit the bullet and paid for it because it’s really great software but now I hope the Universe delivers a decent dose of comeuppance to those that pirate it because their criminal activity probably means higher prices for we honest users and it might possibly even threaten the existence of the companies that I purchased my licenses from. That translates into possible future problems for me and I don’t need any more than I already have.

    Regardless of the business models worth you are obligated to adhere to the licensing terms or else simply go without. To steal it just because you say their business model was not a good one or a viable one or whatever excuse you choose to use for stealing its still stealing and I hope you get caught.

  • Brad_Australia

    There is an “Alchemy” plugin which is now included with Garageband and which shows up as a missing plugin in Logic Pro X. I wonder if it’s the same one as mentioned here. Has Apple bought it or is this just a coincidence?

    As to the Piracy issue, I think some people are either still living in the the year 2000 and everything available online is free or they are just low life thieving scum. Yes, some of the software I have purchased a license to use seems a tad expensive but I bit the bullet and paid for it because it’s really great software but now I hope the Universe delivers a decent dose of comeuppance to those that pirate it because their criminal activity probably means higher prices for we honest users and it might possibly even threaten the existence of the companies that I purchased my licenses from. That translates into possible future problems for me and I don’t need any more than I already have.

    Regardless of the business models worth you are obligated to adhere to the licensing terms or else simply go without. To steal it just because you say their business model was not a good one or a viable one or whatever excuse you choose to use for stealing its still stealing and I hope you get caught.

  • Virgis Č.

    Hail Apple, Alchemy is reborn in Logic Pro X 10.2 update. Ofcourse it’s old news, but weird that no one in the earlies posts knew that CamelAudio was aqquired by Apple.

  • Virgis Č.

    Hail Apple, Alchemy is reborn in Logic Pro X 10.2 update. Ofcourse it’s old news, but weird that no one in the earlies posts knew that CamelAudio was aqquired by Apple.

  • MrRosario

    Where do I find this software?
    camelaudio.com not work

  • MrRosario

    Where do I find this software?
    camelaudio.com not work

  • Finlay Blackwood

    is it all gone, the hardware, is any one selling it, i’d like to get the download free. want a daw that works for me.

  • Finlay Blackwood

    is it all gone, the hardware, is any one selling it, i’d like to get the download free. want a daw that works for me.

  • Sebastian

    Can I buy Camelphat anywhere? For the love of god Apple, please make it available to buy soon.

  • Sebastian

    Can I buy Camelphat anywhere? For the love of god Apple, please make it available to buy soon.

  • I hope some hackers post Alchemy on PirateBay. I PAID for Alchemy, I downloaded the install files BEFORE they closed down, and now I’m trying to install it on a new system. It does NOTHING! Waste of money.

  • I hope some hackers post Alchemy on PirateBay. I PAID for Alchemy, I downloaded the install files BEFORE they closed down, and now I’m trying to install it on a new system. It does NOTHING! Waste of money.

  • Richard Garside

    None of the press releases say anything about piracy. There could be so many reasons they got acquired by Apple. You dont even know if they were struggling as a business. Why does a company have to die on its arse to be acquired? It could be all manor of reasons. I mean they must have been going around 10 years at least and piracy hasn’t really increased prolifically as of late in fact its probably decreasing a bit. There are also lots of different pricing models available to software companies to entice their users in to paying for premium content. Personally I think you guys are arguing about the wrong thing. The larger crime is a huge multinational company acquiring a small bunch of devs and most likely immediately dispanding their much loved and revered product range and essentially making the world a less interesting place. On a personal level I didnt get much out of Alchemy although I know its quite an innovate instrument. I did how ever love camel phat and will greatly miss it if it stop working for good…

  • Richard Garside

    None of the press releases say anything about piracy. There could be so many reasons they got acquired by Apple. You dont even know if they were struggling as a business. Why does a company have to die on its arse to be acquired? It could be all manor of reasons. I mean they must have been going around 10 years at least and piracy hasn’t really increased prolifically as of late in fact its probably decreasing a bit. There are also lots of different pricing models available to software companies to entice their users in to paying for premium content. Personally I think you guys are arguing about the wrong thing. The larger crime is a huge multinational company acquiring a small bunch of devs and most likely immediately dispanding their much loved and revered product range and essentially making the world a less interesting place. On a personal level I didnt get much out of Alchemy although I know its quite an innovate instrument. I did how ever love camel phat and will greatly miss it if it stop working for good…